Day Number 1 What Convinces You There Was No Intruder/12 Days of JonBenet

[necnaw]

Start doing your own research. Depending on where you go you will only get what people want you to know.
The evidence I discussed is real and out there to find.
There is more and more real evidence being released. And more and more players who have nothing invested in the case who are reviewing it and showing the truth of the evidence.
It is absolutely true that the Boulder police lied and released untruths as facts early on.
And you have to throw that all out and look at the evidence clearly and without bias.




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I have done a lot of my own research, that's why I am asking where you are viewing this evidence. Are you able to tell me?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

1. The ransom note.
2. The 911 call.
3. The Ramsey's first accounts of what happened when they returned from The White's party.
4. John Ramsey hustling Burke out of the house before he could be questioned by LE.
5. The discovery of the body.
6. John Ramsey calling his pilot to arrange a flight to Georgia hours after finding his daughter dead in the basement... because he had an important business meeting?! WTF?!
7. Lies, lies, lies and more lies.

 

[rojamom]

The bogus note implicates Patsy and the lack of a realistic point of entry seems to exclude anyone outside the house unless they had a key. The police video of the window from that morning has me convinced no one came in through that window, but who outside the Ramsey family would have a key who hasn't been investigated?

Overall, it's the sheer implausibility of everything this intruder must have done that gets me. Talk about an idiot savant. He commits the crime of the century without leaving a trace besides one of six highly degraded incomplete touch DNA samples on her clothing, gets in and out like a ghost...but does every convoluted unnecessary thing he can think of during the hours spent in the house. After loosely binding her, putting tape over her mouth and stun gunning her he feeds his victim pineapple from a bowl that somehow already has her brother and mother's fingerprints on it. He sits down to read their bible and circle a certain passage and moves some Kleenex boxes and whatever else the Ramseys accused him of messing with. Like the flashlight: he takes it from the drawer in the hall where it was kept and moves it a few feet over to the kitchen table, wiping it for prints inside and outside (because he had to remove the batteries with his bare hands that night?) - except wasn't most of his crime committed in the dark basement anyway? If you believe Patsy's initial statement that she changed JB into her red turtleneck before bed, he must have changed her back into the shirt she wore to the Whites' and left the old one on the bathroom sink. Of course Patsy changed her story later. When does he leave his entirely useless ransom note on the spiral stairs? Not before he abducts JB from her bed. He would have to hop over it in the middle of the night holding a child. The police questioned if Patsy could hop over the note unencumbered in daylight! If he did it after killing JB, does that mean he murdered her in the basement, ran upstairs to place the note, then went back down to the basement to climb out the window (without disturbing any spiderwebs)? And for that matter, we know he replaced her underwear. Did he grab a pair of underwear from her drawer, hide the rest of the package somewhere in the house for some reason, then abduct JB? Or does he get down the basement, murder her, decide he wants to clean her up and replace her underwear, and run back upstairs to find a pair. At some point he stops to get JB's blanket out of the dryer. Why bother to do any of that? I could expound on this subject for days but you get the picture.

And then there's the issue of motive. We have a kidnapper who doesn't kidnap but does murder and molest. He leaves a ransom note threatening to withhold her body for "proper burial" and then leaves her body in the basement! Never tries to collect and barely asked for anything anyway. We have a murderous pedophile who gets his jollies with a paintbrush (seriously?) and cares for the victim after she dies, cleaning and redressing her and wrapping her up in a blanket to look like she's sleeping when she's found. And we have a murderer who murders twice: first with a blow to the head and then when that didn't finish her off (or produce any visible damage) he takes the time to seek out materials to stage a bizarre, amateurish & highly visible secondary mode of death with the "garrote" instead of just bopping her on the head again and getting it over with. If a kidnapping gone wrong scenario, she had to have died accidentally, and you don't get garroted accidentally, so why take the time to throw that in? If it's a pedophile, why do both when either one would be sufficient? And if it's a pedophile, why go through the elaborate kidnapping ruse? Strangers don't stage, people close to the victim stage to deflect attention. And that has been the Ramseys' MO since day one: deflect, distance themselves, obfuscate.

Wow -- GREAT post packed with excellent points!

 

[nona's mum]

The ransom note - you're not gonna convince me a "kidnapper" sat for approx 30 mins writing war and peace. The handwriting. The phraseology is so cliche and bizarre. Who does a practice run?
The fact the "kidnapper" didn't actually kidnap JB
The behaviours - trying to catch a flight, lawyering up, refusing to help police
In my opinion there is simply no evidence of an intruder - no dna, no fingerprints etc. All evidence - hairs, fibres and even the implements used, points to the Ramsey's - a kidnapper would not have spent time finding stuff to make a garrotte - he'd either have taken one or used something more easily available - her clothing or his hands

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The ransom note - you're not gonna convince me a "kidnapper" sat for approx 30 mins writing war and peace. The handwriting. The phraseology is so cliche and bizarre. Who does a practice run?
The fact the "kidnapper" didn't actually kidnap JB
The behaviours - trying to catch a flight, lawyering up, refusing to help police
In my opinion there is simply no evidence of an intruder - no dna, no fingerprints etc. All evidence - hairs, fibres and even the implements used, points to the Ramsey's - a kidnapper would not have spent time finding stuff to make a garrotte - he'd either have taken one or used something more easily available - her clothing or his hands

There is Dna. It is in two different articles of clothing and where someone would grab her clothes to pull them off.
The DNA is in codis and hopefully will be tested over and over to find a match.
They can know search for familiar DNA something they could not do the last time they tested it.
They can look at heritage of the person who left it.
We will see. I feel like the next 5 years will make a huge difference in this case.


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[mrssunshine]

The ransom note! The ransom note! No killer/kidnapper/stranger is writing that note.

It's the sticking piece for me that someone inside that house with lots of time on their hands wrote that note.

 

[necnaw]

There is Dna. It is in two different articles of clothing and where someone would grab her clothes to pull them off.
The DNA is in codis and hopefully will be tested over and over to find a match.
They can know search for familiar DNA something they could not do the last time they tested it.
They can look at heritage of the person who left it.
We will see. I feel like the next 5 years will make a huge difference in this case.


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The DNA is touch DNA, there is no DNA directly linking an intruder to the crime scene. No foreign fibers, no hair, no fingerprints, nothing. Touch DNA is common, particularly on unwashed and clean from factory clothing. Without a source it has no real meaning and is not strong enough to prove any intruder or Ramsey innocence.

 

[nona's mum]

There is Dna. It is in two different articles of clothing and where someone would grab her clothes to pull them off.
The DNA is in codis and hopefully will be tested over and over to find a match.
They can know search for familiar DNA something they could not do the last time they tested it.
They can look at heritage of the person who left it.
We will see. I feel like the next 5 years will make a huge difference in this case.


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Have you done any research re touch DNA? It's essentially meaningless in this case. Now I may be wrong in the way I explain this but as I understand it, it's like you and I shaking hands. I'd leave touch DNA on your hand, you then touch your clothes and transfer my DNA to your clothes. Does that mean if you turn up dead, and they found my DNA on your clothes that I killed you? No. That DNA on JBs underwear most likely came from somewhere in the manufacturing/retail process, imo

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I had thought it was a partial page. Like that it was ripped out but the top left corner remained in the pad.
Was the practice note a full page with just the start written in?

That's my understanding of it. I've never seen any sources saying it was a partial page.
From Steve Thomas's book:

Just before the big briefing was to begin, Kithcart reviewed the tablets. They seemed ordinary enough, apparently the same kind of paper on which the ransom note had been written. He flipped through the one bearing the word Patsy and, in the middle, noticed a page with a partial salutation written by a black felt-tip pen.

Mr. and Mrs. I

The single vertical line seemed as if it could be the downstroke that would start the capital letter R. To Kithcart it looked like the start of another ransom note, and it was in a tablet belonging to the mother of the missing child. How did it get in there? He quickly headed toward the conference room, thinking that perhaps something more than a kidnapping was at work, but before he could share his find, the code Black came in.

This is from Kolar's book. Thomas had the same info but I already had this handy:

The next sequence of pages, 17 through 25, were missing and had been torn from the pad and were never found by police. The "practice note," discovered by Kithcart, was located on page 26. Ubowski observed on page 26 signs of ink bleed-through from the missing 25th page.
The perforated tabs at the top of the sheets of paper on which the ransom note had been written were matched to the torn tabs remaining on the notepad. Comparison of the torn segments of the 3-page ransom note matched the missing pages 27, 28, and 29. To investigators, it appeared that at least one, and perhaps two attempts had been made at starting a ransom note on pages 25 and 26 before the final product was completed on pages 27 through 29.

And just because it pertains to the practice note, I came across this while looking for the rest of the info. Pam Griffin is going to be interviewed in the Investigation Discovery special, I wonder if they'll ask her about this. Also from Thomas:

Frank Coffman, a local writer, had told me that Pam Griffin, a friend of Patsy Ramsey's from kiddie pageant circles, claimed Patsy had told her about writing the so-called practice note for some innocent reason. I jumped at the possiblity that a suspect had admitted to a third party that she had written it. It was a huge development, and I brought it up promptly.
DA investigator Lou Smit coughed, then acknowledged that he had received the same information some time earlier. "I was going to write a report about that," he said.

 

[nona's mum]

Is it true she boasted about being ambidextrous? I'm sure I read that somewhere!

 

[Tadpole12]

Where are your reviewing your evidence from, none of this matches with anything I have read about the case whatsoever. - necnaw

a staunch IDI perspective

If you're a newbie

here's some resources ...





The books:
ST's ITMI:
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/1250054796...f_rd_r=MS0NTEV2EXSDAEPE23SP#reader_1250054796
PMPT:
https://www.amazon.ca/Perfect-Murder-Town-Uncensored-JonBenet/dp/0061096962#reader_0061096962

******
Websites:

acandyrose:

http://www.acandyrose.com/
pbworks:
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682477/FrontPage
dailycameranews archive:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/

 

[UKGuy]

That's my understanding of it. I've never seen any sources saying it was a partial page.
From Steve Thomas's book:

This is from Kolar's book. Thomas had the same info but I already had this handy:

And just because it pertains to the practice note, I came across this while looking for the rest of the info. Pam Griffin is going to be interviewed in the Investigation Discovery special, I wonder if they'll ask her about this. Also from Thomas:

DrollForeignFaction

Frank Coffman, a local writer, had told me that Pam Griffin, a friend of Patsy Ramsey's from kiddie pageant circles, claimed Patsy had told her about writing the so-called practice note for some innocent reason. I jumped at the possiblity that a suspect had admitted to a third party that she had written it. It was a huge development, and I brought it up promptly.
DA investigator Lou Smit coughed, then acknowledged that he had received the same information some time earlier. "I was going to write a report about that," he said.

BBM:You have to wonder if he would have written the report if the subject had not been brought to Lou Smit's attention?

.

 

[Airasae]

That's my understanding of it. I've never seen any sources saying it was a partial page.
From Steve Thomas's book:

This is from Kolar's book. Thomas had the same info but I already had this handy:

And just because it pertains to the practice note, I came across this while looking for the rest of the info. Pam Griffin is going to be interviewed in the Investigation Discovery special, I wonder if they'll ask her about this. Also from Thomas:

Thank you. I wonder how the Ramsey's missed that page.

I need to get my hands on that book. I've been trying to find a kindle or ebook version with out luck. I may have to bite the bullet and go hard copy.

 

[Tadpole12]

Frank Coffman, a local writer, had told me that Pam Griffin, a friend of Patsy Ramsey's from kiddie pageant circles, claimed Patsy had told her about writing the so-called practice note for some innocent reason. I jumped at the possiblity that a suspect had admitted to a third party that she had written it. It was a huge development, and I brought it up promptly.
DA investigator Lou Smit coughed, then acknowledged that he had received the same information some time earlier. "I was going to write a report about that," he said.


********************

Wow.

 

[UKGuy]

Frank Coffman, a local writer, had told me that Pam Griffin, a friend of Patsy Ramsey's from kiddie pageant circles, claimed Patsy had told her about writing the so-called practice note for some innocent reason. I jumped at the possiblity that a suspect had admitted to a third party that she had written it. It was a huge development, and I brought it up promptly.
DA investigator Lou Smit coughed, then acknowledged that he had received the same information some time earlier. "I was going to write a report about that," he said.


********************

Wow.

Tadpole12.
All these red flags, size-12's, tiara, reports, etc. All suggest the case is BDI and whenever anything popped up that would probably lead to the truth, it was, cough, cough, quietly dropped.

I'll write a report on that, LOL.

.

 

[reintarnation]

Thank you. I wonder how the Ramsey's missed that page.

I need to get my hands on that book. I've been trying to find a kindle or ebook version with out luck. I may have to bite the bullet and go hard copy.

I was able to find the copy I read at the library, but then ended up buying it as well. Totally worth it!

 

[cattlekate]

The ransom note.

The note written with Patsy's handwriting and filled with her drama-recital, exclamation-emphasized, delusional, borderline-coherent, snarky southern belle attitude. The note written in Patsy's over-the-top, chintz filled, Christmas-tree-on-every-floor, cluttered, messy, garish pop-topped house on Boulder's The Hill.

The note and the delay in its release, thanks to the Ramsey's connected, high-powered law firm and thanks to Boulder law enforcement kowtowing to political power and a billion plus business on Pearl Street. The note was released, FINALLY, in September, 1997. That was after nine months of Boulder Daily Camera, Rocky Mountain News, Denver Post, KHOW Peter Boyles and other media constantly asking and Boulder LE stalling. Twenty years later, that 9 month stall may not seem too much, but back then, when we parents feared there was a murderer on the loose, the wait was interminable.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

Thank you. I wonder how the Ramsey's missed that page.

I need to get my hands on that book. I've been trying to find a kindle or ebook version with out luck. I may have to bite the bullet and go hard copy.

Really? I have it on my kindle. You can get the kindle edition for $7.99 on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/JonBenet-Ins...3464701&sr=8-1&keywords=steve+thomas+jonbenet

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

Is there a book specifically looking into the psychology of PR?

 

[Meryl12]

Is there a book specifically looking into the psychology of PR?

If there isn't there should be. :cuckoo: