DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #13

[rkf]

I wasn't very clear....a hit would be done fairly quickly and with NO phone calls. If a hit there would be IMO: no call Wednesday. No pizza. No message left to NG. No spending the night. No calls to AIW, accountant, sister, bank manager or JW.
A hitman would come in, do his business and leave during the night. AllIn our next post “10 Ways to know your wife” We will move out of this sexual arena and into getting to know your wife better.

of these communications were very risky. DW was willing to risk staying in the home because he wanted money

I agree except if The extra money was SS' idea as a way to buy time. Not likely, but possible.

 

[rkf]

I'm late on this reply but he probably assumed SS was not at home, since presumably if he were, he would have taken the money from JW personally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why wouldn't SS have had JW bring the money to him wherever he was?

 

[rkf]

The call to NG asking her to contact Vera's family makes absolutely no sense. Vera's husband has said he started calling her phone at 5 PM on Wednesday and she wasn't answering. Yet, when he went to the house on Thursday, SS phoned him and told him Vera had spent the night and all was okay. That begs the question as to how he would know SS' voice or was it someone posing as SS.

JMO

Also, why wouldn't SS have called VF's husband directly Wednesday night when he couldn't reach NG? I think SS was trying to send a message to NG. SS obviously had VF's husband's phone number. Even if Mr. F. (I don't remember his initials) didn't speak perfect English, SS could have left a message on his phone.

 

[rkf]

If I was LE, I'd look closely at anyone who came out of the woodwork to post comments on news stories about their close relationship to the family, and then bad-mouthed them publicly on social media. Just sayin'...

Take them in on lesser charges and they lawyer up and shut up. Also, might get bail. Compromises case to arrest, release, arrest again. More leverage to deal when make the most serious charges. Reasonable that investigators waiting for loot to surface, tests, working overtime with the bits and pieces, from receipts to bank bands to fibers and hair, to connect the dots.
I do value Garrett's opinion (any veteran FBI with a solid background in working homicides) and, although I don't think DW himself can reflect, even on his own simmering anger long enough to control his actions or to plan, he could have been engaged sub-contracted.
Following through on a hit theory, can we attempt a badly educated guess about WHY and WHO? I don't mean a name, or one of the actual cast members, but genus as in biz rival, angry neighbor, online crazy...oh, and why now?
No floating dumb theories or creating false buzz about the victims.
What class of person for what reason wants to torture and then kill ANY prominent CEO with any passionate avocation (could be golfing), a measure of wealth, a happy life, popular and well respected...We'd assume a secretary or gardener is collateral damage.
And the CEO's beloved college-aged son is home for the weekend and gets the brunt of the attack.

Amateur hit is tough because the range of motives can be tremendous. A total nut-cake can hold a delusional grudge against a 90 year ld woman she thinks her husband is plotting to leave her for OR a cold fish can rape pillage and plunder to lay hands on a deed to a rich farmer's land.

I do have to say, if this was not about money why wait for the 40k to put in motion the denouement. Was the 40 k just icing on the cake?

 

[rkf]

Good question. We noticed in the 20/20 interview, she keeps her phone really close.

Yeah, but couldn't be bothered to answer or respond to VM when her boss calls the night after she spent the day w/him at the dojo. She said his voice sounded tense when she listened on Thursday morning. Do phone records show when someone listens to a voicemail message?

 

[rkf]

While scouring court records, I noticed on one that he actually did hold a job, at Metal Fab Inc, in 2008...after he left AIW.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2095858-wint-protection-order.html#document/p1

I also heard somewhere in a news report that DW was working at Home Depot. Did anyone else hear that? I have no idea where this was, so can't provide link. (passing the salt shaker)

 

[corundogs]

Yeah, but couldn't be bothered to answer or respond to VM when her boss calls the night after she spent the day w/him at the dojo. She said his voice sounded tense when she listened on Thursday morning. Do phone records show when someone listens to a voicemail message?

He called around 9:30 pm. He is not her boss - she works for him, but she is not an employee.

That is definitely after hours. Phone calls after 9pm are unacceptable, IMO. There comes a time when it is acceptable for people to be on their own time. She was not working for him the next day, so it wasn't a change of plans for that.

I see nothing wrong with her not answering that call and not listening to the VM the next day.

 

[Elley Mae]

I also heard somewhere in a news report that DW was working at Home Depot. Did anyone else hear that? I have no idea where this was, so can't provide link. (passing the salt shaker)

never saw it in print but IIRC thought it was said here. jmo idk

go to post #370

 

[mjohns28]

I do think, though, that Savvas and Amy were trying to get out a message(s) through their calls and texts, but could only do it in the most vague of ways so as not to the rouse suspicion of their captor(s). I especially feel that there was one moment when things could have gone a different way, and that was when Vera's husband came to the house on Thursday morning. I think he knew it was completely outside of the norm that his wife would have stayed over at the Savapolous' house on Wednesday night. She was a cleaner, though a housekeeping service, not a live-in housekeeper. Even if her husband was told that her phone wasn't charged, etc., he was probably still wondering what was going on, so much so that he came to the house to try to find her the next morning. I believe something did not feel right to him and he was, naturally, concerned for her welfare. Some part of him, probably, still felt like something did not feel right even when he spoke with Savvas, who told him that Vera was with Amy at the hospital but, and this is me just being speculative, I think it's hard to question what is being told to you by someone who is, ultimately, your wife's employer. What if his concern was misplaced, and she really was helping out the family and with Amy, and he called the police? Would the Savapolous' be angry with him for that, think he over-reacted, and his wife would lose her job? Perhaps he put all that concern and worry out of his mind, told himself that his wife was a nice person, trying to help out this family when they needed her, and that he was being silly and was sure she would call him when everything settled down. As said above, hindsight is 20/20 and I imagine the poor husband is just wracked with guilt for not having followed his gut and called the police.

While I don't think they were trying to get the message out, I completely agree with your take on VF's husband.

I have to agree with you. The concept of trying to discretely signal for help is probably largely limited to TV shows and movies. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't think that was the intent behind any of their communications. I think they were simply cooperating with DW hoping to stay alive.

 

[Elley Mae]

I also heard somewhere in a news report that DW was working at Home Depot. Did anyone else hear that? I have no idea where this was, so can't provide link. (passing the salt shaker)

Public records indicate Wint worked for Home Depot. A manager at a Home Depot in D.C. said he could not comment on whether Wint ever worked there. He instead referred all questions to the company's corporate offices, which said they couldn't find anyone by Wint's name in their records.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/suspect-in-d-c-familys-brutal-murder-may-be-in-new-york-city/

 

[BondGirl]

Just K, I just want to say how much I appreciate your sleuthing. A lot of the "sleuthing" that goes on here is just commenting and speculating, but you actually learn facts that are super-interesting and potentially very relevant. For that, I am very appreciative!

Exactly, which is why I don't get why the conversation isn't discussing this and has gone back to comments and speculation. Sad.

 

[dish1234]

Plus, in later interviews, she's made it a point to say she tried calling VF repeatedly, but she never called VF's husband to relay SS' message? Or to see if he'd been able to reach her when she (NG) could not? Would love to see NG's phone records to see how her stories match up. I'd be surprised if LE doesn't have a warrant for that still under seal. If so, why hasn't it been released like the others?

We don't know if Gutierrez called Vera's husband or not, I don't think, because I don't think that has ever been put out there by the media. And, if she did, it would have had to have been the next morning/Thursday anyway, because that's when she checked her phone and retrieved the voicemail from Savvas from the previous night which included the information that Vera was staying over, that Vera's phone was not charged, etc. Getting that voicemail was what prompted her to start trying to call Vera, Amy, etc. She wasn't calling or texting anyone about this the night before/Wednesday, because, to her, everything was fine. To her, Vera wasn't still at the Savopouloses' house/has gone home, and nothing was amiss.

LE wouldn't have to get a warrant to search Gutierrez's phone if she willing handed it over to them/was cooperating with them fully.

I don't want to add speculation and misinformation, but didn't Gutierrez hear about the fire at the house because Savvas' mother called her? I feel like read that somewhere in one of the news reports but now I can't find it. I only ask because if that was the case, I think that again shows that she might have been close to the S family. I mean, my mother doesn't have my housekeeper's number; she doesn't even know her name. But, perhaps it's possible that Gutierrez cleaned for them both.

I feel there is just so, so, so much that we know nothing about when it comes to these murders. I feel like so much more is going to be revealed as time goes on. I don't mean in relationship to Gutierrez in particular, but overall, as more information comes out from LE and as they build their case.

 

[i.b.nora]

I think there are two separate businesses with very similar names. Metal Fab Inc and Metal Fabulous seem to be two different businesses. Metal Fab Inc has offices all over the nation but they seem to have a Frederick Maryland location.
https://www.google.com/search?q=metal+fab+inc+md&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

The Metal Fab Inc company that you refer to is actually spelled metLfab (http://www.metlfab.com) Many of the listings for it refer to it incorrectly as well. The sign on their building in Frederick is spelled METLFAB, INC. (in giant letters).

Court documents in Maryland, however, indicate that MetalFab, Inc and Metal Fabulous are likely one and the same as they have shared the same address for a number of years. And, names associated with both have remained the same.

 

[jjenny]

I have to agree with you. The concept of trying to discretely signal for help is probably largely limited to TV shows and movies. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't think that was the intent behind any of their communications. I think they were simply cooperating with DW hoping to stay alive.

It doesn't just happen in the TV shows. Recently a woman got help by putting "call 911" on her pizza order.

 

[rkf]

Especially if the entire house was dark except for the front porch light. No way, most delivery drivers would make the drop. In the DC area both Pizza delivery people and taxi drivers are often targeted for robberies. Criminals call and have a delivery or a pick up call to a vacant home.

He probably felt pretty safe in that neighborhood. And there was an envelope with the tip in it on the front porch, so probably felt it was okay to leave the pizza.

 

[yepitsme]

It doesn't just happen in the TV shows. Recently a woman got help by putting "call 911" on her pizza order.

SS would have succeeded in sending a signal if thats what he wanted to do. Instead he was heard repeatedly reassuring anyone who raised a question. There was a story for everything. Yes, I'm sure he had to say these things and he could have said them and also sent a signal. but he didn't. The general impression is pretty clear -- he believed that the best way to save his son's life was to cooperate and that if teh police came they would be killed.

 

[dish1234]

I have to agree with you. The concept of trying to discretely signal for help is probably largely limited to TV shows and movies. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just don't think that was the intent behind any of their communications. I think they were simply cooperating with DW hoping to stay alive.

We can all have a differing take on it, since it's always going to be speculative, since anyone who could confirm is now dead. :-(

My reasoning for thinking Savvas was trying to send a message of distress was there would have been no real reason for him to have called Guitterez Wednesday night as she wasn't scheduled to come clean their place the next day anyway, if the reason for the call was because the perp(s) were asking if anyone else was scheduled to show up at the house. She would not have stumbled upon anything; she wasn't going to be there.

But, perhaps the perp(s) asked if anyone was going to notice that Vera was still there/hadn't left/made it home. Maybe that is what prompted the calls to NG, to keep anyone who might have been suspicious about Vera being "missing" less inclined to call the cops.

Like the other poster said, I wish that night, Wednesday night, when Vera hadn't called her husband to pick her up from the bus stop (she didn't drive), her husband had called the police to say that he was worried about her, that this was not like her to not call him, that he was trying her cell but it was going directly to v/m, etc. That is now all hindsight of course...and even a call like that to police (which would have been Montgomery County, Md., not D.C.) might not have done anything to alter the course of events anyway.

I know that these posts perhaps seem like going back in time/being speculative, but I don't spend a ton of time on Websleuths, and my posting about this case today comes from watching the 20/20 report last night. So, apologies to those who are totally up-to-speed on this case.

 

[Carolyn1963]

i

We don't know if Gutierrez called Vera's husband or not, I don't think, because I don't think that has ever been put out there by the media. And, if she did, it would have had to have been the next morning/Thursday anyway, because that's when she checked her phone and retrieved the voicemail from Savvas from the previous night which included the information that Vera was staying over, that Vera's phone was not charged, etc. Getting that voicemail was what prompted her to start trying to call Vera, Amy, etc. She wasn't calling or texting anyone about this the night before/Wednesday, because, to her, everything was fine. To her, Vera wasn't still at the Savopouloses' house/has gone home, and nothing was amiss.

LE wouldn't have to get a warrant to search Gutierrez's phone if she willing handed it over to them/was cooperating with them fully.

I don't want to add speculation and misinformation, but didn't Gutierrez hear about the fire at the house because Savvas' mother called her? I feel like read that somewhere in one of the news reports but now I can't find it. I only ask because if that was the case, I think that again shows that she might have been close to the S family. I mean, my mother doesn't have my housekeeper's number; she doesn't even know her name. But, perhaps it's possible that Gutierrez cleaned for them both.

I feel there is just so, so, so much that we know nothing about when it comes to these murders. I feel like so much more is going to be revealed as time goes on. I don't mean in relationship to Gutierrez in particular, but overall, as more information comes out from LE and as they build their case.

Yes. NG received a call from SS mom. It was listed in GMA timeline. Perhaps, NG used to clean for his parents when they lived in DC.

https://gma.yahoo.com/timeline-myst...ire-raise-045100957--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[FelicityLemon]

Young Philip has been described by many as being exceptionally mature and well-spoken for his age.

A child with a strong sense of self who has the ability to say 'no' to something they know is wrong, sensing when a stranger doesn't have their best interest in mind...

I could totally imagine an old-soul 10-year old child or precocious child younger than that speaking to an adult stranger that way. A secure, self-confident child could stick up for themselves like that, or it could also be a symptom of the concussion.

AS' comment saying he was scheduled to return to school on Wednesday and that she hoped it would be different this time. I don't know what she meant it to be different from, but maybe he was having some concussion-related issues? Anger and temper can be symptoms and he certainly sounded angry to me.

http://www.cdc.gov/concussion/pdf/Facts_about_Concussion_TBI-a.pdf

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah, but couldn't be bothered to answer or respond to VM when her boss calls the night after she spent the day w/him at the dojo. She said his voice sounded tense when she listened on Thursday morning. Do phone records show when someone listens to a voicemail message?

I have to dial to listen to my voicemail, and it shows up on my phone's call log. I don't know if that's how it works on every cell provider, but I have to dial on Verizon. It might not show for certain what message you listened to, but I think you could see when someone at least called in to their voicemail box in general.