DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #13

[rkf]

In regards to the discussion of how sad it us that VF's husband didn't call the police Wed night or Thursday morning: I suppose it's possible he is in the US illegally, and if so that could make someone very reluctant to bring attention to themselves from the police.

He is a US citizen.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Exactly, which is why I don't get why the conversation isn't discussing this and has gone back to comments and speculation. Sad.

It is my opinion that we're human beings and we can discuss and speculate and theorize here. Speculation/theorizing is part of investigation, speculation can lead to more facts. Facts by themselves can't do everything. (OJ, CA) Wint's DNA on the pizza crust doesn't prove he murdered anyone. That doesn't stop me from believing he killed them, but that fact alone isn't enough.

It can be argued that it's speculation that he murdered them based on its presence at the murder scene, documented reports of his violent nature, convictions of violence, etc. Speculation and theories can bring new light to investigations.

We wouldn't be doing this if there was a computer in which you put only the facts you have and it comes up with solutions.

 

[corundogs]

In her numerous interviews, NG has made it clear that their relationship was more than just that she worked for SS. Either they had a closer relationship than "her business provided a service to his home (and business)" and I would expect her to pick up a call or listen to a VM as soon as she saw it, or the relationship was just business, in which case she should get out from in front of the cameras... Either way, if she knew the family as well as she says, she would know they wouldn't want her gabbing about them to every reporter who approaches her. I think the S family's true friends have respected the family's wish for privacy and dignity. NG - not so much.

ETA: I agree 9:30 is outside of business hours if it is simply a "business relationship".

IMO, unless it is an emergency, 9:30 is outside of personal phone call hours too. They may have had a personal relationship, but this was not a "chat on the phone" type relationship. I am not sure they went to dinner, hung out at the camp fire and went on family vacations together. You can know a lot about someone, and be very involved with their lives, and care very much about them without actually doing those things.

I agree that her talking to the media is strange. However, much was said about her from her original interviews where shock was in place. She has been accused just like JW has been. At this point, either she goes into hiding like JW - which makes him look guilty to many - or she talks to the media, which makes her look like she is betraying the family.

I feel for everyone involved in this tragedy. There is no "right way" to deal with this stuff. But having your life torn apart because you were involved with the family is so not right to me.

 

[corundogs]

I have to add in defense of messages possibly being ignored or unreturned, and at the same time condemn Verizon Wireless. Maybe it's just out state that has problems with not getting phone calls or voicemails.

1) I can be sitting right here with the phone, it doesn't ring but will alert me to a "missed message".

2) I can be sitting right here with the phone, DH and my Mom will test and call me from the same room. No ringing, no message alert. I'm sitting right there. I call them to test, DH's rang, Mom's did not.

3) This one is REALLY a problem: voicemails not showing up for as many 10 days up to 3 weeks after they're left. In some cases, I'm expecting an important (doctor died) message and when it doesn't come as scheduled, I call various times throughout the day, every day. Nothing. Three weeks later, I get a New Message alert! I listen to the envelope and it tells me that it came in three weeks ago, but that's not true. And it's unacceptable because people swear they left a message, but I'm not getting it, they don't believe me and think I'm ignoring it until it happens to them.

4) Our flip-phones (go ahead and laugh, I do) don't have text capabilities, so I don't know about those issues if there are any.

Our phones are on, charged and ringers on with signals. DH is a tech guy, so we are thorough (anal) in our tests and experiments. It's hit and miss.
We know the difference between messages that are left at the time of the call and when calls are left strictly as messages without making an actual phone call, like coming in through the backdoor as not to disturb someone with the alarm or worry of a ringing phone in the wee hours.

A call comes through fine, two minutes later, it goes directly to vm, but we might not get it for days or weeks even though we call in to retrieve messages, they sometimes won't be there even though we're sitting next to each other and hear the message at the time of leaving.

I have Verizon and an iPhone 6. This happens to me as well.

 

[yepitsme]

IMO, unless it is an emergency, 9:30 is outside of personal phone call hours too. They may have had a personal relationship, but this was not a "chat on the phone" type relationship. I am not sure they went to dinner, hung out at the camp fire and went on family vacations together. You can know a lot about someone, and be very involved with their lives, and care very much about them without actually doing those things.

I agree that her talking to the media is strange. However, much was said about her from her original interviews where shock was in place. She has been accused just like JW has been. At this point, either she goes into hiding like JW - which makes him look guilty to many - or she talks to the media, which makes her look like she is betraying the family.

I feel for everyone involved in this tragedy. There is no "right way" to deal with this stuff. But having your life torn apart because you were involved with the family is so not right to me.

I don't think its strange that she's talking -- people do it all the time. But its not her only option by any means. There's a very large spectrum of behavior between "going into hiding" and giving all these interviews.

 

[rkf]

Did Dominos say they called AS back??? I hadn't heard that...

I could definitely be wrong, but I thought I read/heard that she ordered online and then Domino's called her back and spoke with her on the phone.

*I wish there was a salt shaker emoticon.

 

[nikki80]

He called around 9:30 pm. He is not her boss - she works for him, but she is not an employee.

That is definitely after hours. Phone calls after 9pm are unacceptable, IMO. There comes a time when it is acceptable for people to be on their own time. She was not working for him the next day, so it wasn't a change of plans for that.

I see nothing wrong with her not answering that call and not listening to the VM the next day.

I agree with you. I don't answer my phone after 8pm unless I want to. She might have looked at her phone and said "why is he calling me so late?" She may have been out at dinner with her husband, she might have been getting her freak on, whatever. She's not obligated to answer.

 

[Angelo]

It doesn't just happen in the TV shows. Recently a woman got help by putting "call 911" on her pizza order.

Agree. Kathryn Harvey may have been trying to send a message before she and her family were murdered during a home invasion.

Perkinson recalls that Kathryn appeared nervous on New Year's Day 2006 when Perkinson arrived with one of her daughters to return Stella from a slumber party.
Perkinson's daughter started to follow Stella downstairs to the basement, but Kathryn blocked her path.

Perkinson remembers asking Kathryn what was wrong because she looked pale. Kathryn replied she wasn't feeling well and held one of her hands like a gun to the side of her head and moved it in a circular motion, similar to a gesture a child might use to indicate that someone is crazy.

That gesture still haunts Perkinson, who will never know whether Kathryn was trying to tell her something. At the time, Perkinson thought her friend was behaving oddly but figured she was just stressed.

http://www.richmond.com/news/article_69f5a455-2192-5144-93bc-add8aea87e4f.html

 

[nikki80]

SS would have succeeded in sending a signal if thats what he wanted to do. Instead he was heard repeatedly reassuring anyone who raised a question. There was a story for everything. Yes, I'm sure he had to say these things and he could have said them and also sent a signal. but he didn't. The general impression is pretty clear -- he believed that the best way to save his son's life was to cooperate and that if teh police came they would be killed.

I respectfull disagree with everything you posted. That's kind of messed up to imply that if he wanted to send a message he would have succeeded. Goodness.

 

[thorpedo]

I have to add in defense of messages possibly being ignored or unreturned, and at the same time condemn Verizon Wireless. Maybe it's just our state that has problems with not getting phone calls or voicemails.

1) I can be sitting right here with the phone, it doesn't ring but will alert me to a "missed message".

2) I can be sitting right here with the phone, DH and my Mom will test and call me from the same room. No ringing, no message alert. I'm sitting right there. I call them to test, DH's rang, Mom's did not.

3) This one is REALLY a problem: voicemails not showing up for as many 10 days up to 3 weeks after they're left. In some cases, I'm expecting an important (doctor died) message and when it doesn't come as scheduled, I call various times throughout the day, every day. Nothing. Three weeks later, I get a New Message alert! I listen to the envelope and it tells me that it came in three weeks ago, but that's not true. And it's unacceptable because people swear they left a message, but I'm not getting it, they don't believe me and think I'm ignoring it until it happens to them.

4) Our flip-phones (go ahead and laugh, I do) don't have text capabilities, so I don't know about those issues if there are any.

Our phones are on, charged and ringers on with signals. DH is a tech guy, so we are thorough (anal) in our tests and experiments. It's hit and miss.
We know the difference between messages that are left at the time of the call and when calls are left strictly as messages without making an actual phone call, like coming in through the backdoor as not to disturb someone with the alarm or worry of a ringing phone in the wee hours.

A call comes through fine, two minutes later, it goes directly to vm, but we might not get it for days or weeks even though we call in to retrieve messages, they sometimes won't be there even though we're sitting next to each other and hear the message at the time of leaving.

I agree. I had to switch from Sprint for the same issues.

 

[jjenny]

I could definitely be wrong, but I thought I read/heard that she ordered online and then Domino's called her back and spoke with her on the phone.

*I wish there was a salt shaker emoticon.

She ordered by phone. Dominos didn't call her back.

 

[jjenny]

Agree. Kathryn Harvey may have been trying to send a message before she and her family were murdered during a home invasion.



http://www.richmond.com/news/article_69f5a455-2192-5144-93bc-add8aea87e4f.html

And of course Jennifer Petit flat out said in the bank she needed money because her family was being held for ransom.
Unfortunately that didn't work and she was still killed with her daughters.

 

[dish1234]

It is my opinion that we're human beings and we can discuss and speculate and theorize here. Speculation/theorizing is part of investigation, speculation can lead to more facts. Facts by themselves can't do everything. (OJ, CA) Wint's DNA on the pizza crust doesn't prove he murdered anyone. That doesn't stop me from believing he killed them, but that fact alone isn't enough.

It can be argued that it's speculation that he murdered them based on its presence at the murder scene, documented reports of his violent nature, convictions of violence, etc. Speculation and theories can bring new light to investigations.

We wouldn't be doing this if there was a computer in which you put only the facts you have and it comes up with solutions.

Thanks for writing this. As a new poster, I wasn't sure if there was some "rule" on Websleuths about stating your opinion, or if people were just being rude when they responded with "because spouting off opinions is easier than digging up facts". Now I know it's the latter.

If folks want to discuss the potential link between the two metalworks companies, is anything being written now, about previous components of the case, stopping them? This thread seems to be a hodge podge of opinions, thoughts, etc., at least to me...

To add something to the commentary here, I did not realize that Savvas was strangled. To me, in my opinion, that implies a level of "intimacy" killing, to strangle someone, to choke the very life out of them.

The last moments of these four people were very brutal.

 

[Millhouse]

NG has an iPhone. For mine, I just click on the VM message - no dialing. I have Verizon, too. http://www.webpagescreenshot.info/img/557c6b71284463-80243882
View attachment 76283

Interesting. I click on the voicemail message on mine as well which is a Verizon Android phone, but it still registers as a "call" (ie, shows up that I dialed out to *86/voicemail). It does this whether I dial *86, click on my voicemail icon, or click on the new message notification. I hope there's a way to track this some way for iPhones!

 

[rkf]

IMO, unless it is an emergency, 9:30 is outside of personal phone call hours too. They may have had a personal relationship, but this was not a "chat on the phone" type relationship. I am not sure they went to dinner, hung out at the camp fire and went on family vacations together. You can know a lot about someone, and be very involved with their lives, and care very much about them without actually doing those things.

I agree that her talking to the media is strange. However, much was said about her from her original interviews where shock was in place. She has been accused just like JW has been. At this point, either she goes into hiding like JW - which makes him look guilty to many - or she talks to the media, which makes her look like she is betraying the family.

I feel for everyone involved in this tragedy. There is no "right way" to deal with this stuff. But having your life torn apart because you were involved with the family is so not right to me.

JMO: Every time NG gives an interview, she puts herself at the center of the story. And every time she does, it makes me question her integrity - not only because she has given diametrically opposing stories, but because she is talking to the media about this family that did not live their lives in a very public way, in spite/because of their wealth. She appears to be enjoying her 15 minutes of fame - doesn't mean she is involved in the crime, but it is unseemly given the circumstances.

I personally don't think JW not responding to the media makes him look guilty. If he didn't respond to LE, that would be different. I would NEVER speak to the media if I was involved in a criminal investigation - too much chance of my words being twisted or edited for dramatic effect/ratings. I DO think his behavior makes him look suspicious, but it could all be coincidence and bad luck.

We are at such a disadvantage because we have no idea what has been found in SW, said in interviews, or even what SWs have been issued that remain under seal. I believe LE knows what they're doing and they are constructing a water-tight net, which takes time, patience and perseverance...

 

[Skigirl]

Her daughters had concussions previously, and I infer from the comment that the schools didn't handle the situation as well as AS would have liked. I also wonder if one of the daughters who suffered a pretty significant concussion spent part or all of the year in the Virgin Islands with the family. Did she take a year or part of the year off to recuperate? That would explain why she graduated at 19. (I have a child who will graduate at 19, but we put him in "pre-K" before kindergarten, so he is one of the oldest kids in his class.)

The article I posted earlier said that the two girls went to boarding school while the PS, AS, and SS went on "sabbatical" in the Virgin Islands. PS attended Antilles School while there. I think the graduation age may be related to the concussion, but who knows.

ETA article link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...5e5e24-0545-11e5-bc72-f3e16bf50bb6_story.html

 

[facundo]

She ordered by phone. Dominos didn't call her back.

Think of this, a woman who identified herself as Amy S called Dominos. Was it the real Mrs S?

 

[rkf]

Thanks for writing this. As a new poster, I wasn't sure if there was some "rule" on Websleuths about stating your opinion, or if people were just being rude when they responded with "because spouting off opinions is easier than digging up facts". Now I know it's the latter.

If folks want to discuss the potential link between the two metalworks companies, is anything being written now, about previous components of the case, stopping them? This thread seems to be a hodge podge of opinions, thoughts, etc., at least to me...

To add something to the commentary here, I did not realize that Savvas was strangled. To me, in my opinion, that implies a level of "intimacy" killing, to strangle someone, to choke the very life out of them.

The last moments of these four people were very brutal.

I'm the one who said it's easier to spout opinions. If you have read any of my posts, you know that I am at least as guilty as anyone else of doing that. In fact, unless it's highlighted in red font, everything I post is my opinion. The only rule I've read regarding opinion is that we are supposed to say it's our opinion (JMO, MOO, IMO). If it's confirmed fact, we are supposed to attach a link.

I didn't read the terms of service until AFTER I got in trouble for sleuthing a family member. This was before I even knew what "sleuthing" is. You can read the whole thing here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

ETA: I wasn't trying to be rude. I apologize that I came off as such. I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek. Hard to convey in text. Maybe there's an emoji...

 

[DexterMorgan]

If theories, opinions, nor speculation was allowed on Ws; Than most threads would be 5 pages if you exclude the condolences comments or the That's messed up comments.

But a little research can help eliminate over the top comments.

Jmo

 

[Keefer]

I am with yepitsme on this. S.S. Was probably duped into cooperating with his killers.many people mistakenly do not fight immediately because they believe that if they give someone what they want they will survive or that they will have the chance to fight later, both are big mistakes.

I respectfull disagree with everything you posted. That's kind of messed up to imply that if he wanted to send a message he would have succeeded. Goodness.