Deaths might be related to giardasil vaccine

Who exactly DID they test the vaccine on?
Can you, ethically, test a vaccine on "little girls"?
Or will the little girls who get it now, actually be the guinea pigs?
Usually, a new medicine is tested in several trials - early ones on animals, later ones on small groups of people, then on larger groups of people (adults, more often men than women), then they start getting into more specific populations. That's how you ethically test on "little girls" - first you do all the testing to be as sure as you can possibly be that it's safe using adults who can consent.

Every medicine has to go through this - your standard OTCs like Tylenol or Advil - etc.

I don't know what they did precisely, but I notice the NVIC doesn't seem to be saying it wasn't tested on little girls, just that they can't find out how many it was tested on.

I don't trust advocacy groups - they're often so sure of their cause that they feel the end justifies the means. Corporations also have their goals, their ethical lacks, but at least they don't believe they're right.
 
I don't trust advocacy groups - they're often so sure of their cause that they feel the end justifies the means. Corporations also have their goals, their ethical lacks, but at least they don't believe they're right.


Exactly.
 
Hi JBean,

:) Yep, I will ALWAYS have a passion in this field because of what happened to our son.

FYI for those of you who may want to know...I was never, ever anti-vaccine. We dutifully had our son vaccinated -- that is, UNTIL he started reacting violently to his baby shots. Then, and only then (unfortunately), did I avail myself of the information out there regarding the downside to vaccines, not particularly something one would normally find in your average pediatrician's office. The first book I ever read was Barbara Loe Fisher's book, "DPT - A Shot In the Dark," and from there, my research rocketed to the point to where I am today with my feelings about vaccines. And yes...absolutely, I am anti-vaccine, but it took me several years to get to this point and of course, my opinion regarding vaccines is my own personal opinion after witnessing our son's reactions and reading and speaking to many professionals regarding vaccine safety issues. Our family uses mostly naturopathic/homeopathic medicine; we eat organic foods (nothing processed) and try to live as healthy a lifestyle as is possible. For us, this seems to be working. I just do not care to inject all that crud into my body in the name of 'health.' But hey...that's just me...

And for the record, Barbara Loe Fisher is NOT anti-vaccine, and she makes this point abundantly clear throughout her website for those of you who may not necessarily be familiar with Barbara or what she stands for.

Barbara Loe Fisher is against 'mandatory' vaccination and feels that the use of vaccines should be a personal choice. Barbara feels information regarding safety trials re: vaccines should be made readily available to the public.

There is an excellent book out there right now (and I'm tired, so I can't think of the name of it right off hand), in which it is detailed just how vaccines and medicines are safety tried prior to entering the public realm. It's quite frightening...it's written by a Mary...Marie...something -- she used to work for the FDA. I'll have to look it up, but it's the most frightening book I've read to-date regarding the the lack of safety measures in place before drugs are released into the public realm. I promise to look this one up sometime tomorrow...

I used to trust the CDC, the FDA and the NIMH. I no longer do. I've taken the time to really listen to the whistleblowers who have come out to warn the public about the goings on in these institutions. There are a lot of decisions being made regarding these drugs that have absolutely nothing at all to do with safety -- $$ talks -- and lots of palms get greased in this industry. It's really appalling...

If you really believe that the CDC and the FDA have our best interests at heart, think again. I am NOT saying that everyone working for these corporations are evil. There are truly some really good people who work for these institutions, but as anything else, things can get really fouled up in the name of public safety. Egos and contracts and power plays all have a hand in what ends up on the CDC's mandatory childhood vaccine list. It is up to each parent to do his/her own research and then deciding what vaccine, if any, is appropriate for your child.

Our son cannot handle vaccines, but I come from a family with severe allergies, as does my husband. In my husband's case, certain foods can trigger a life-threatening situation. My mother, who is now deceased, could not tolerate ANY antibiotics; penicillin almost killed her after she gave birth to my sister (her left lung collapsed and she turned blue/black after a surgical procedure). Autism spectrum disorders/learning disorders run rampant in our family (my side). The children affected are all extremely intelligent, but yet, all have suffered one or more severe vaccine reactions.

So...for me, it was really just connecting the dots and figuring out what was happening to our son. I realized that if we wanted our son to be able to live any semblance of a normal life, I was going to have to listen to my heart and realize that, for him, vaccines were NOT going to give him a healthier start to life. End of story...

The information as to the negative side of vaccines is out there, but you will definitely have to look harder to find it.

As I've stated before on other threads along this topic, Barbara Fisher's poor son suffered a horrendous vaccine reaction to his whole cell pertussis DPT vaccine, the same exact vaccine which our son reacted to as well. And yet, STILL, unbelievably, we allowed our son to be injected with one more vaccine when he was six months old (the DT, minus the pertussis) and he still suffered with complete somnalence for two days post vaccination. That's when we called it quits -- haven't regretted it to this day.
 
RedFlagsWeekly is an excellent, mainstream website which provides all sorts of information vis-a-vis medical information, research, etc.

Here is a link to an article written by Mr. Regush back in 2002 regarding the cervical cancer vaccine 'already' going down the pipline.

Here's the link to Mr. Regush's article re: the cancer vaccine: http://www.redflagsweekly.com/second_opinion/2002_nov25.html

Here is a snip:

"November 25, 2002

SECOND OPINION

VACCINE MADNESS

"The "Breakthrough" Headlines Have Been Running All Week About A New Vaccine For Cervical Cancer - This Is Medical Science And Health Journalism At Its Worst And A Shameful Example Of How Medical Research Is Taking Dangerous Short-Cuts And Badly Misleading The Public."

By Nicholas Regush

"Whenever you see or hear the word "breakthrough" in a medical news report, duck for cover. Chances are someone’s imagination is hard at work."

"The latest medical frenzy involved a vaccine aimed at cervical cancer. The study was published in the November 21 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM)."

"The Reuters New Agency provided this lead: "A vaccine against a cervical cancer-causing virus can protect young women from infection - a success researchers hope will eventually allow them to prevent many cases of cervical cancer."

..."A WORTHLESS STUDY

"When I first reviewed the study, I couldn’t believe the NEJM was putting this research on such a high footing - and that includes the embarrassing editorial."

"Essentially this is what the study is about: Of 2,392 young women who were entered into the study, 859 were excluded from the final data analysis - some for technical reasons and the vast majority because they were actually found to be infected with HPV-16 before getting the vaccine."

"Of 1,533 women who remained, half were given the vaccine and half the placebo shot."

"The results were as follows: No one who was vaccinated developed an HPV-16 infection or a precancerous growth. Of those who received the placebo shot, 41 women became infected with HPV-16, and nine of them had precancerous cervical growths."

"On the surface, at least interesting for an early study. But those results became the focus of great jubilation."

"But I’ll tell you this: It doesn’t take rocket science to see that the study’s methodology is flawed to such a degree that it doesn’t even deserve to be published in some throwaway journal. But then again, the NEJM has, of late, become a depository for bad science."

"Still, given that the entire world of health journalism seems to have piled on the bravos for this study and just about every vaccine specialist has come out of the woodwork to applaud yet another vaccine effort, I figured that I would seek out someone who has the guts to face up to the bilge that masquerades as science. I therefore got hold of Howard Urnovitz, who is a scientist dealing in molecular issues and a regular contributor to redflagsweekly.com."

"His first reply was that "this is a poorly designed study that fits all-too-well into the legacy of medical incompetence called vaccine research."

"Here is what Urnovitz had to say, pretty well reaching the same conclusions that I reached upon careful review of this study:

"These investigators initially enrolled 2,392 women to take part in the study. Immediately, 36 % were disqualified primarily because they had detectable HPV markers, according to the study’s authors, who determined HPV-detectability by either antibody or PCR testing. In other words, the study selected for women who showed some sort of robust natural immunity that kept them from expressing the HPV markers."

"Then the study used a cancer detection method which is known to be inaccurate, with a rate of false negative test results that ranges from 1% to 93 %, despite the fact that it is the only test currently available in the United States to screen women for signs of cervical cancer. (A false negative result means that women who have cervical cancer or precancerous tissues are not being identified when they have a Pap smear.) The women in this study are only monitored for HPV infection if they show a positive Pap smear. But since even the CDC recognizes that the Pap test produces a wide range of false negative results, the HPV study’s foundation - the Pap test - is so unreliable that the rest of the study is rendered highly suspect."

"Also, the HPV test is poorly designed. A positive result was defined as any PCR signal that exceeded the background PCR level associated with an HPV-negative sample of human DNA. This is a risky protocol because PCR tests are plagued with false positive reactions (a positive signal that is not a true detection of the target). Since the authors show no data or reference to data on a secondary test that confirms the gene sequence of a positive signal, they cannot conclude that they are measuring HPV."

"So here is what the study really amounts to. Again, I’ll defer to Urnovitz because he lays it very cleanly on the line:

"The proper conclusion of this study should be: Administration of this HPV-16 vaccine reduced the incidence of an uncharacterized PCR signal from a poorly defined cohort which was strongly biased toward a natural immunity."

"Finally, press suggestions or those from the authors that young girls will soon be given at vaccine to prevent cervical cancer are ridiculously premature."

"As an aside (make of it what you will), given the great new honesty in medicine these days, it was noted in the NEJM that "some co-authors on the study are with Merck Research Laboratories which developed the vaccine and provided the funding."
 
Here is a link to an excellent article, written re: the PR machinations behind the marketing of Gardasil. This is a LONG article to read, but well worth the read.

http://www.prwatch.org/node/6208.

And a snip:

..."Viral Marketing (Literally)
"As discussed in the first article of this series, Merck is in the enviable position of having the first HPV vaccine on the market. Even without state governments making vaccination required through mandates, there is undoubtedly a robust market for a drug that is being heralded as one of the medical miracles of our time, especially with a 16 to 19 month lead on its closest competitor."

"Merck used their deep pockets to make sure that even before the FDA had approved Gardasil, there was a growing awareness of and concern about -- one might even say fear of -- HPV among U.S. women. The marketing juggernaut was multifaceted and meticulously planned. In 2005 Merck started by funding a campaign called "Make the Connection," which was run by the Cancer Research and Prevention Foundation (CRPF) and the celebrity charity Step Up Women's Network. The national campaign was launched September 30, 2005, in Tampa, FL, with what would become the standard formula of a celebrity, a medical professional, and an opportunity for attendees to bead their own "Make the Connection" bracelets. Partnering with non-profits, especially non-profits that appears to have patients' health and women's issues as their primary concerns, helped Merck reach audiences that may have rightly been suspicious of the motivations of a pharmaceutical company. But with even cursory examination, CRPF looks like a drug industry funded group wrapped in non-profit clothing."

"According to their website, CRPF was founded in 1985 by Carolyn Aldigé a year after she lost her father to cancer. As is often the case with patient groups, CRPF's 2006 annual report lists several pharmaceutical companies, including Merck, GlaxoSmithKline, Pfizer, Roche, Eli Lilly, and Sanofi-Aventis as funders. In fact, all of those and more gave in excess of $100,000 to the organization during 2006, with several others giving at only slightly lower levels. In addition, CRPF received more than $100,000 from the industry lobbying group Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) in 2006. CRPF needs to be bringing in big grants: according to their 2006 IRS 990 filing, available at Guidestar, as President of CRPF, Aldigé makes $256,000 a year and has a total compensation package of more than $286,000 annually."
 
Thanks Kim :)

Fabulous information. My nephew at six months old developed grand mal seizures due to his vaccines. He has at least one a week almost two years later. His dr's did confirm it was from the *viruses* in the vaccines that caused it. Im so sorry for what happened to your son.

Aluminum in gardisil should spark some questions concerning long term safety!
 
Autumn,

I'm so sorry to read about your nephew's vaccine reaction. You know, he may be entitled to compensation by the government -- I don't know how old he is, but you may want to check into this for him/his family.

This issue re: vaccine safety is so emotional for me. On the one hand, I do believe that SOME...SOME...vaccines MAY have helped prevent certain diseases. On the other hand, there is always a yin and a yang. I really do believe that researchers had the very best of intentions when vaccines came into play. But as we humans tend to do, we mucked things up with our constant, inane thirst/quest for power and $$. What may have started out as a good thing (vaccines for public consumption) has turned into a political, money making beast machine. Public health always, always, gets steered into the black abyss as truth in research flies into the wind in the name of PROFIT. In the meantime, scientists scrabble to make ends meet in their work venues and are forced to resort to more or less devious methods at times, in order to seek the funding they so desperately need. (I have a scientist friend who has described the horrors with what those in the scientific field go through just to get their projects funded. It's a real political junk field out there...it's tedious and downright nasty at times working in these institions -- just ask some of the whistleblowers who have dared to come out of the closet and speak out about what they know.)

So, for now, unless and until, THEY can prove to me that injecting loads of crap into my body will make me somehow healthier than my own immune system can muster on its own (with proper nourishment/diet and exercise), then I take a pass on vaccines for myself and our family. We just don't buy into the usual public mantra about health issues.

As that once famous (now deceased) Chicago pediatrician, Dr. Robert Menselsohn, once stated to a group of medical graduates, "One half of what you have learned in medical school is good, the other half is crap. It will be up to you to figure out which is which."

Words to live by...
 
Thanks Kim She has thought about compensation but she is so emotionally upset by it that she doesn't know if she pursue it. I never really did my reading much about vaccinations with my daughter before hand thankfully it appears for her to be fine.

They call it practicing medicine for a reason.
 
Thanks Kim :)

Fabulous information. My nephew at six months old developed grand mal seizures due to his vaccines. He has at least one a week almost two years later. His dr's did confirm it was from the *viruses* in the vaccines that caused it. Im so sorry for what happened to your son.

Aluminum in gardisil should spark some questions concerning long term safety!
Are they sure he isn't just epileptic? How did they determine the cause?
Thanks.
 
Autumn,

The National Vaccine Information Center offers counseling/help with vaccine victims' families should the need arise. They are available simply through a phone call.

We have supported the NVIC's educational efforts to the public for many years now. The NVIC receives many calls on a daily basis from families just as yours.

I understand not wanting to go through the legal process re: vaccine injuries. It's a tough road to pave, I know.

It's so ironic. The year my hubby and I first moved to Denver, years ago, the very first person I befriended was a Veterinary Assistant who had lost her daughter through a reaction to a vaccine. Her family was actually compensated through VAERS -- but as she told me, no amount of financial compensation could ever bring back her daughter. She was devastated.

I'm just so glad we quit vaccinating our son when we did. He still struggles with his learning disorder issues, but at least he is a normal young boy/adolescent, and hopefully, will have a bright future to look forward to.
 
Are they sure he isn't just epileptic? How did they determine the cause?
Thanks.

He did have testing multiple eeg's and an mri. His pediatrician said its idiopathic and just a coincidence but the neurologist said infantile seizures are usually caused by a virus and are labeled idiopathic and my nephew's preventative medicine dr said having celiac disease can set a person up to be more vulnerable to certain things. My daughter has celiac disease too but she didnt have problems thankfully with the vaccines. My sister has found casein and gluten aggravate it greatly but they werent the cause of it since he wasnt ingesting either of those at the time.

Kim- I know when they say with statistics that odds are your child will be fine but its not enough for the parent who has to live with the decision of the reaction from the vaccines. Im sorry for what has happened to your friend. Im glad your son will lead a happy life. My sister has had such bad anxiety from it. I'll mention it to her.
 
He did have testing multiple eeg's and an mri. His pediatrician said its idiopathic and just a coincidence but the neurologist said infantile seizures are usually caused by a virus and are labeled idiopathic and my nephew's preventative medicine dr said having celiac disease can set a person up to be more vulnerable to certain things. My daughter has celiac disease too but she didnt have problems thankfully with the vaccines. My sister has found casein and gluten aggravate it greatly but they werent the cause of it since he wasnt ingesting either of those at the time.

Kim- I know when they say with statistics that odds are your child will be fine but its not enough for the parent who has to live with the decision of the reaction from the vaccines. Im sorry for what has happened to your friend. Im glad your son will lead a happy life. My sister has had such bad anxiety from it. I'll mention it to her.
That makes more sense. I didn't understand why it wasn't labeled ideopathic. I see it was by some.Does celiac set you up for seizure disorder?
My son is epileptic, diagnosed at 22 months.In all the pediatric neurologists, none of them ever suggested that it was viral ?! Very interesting. They are very often febrile in nature, but I don't recall ever hearing viral. Do they mean viral in nature in that viruses cause fevers? I am just trying to follow the logic that the vaccine was related to his seizure disorder.
His eeg should have given some good information regarding seizure activity and it's source. Is he medicated and still has seizures?
Thanks for any and all info.
 
Celiac does cause seizures, I suffered with them for 17 years. Medications only slowed it down but never stopped it and I was tried on five different medications. When they found I had celiac disease/gluten intolerance and followed the diet within days they have stopped. When I accidentally ingest gluten I have a seizure. Casein and soy intolerances can cause seizures also, even in breast milk since it is found there by the foods that are eaten. He isn't medicated but he might be in the future.

His isn't related to fevers, being that viruses actually never leave your body it is always there its just dormant.

The best thing to try I have found is an elimination diet if it works great if it doesn't than you can move on and try something else.

I dont have many links but I found a few, these arent the best though-

http://members.jorsm.com/~binstock/fs-hhv6.htm (roseola virus)
http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2007/07/virus_linked_to_temp.html

This is another one (good source) http://professionals.epilepsy.com/page/infectious_viral.html
Click at the bottom of the article for the table and it goes in detail of all the viruses that have the potential to cause a seizure disorder.
 
Celiac does cause seizures, I suffered with them for 17 years. Medications only slowed it down but never stopped it and I was tried on five different medications. When they found I had celiac disease/gluten intolerance and followed the diet within days they have stopped. When I accidentally ingest gluten I have a seizure. Casein and soy intolerances can cause seizures also, even in breast milk since it is found there by the foods that are eaten. He isn't medicated but he might be in the future.

His isn't related to fevers, being that viruses actually never leave your body it is always there its just dormant.

The best thing to try I have found is an elimination diet if it works great if it doesn't than you can move on and try something else.

I dont have many links but I found a few, these arent the best though-

http://members.jorsm.com/~binstock/fs-hhv6.htm (roseola virus)
http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2007/07/virus_linked_to_temp.html

This is another one (good source) http://professionals.epilepsy.com/page/infectious_viral.html
Click at the bottom of the article for the table and it goes in detail of all the viruses that have the potential to cause a seizure disorder.
Thank you I will investigate.

ETA: In looking at one link right away, I see what you mean. Viruses like meningitis and encephailits were ruled out right away as they are easy to test for. That is why we didn't go down the viral road as he did not test positive for anything.
I was imagining you meant something different. thanks again.
 
so what virus does he have? These are not difficult to detect. Sorry to ask so many questions, I find this fascinating.
 
Your welcome :) I dont think my sister was told as she has never told me. I assume it was something in his 6 month shots since he developed it not long after.
 
Your welcome :) I dont think my sister was told as she has never told me. I assume it was something in his 6 month shots since he developed it not long after.
Wouldn't they just test for the virus and confirm the diganosis? That is what they did for my son.
Also, why wouldn;t the pediatrician seethe positive virus result?
 
Im not sure if they did or didnt, she might know, two weeks before the seizure disorder started my nephew took a roll off of the changing table when my sister's back was turned. My mom was ticked off that the accident happened and yelled at my sister over it.

After that she only confirmed what the neurologist and the preventative medicine dr stated as the mri showed no brain bleed that would have been indicative of a brain injury induced epilepsy. My mom was just scared for my nephew and it wasnt handled in the best way, it did set off stressed family visits after that.

Im not really close to her either since it happened since she distanced herself from our family.

I know the pediatrician announced that it was not possible right after when she saw him before the testing was done. He is an idiot though as he misdiagnosed my niece about a year before with pneumonia and sent her home with a cold diagnosis.
 
Im not sure if they did or didnt, she might know, two weeks before the seizure disorder started my nephew took a roll off of the changing table when my sister's back was turned. My mom was ticked off that the accident happened and yelled at my sister over it.

After that she only confirmed what the neurologist and the preventative medicine dr stated as the mri showed no brain bleed that would have been indicative of a brain injury induced epilepsy. My mom was just scared for my nephew and it wasnt handled in the best way, it did set off stressed family visits after that.

Im not really close to her either since it happened since she distanced herself from our family.

I know the pediatrician announced that it was not possible right after when she saw him before the testing was done. He is an idiot though as he misdiagnosed my niece about a year before with pneumonia and sent her home with a cold diagnosis.
Well in your pediatrician defense, that happens often. pneumonia can sneak up rather quickly from a cold in small chidren. It is not uncommon for it to change rapidly even after a doctor has declared cold and congestion! I have seen it happen.
I can imgine the stress in your family. So sorry it caused distance instead of closeness in your family.
What I am driving at is how it would not be positively diagnosed as seizure caused by virus? Viral infection,trauma and febrile seizures are the first things that were ruled out with my son. Once those things are positively ruled out, then it becomes idiopathic.
I cannot understand how the vaccine would be the cause and not confirmed easily enough. It wouldn;t be theoretical, it would be fact. Does that make sense?
thanks again. I am always looking for new information on seizures.
 
I know what you mean, I wish I knew the details myself but I know if I brought it up no matter what context it was it would just tick her off. She might know ... I think she was more bent on saying " I didnt cause him to have a seizure disorder by him falling". I know my seizure disorder was labeled "idiopathic" it just wasnt able to be figured out. Im hopeful one day it will just stop as long as he avoids those foods.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
152
Guests online
2,772
Total visitors
2,924

Forum statistics

Threads
592,514
Messages
17,970,176
Members
228,791
Latest member
fesmike
Back
Top