Day 5 The John, Patsy and Burke's behavior/ The 12 days of JonBenet

[DrollForeignFaction]

In the 2000 Carol McKinley interview posted here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?42511-Media-Links-Only&p=12888041#post12888041

Interesting video. Especially the part in the middle (1:53) where she presses them on why it took them 4 months to talk to police. "Why not just go in? Forget the conditions?" John does not address the conditions set by their lawyers such as them not being interviewed separately, etc, but says they "couldn't exist after 6pm." Absurdly John claims that they both were so wiped out with grief that they went to bed at 5:30 every night (apparently the police stipulated they couldn't come in during the daytime? Never heard that?? Or does she mean that they wanted interviews that would go past 5:30?) Patsy (in her usual fashion) jumps in as John looks slightly irritated and says why couldn't it be 10am to 2pm or something. I mean, really? The police are desperate to talk to them but they refuse to talk to them between 10 and 2? I find that impossible to believe.
Carol points out that you'd think they could suck it up to, you know, find their daughter's killer but Patsy's insistent that it was just physically impossible for her to stay awake past 5:30 for those first four months. Then John jumps in and switches horses saying, "It's a matter of trust. It would be like the Romans telling the Christians, come down and help us feed the lions."

1. As usual, John is trying to highlight their Christianity as a dogwhistle - look at how religious we are and therefore see how unlikely it is that good Christians such as ourselves would be involved.
2. Cleverly, he is also identifying himself and Patsy as unfairly but piously persecuted people (see also: the various references they make to Job).
3. But wtf does that have to do with this story of poor, tired Ramseys who can't stay up past 5:30? It doesn't answer the question. It does seem to expose his real feelings about the interviews though. Christians (ie Ramseys) did not help Romans (ie police) feed lions (find a third party responsible for the murder), Romans fed Christians to lions. John knew that police were going to eat them alive with their questions. He's basically admitting he DOES have something to fear through interrogation, because if it was only an issue of bad timing but having nothing to hide, why would he consider going down to the police station a trap as his metaphor implies?

But of course we are talking about the Ramseys, who could not give a straight answer to any question even if you gave them ten rulers and a T square.

Bonus: here's a short outtake from the same interview where Patsy unconvincingly responds to CM's question of, (to paraphrase) what about people who think you've convinced yourself you didn't do it ("compartmentalized" it away to use John's favorite phrase). Something about her delivery reminds me of that video of her denying she was involved in the police interview. "I didn't do it, John Ramsey didn't do it and we didn't have a clue of...anybody...who did do it!" Kind of over-the-top faux-disbelief and pauses like she's desperately trying to think of something to say. It doesn't sound spontaneous and forceful like you'd expect a heartfelt denial would.

[video=vimeo;173769265]https://vimeo.com/173769265[/video]

 

[Miz Adventure]

Personally I wouldn't be laughing if somebody had just accused me of killing my daughter.

The couple were a pair of hams, totally starstruck by the bright lights and cameras, they couldn't get enough of interviews, as long as they were TV ones and not police ones.

Not all parents would be able to laugh and smile when describing the night they found their daughter brutally murdered by an 'intruder' in their own home, where she should have been safe.

 

[Ambitioned]

Personally I wouldn't be laughing if somebody had just accused me of killing my daughter.

The couple were a pair of hams, totally starstruck by the bright lights and cameras, they couldn't get enough of interviews, as long as they were TV ones and not police ones.

Not all parents would be able to laugh and smile when describing the night they found their daughter brutally murdered by an 'intruder' in their own home, where she should have been safe.

I agree 100% and I think that's why BR's interview was so off putting to many. His sister is dead and here he is smiling and smirking. I see the same smiling in BR as I do in PR. It's just creepy.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Eeeeeek! That's scarey!

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

In the 2000 Carol McKinley interview posted here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?42511-Media-Links-Only&p=12888041#post12888041

Interesting video. Especially the part in the middle (1:53) where she presses them on why it took them 4 months to talk to police. "Why not just go in? Forget the conditions?" John does not address the conditions set by their lawyers such as them not being interviewed separately, etc, but says they "couldn't exist after 6pm." Absurdly John claims that they both were so wiped out with grief that they went to bed at 5:30 every night (apparently the police stipulated they couldn't come in during the daytime? Never heard that?? Or does she mean that they wanted interviews that would go past 5:30?) Patsy (in her usual fashion) jumps in as John looks slightly irritated and says why couldn't it be 10am to 2pm or something. I mean, really? The police are desperate to talk to them but they refuse to talk to them between 10 and 2? I find that impossible to believe.
Carol points out that you'd think they could suck it up to, you know, find their daughter's killer but Patsy's insistent that it was just physically impossible for her to stay awake past 5:30 for those first four months. Then John jumps in and switches horses saying, "It's a matter of trust. It would be like the Romans telling the Christians, come down and help us feed the lions."

Patsy, Patsy, Patsy. That's what you said years after the fact when the heat was off and the police interviews were over but you were singing a different tune back in 1997 when you were in CYA mode.

Patsy Ramsey has expressed her frustration over this situation in a series of telephone interviews, KCNC-Channel 4 reported last night.
She told the Channel 4 reporter that she and her husband have nothing to hide. "I'm just sadly disappointed by what's happened," she was reported to have said. "I pray we can still work this out, that the killer of JonBenet will be found.
"I will sit with investigators around the clock if that's what they want," she said. "You'd think, if they believe we are guilty they'd want to talk with us." Ramsey said she and her husband cry themselves to sleep every night.
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon67.htm

I guess "around the clock" means between 10 and 2, no later than 5:30.

That quote implying the police must not suspect them because they don't want to talk to them is hilarious. Through your lawyers you set a bunch of ridiculous conditions for the interview basically prohibiting the police from treating you as a suspect, or even a standard witness, and following the advice of the FBI they declined your obstructionary demands for special treatment. Because you were suspects, the suspects.

It goes both ways - if you have nothing to hide and are so eager to speak, why not just drop the conditions? All the police want is to follow standard procedure, what's the problem? That's the question the Ramseys have always sidestepped with baloney about their bedtimes and Roman persecution.

 

[AndHence]

Why do you guys think Fleet went back to the basement after JonBenet's body had been brought up? He went back down there and picked up the tape that had just been taken off her mouth. What do you reckon?

 

[TeaTime]

Why do you guys think Fleet went back to the basement after JonBenet's body had been brought up? He went back down there and picked up the tape that had just been taken off her mouth. What do you reckon?

He was shocked that he didn't see her body when he opened the door earlier, and was dumbfounded that JR did. I think the tape looked familiar to him. FW was onto something.

 

[Sunshine4Me]

Why do you guys think Fleet went back to the basement after JonBenet's body had been brought up? He went back down there and picked up the tape that had just been taken off her mouth. What do you reckon?

Good question. A few thoughts cross my mind in regards to FW returning to the basement and picking up the tape. As one of the two people who found Jonbenet, FW saw the crime scene and body (staged though it was) in its original condition. Having seen the much too small tape on her mouth it would be natural for him to contemplate the size and what function it could possibly have served later after seeing that her body was safely in the hands of the authorities. Returning to the basement may have been a subconscious action, to see if anything else was out of place or didn't make sense like the tape over a childs mouth that couldn't possibly keep her quiet. While he may have consciously disobeyed the orders of the police, he may also have simply been in shock at that point, only able to think of the one thing, that it didn't add up and he had to see the tape again. If so, he was correct, the tape was absolutely off as was everything.

Another but less likely thought is that he could have seen the American Girl doll, and if the tape did come from that doll as I've heard speculated, he may have made the connection or come close. He could have returned to the basement to see the tape to jog his memory to figure out where he had seen a piece of tape that size and shape before. A feeling of dejavu. Although I would think if this were true and he did make the connection he would have told the police, so perhaps he just suspected he had seen a piece of tape that size and shape before but never could figure out where. But I find this thought less likely than my first thought.

 

[AndHence]

Good question. A few thoughts cross my mind in regards to FW returning to the basement and picking up the tape. As one of the two people who found Jonbenet, FW saw the crime scene and body (staged though it was) in its original condition. Having seen the much too small tape on her mouth it would be natural for him to contemplate the size and what function it could possibly have served later after seeing that her body was safely in the hands of the authorities. Returning to the basement may have been a subconscious action, to see if anything else was out of place or didn't make sense like the tape over a childs mouth that couldn't possibly keep her quiet. While he may have consciously disobeyed the orders of the police, he may also have simply been in shock at that point, only able to think of the one thing, that it didn't add up and he had to see the tape again. If so, he was correct, the tape was absolutely off as was everything.

Another but less likely thought is that he could have seen the American Girl doll, and if the tape did come from that doll as I've heard speculated, he may have made the connection or come close. He could have returned to the basement to see the tape to jog his memory to figure out where he had seen a piece of tape that size and shape before. A feeling of dejavu. Although I would think if this were true and he did make the connection he would have told the police, so perhaps he just suspected he had seen a piece of tape that size and shape before but never could figure out where. But I find this thought less likely than my first thought.

Good point about the tape. If an intruder were really attempting to silence a victim, they'd wrap the tape completely around the person's face and backside of their head. The tape to me is the most obvious sign of staging because it was clearly applied when JonBenet was already dead or dying, hence the perfect lip marks on the tape.

 

[Meara]

Personally I wouldn't be laughing if somebody had just accused me of killing my daughter.

The couple were a pair of hams, totally starstruck by the bright lights and cameras, they couldn't get enough of interviews, as long as they were TV ones and not police ones.

Not all parents would be able to laugh and smile when describing the night they found their daughter brutally murdered by an 'intruder' in their own home, where she should have been safe.

Miz A, I'm comparing this 2000 interview and BR's Dr. Phil interviews with portions of the CBS special I watched again today. Twenty years on, and both Judith Phillips and Kim Archuleta were in tears, recalling JonBenet's murder and its aftermath. :notgood: Nothing like heartfelt response to disclose what is not.

 

[Miz Adventure]

And FW could have returned to the basement to take another look - just to see if it could have been possible for him to have overlooked seeing the body of JBR in there when he first looked.

He probably came away more confounded than ever. Some things would not have added up. Why was Patsy still wearing the same clothes that she had worn the day before? The ransom note - with all the hallmarks of Patsy on it?

The truth probably dawned on him like a ton of bricks.

 

[buggiegirl]

Why do you guys think Fleet went back to the basement after JonBenet's body had been brought up? He went back down there and picked up the tape that had just been taken off her mouth. What do you reckon?

I think the finding of the body didn't sit well with him, he probably knew something felt off about either John's reaction or the immediacy with which he saw the body in the dark, or the fact that Fleet didn't see anything when he checked previously. Or it could be something innocuous too, like having just seen the dead body of a girl his daughter's age and trying to go back down to wrap his mind around it. But more likely that he just got a feeling something was OFF.

 

[AndHence]

I think the finding of the body didn't sit well with him, he probably knew something felt off about either John's reaction or the immediacy with which he saw the body in the dark, or the fact that Fleet didn't see anything when he checked previously. Or it could be something innocuous too, like having just seen the dead body of a girl his daughter's age and trying to go back down to wrap his mind around it. But more likely that he just got a feeling something was OFF.

I'm always reminded of Officer French's remarks to Officer Reichenbach shortly after arriving at the Ramsey residence that "something didn't seem right."

 

[Tadpole12]

In the 2000 Carol McKinley interview posted here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?42511-Media-Links-Only&p=12888041#post12888041

Interesting video. Especially the part in the middle (1:53) where she presses them on why it took them 4 months to talk to police. "Why not just go in? Forget the conditions?" John does not address the conditions set by their lawyers such as them not being interviewed separately, etc, but says they "couldn't exist after 6pm." Absurdly John claims that they both were so wiped out with grief that they went to bed at 5:30 every night (apparently the police stipulated they couldn't come in during the daytime? Never heard that?? Or does she mean that they wanted interviews that would go past 5:30?) Patsy (in her usual fashion) jumps in as John looks slightly irritated and says why couldn't it be 10am to 2pm or something. I mean, really? The police are desperate to talk to them but they refuse to talk to them between 10 and 2? I find that impossible to believe.
Carol points out that you'd think they could suck it up to, you know, find their daughter's killer but Patsy's insistent that it was just physically impossible for her to stay awake past 5:30 for those first four months. Then John jumps in and switches horses saying, "It's a matter of trust. It would be like the Romans telling the Christians, come down and help us feed the lions."

1. As usual, John is trying to highlight their Christianity as a dogwhistle - look at how religious we are and therefore see how unlikely it is that good Christians such as ourselves would be involved.
2. Cleverly, he is also identifying himself and Patsy as unfairly but piously persecuted people (see also: the various references they make to Job).
3. But wtf does that have to do with this story of poor, tired Ramseys who can't stay up past 5:30? It doesn't answer the question. It does seem to expose his real feelings about the interviews though. Christians (ie Ramseys) did not help Romans (ie police) feed lions (find a third party responsible for the murder), Romans fed Christians to lions. John knew that police were going to eat them alive with their questions. He's basically admitting he DOES have something to fear through interrogation, because if it was only an issue of bad timing but having nothing to hide, why would he consider going down to the police station a trap as his metaphor implies?

But of course we are talking about the Ramseys, who could not give a straight answer to any question even if you gave them ten rulers and a T square.

Bonus: here's a short outtake from the same interview where Patsy unconvincingly responds to CM's question of, (to paraphrase) what about people who think you've convinced yourself you didn't do it ("compartmentalized" it away to use John's favorite phrase). Something about her delivery reminds me of that video of her denying she was involved in the police interview. "I didn't do it, John Ramsey didn't do it and we didn't have a clue of...anybody...who did do it!" Kind of over-the-top faux-disbelief and pauses like she's desperately trying to think of something to say. It doesn't sound spontaneous and forceful like you'd expect a heartfelt denial would.

[video=vimeo;173769265]https://vimeo.com/173769265[/video]

DFF

PR's reply to the question of a cover-up
is inaudible for me?
What does she say?


https://vimeo.com/173765902
@2:40

CM: No possibility you covered up a murder together?

PR: I like him but you know
my ---- and my kid wants to talk about it?

 

[EtherealMoonRose]

@Tadpole

She says "I like him, but you know, lay a hand on my kid and let's talk about it."

 

[Userid]

I can understand why FW would go back to the cellar room, but I still have a hard time understanding why he would actually pick up the duct tape. I'm not saying he's involved or anything, but I honestly just can't understand that, other than to say he simply wasn't thinking.

I think anyone who checked that very spot initially would have to go back and see how in the world they missed the body there, but wouldn't you just slightly enter the room and look? It makes me wonder what else he handled -- like the blanket? Wasn't the tape adhered to the blanket after JR removed it?

 

[TeaTime]

I think FW saw JR fidgeting with a little piece of tape in the train room right before the discovery and when he saw it in the WC, he picked it up, not knowing that JR had just pressed it to JBR's mouth. As in "WTH is going on here? What did I just see and why didn't I see her in that room when I looked in there?"

I bet the hair on the back of his neck stood up.

 

[Cmessier]

Thanks, Kannzz, for finding that for me!

 

[Cmessier]

It is so obviously rehearsed. It jumped out at me, too.
This is the only video I've been able to find of that:
https://youtu.be/6s1Dyl8QxXQ

To me, and forgive me if this has been mentioned here before but I havent seen anyone bring it up, one of the most telling moments came in their first interview on CNN.

When Patsy says "keep your babies close".......most footage of that is zoomed in on her face. But there is video of that where it shows both of them, and JR mouths it silently as she says it. It is clearly rehearsed and clearly indicates to me they have been in on the whole thing together.

I'm a big time BDI. I was before all these specials and the recent Dr Phil show only cemented my belief.

Oooh, can you link that?

Thanks for finding that for me!!!

 

[Teresa]

So many things feel wrong.. Patsy and John should have been tearing the house apart and screaming for JonBenet.Burke would have been glued to me. I may have called my friends and neighbors to search for my child. I would have called the police and made sure they collected evidence, dust everything. I would have been glued to the phone waiting. I would be clinging to my husband in fear. I would have been talking the police heads off answering everything and anything. I would never leave my child willingly once found dead. The police would have kicked me out screaming. John wanting to book is horrible and Wrong! Oh man, I could go on forever!!