Defense Taphonomy Expert

[debbie0604]

FYI: This is also the sample blocs that can/will be offered to a consulting specialist for a second opinion which can be cut and stained, same as the original slides which can be compared and contrasted with the new slides. AND not just in post mortem cases~ :snooty:


Of course if the primary blocking was substandard, all bets are OFF for quality results which is why histological specimens should be handled by HT(ASCP)s! (I do stick up for my brother & sister lab rats!):dance:

BBM you mean say... if a block was cut in two accidentally?...and no tissue left?

 

[logicalgirl]

YEP! heck...saving is one of the "curses" of laboratory medicine! ALL sections!:dance:

One question Joypath, (LG bowing) do you carry a WS beeper? You always show up at just the right moment!

 

[Aedrys]

One question Joypath, (LG bowing) do you carry a WS beeper? You always show up at just the right moment!

OT, but LOL. My brain went straight to, "It's WS signal!" Joypath saw it in the sky and knew she needed to be here! It's like bat signal, only better!

Thanks for all the info on this thread, you guys. You are awesome!

 

[logicalgirl]

But even the state didn't seem to know what a Taphonomy expert was! I don't think they have one those yet. After today's hearing...I bet they might be looking for one...

Was that expert actually approved? I was so engrossed in looking it up on my separate browser I didn't hear whether or not it was or put forward for further consideration after Baez provides more "argument" for it?

 

[Aedrys]

Was that expert actually approved? I was so engrossed in looking it up on my separate browser I didn't hear whether or not it was or put forward for further consideration after Baez provides more "argument" for it?

Not yet. There's supposed to be a specific hearing that I can't remember the name of to approve or not approve the taphonomy expert.

 

[debbie0604]

Not yet. There's supposed to be a specific hearing that I can't remember the name of to approve or not approve the taphonomy expert.

Wasn't it a "Rogers" hearing or something like that?

 

[joypath]

BBM you mean say... if a block was cut in two accidentally?...and no tissue left?

debbie: :woohoo: that's one "oops", another would be "losing" the tissue in the bath (ie: no tissue in the bloc at alll!), marking the bloc with the wrong case #, a bloc filled with air bubbles (visible only when cutting on the microtome),damaging the tissue prior to embedding (a nightmare on a celluar level!), ETC. Making the slides from these blocs requires great skill, picture yourself catching onto a glass microscope slide one slippery piece of egg white measuring the width of an eyelash in egg drop soup that you previously cut into the soup! YEAH! And it can't fold over, crumble up, wrinkle, look messy or SLIDE OFF! :croc:
Otherwise......I'm gonna get really ticked off! :crazy:

 

[Aedrys]

Wasn't it a "Rogers" hearing or something like that?

Yes, I think that's it, a Rogers hearing! Thanks! I kept wanting to say Frye, and I know it's not that one!

 

[joypath]

One question Joypath, (LG bowing) do you carry a WS beeper? You always show up at just the right moment!

OT/ LOL I wish, it sure beats the @#$%^& I really DO carry!

 

[Aedrys]

Oooooh, Valhall did a GREAT blog over at the Hinky Meter explaining how a taphonomy expert may play into the defense's strategy! Read it here: Taphonomy

 

[debbie0604]

debbie: :woohoo: that's one "oops", another would be "losing" the tissue in the bath (ie: no tissue in the bloc at alll!), marking the bloc with the wrong case #, a bloc filled with air bubbles (visible only when cutting on the microtome),damaging the tissue prior to embedding (a nightmare on a celluar level!), ETC. Making the slides from these blocs requires great skill, picture yourself catching onto a glass microscope slide one slippery piece of egg white measuring the width of an eyelash in egg drop soup that you previously cut into the soup! YEAH! And it can't fold over, crumble up, wrinkle, look messy or SLIDE OFF! :croc:
Otherwise......I'm gonna get really ticked off! :crazy:

I understand exactly what you are talking about. The issues bolded by me happen periodically where I work. Events are tracked in Histology, and when they occur, whoever made the error - be it a person in Accessioning or someone in Histology - they receive a written reprimand. I've seen how the tissue looks going from the blocks to the slide. It does take great skill and precision to be able to handle the tissue to the slide.

 

[doogiesgirl]

Don't Pathologists save all the samples they have examined? Hopefully there are a few jars of remains on a shelf somewhere... where is Joypath tonight?

I have a vague memory of it being said that part of one bone (thigh maybe?) was saved for future testing, to give a portion to the defense, etc. I cannot provide a link, just saying I do believe this was said at some point after the autopsy.

This couldn't be what a taphonomy? (even my computer has this word underlined in red! lol As if to question---you sure you got this right? ha) person would be interested in though could it? I mean the bones have been moved from the site......I don't get where he's going with this. Sounds inapplicable to me.

moo

 

[Just Jayla]

I don't think they'll get the taphonomist, paid by the JAC-I think Judge Perry will tell them that they already have the experts whose backgrounds comprise the individual elements of the taphonomist's umbrella expertise.
Just like with H. Lee and the questions regarding his areas of capability, Judge Perry will scrutinize this request heavily and tell JB to use the experts he has-JMO.

 

[wantsjustice]

I saw this thread called Taphonoy Expert and thought someone was talking about the time in court when the Judge called the Atty's up to his bench, and we got to hear someone Tapping away on the desk.. I thought someone made up a clever name for it, calling them a Taphonoy Expert.:loser:
I must of missed that part in the hearing as I did get up and down a few times.
I do have to say, who ever was tapping away while all we're up at side bar, they had a really good beat going, I thought they we're the Tap Expert.

:crazy:

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

In the past 60 years, taphonomy has come into its own, growing from a little known subdiscipline of paleontology to a fully-fledged discipline, with full-time practitioners. The multitude of current researchers in taphonomy specialize in its application in studies concerned with widely divergent geological time periods and in a variety of fields -from paleontology, geology, archaeology, paleobotany, paleoecology, paleoentomology and even forensics. Some taphonomists focus strictly on the study of biostratinomic processes, while others concentrate on processes that occur in the diagenetic phase. Much work centers around the actualistic study of modern processes by observation and simulation, and its application to problems encountered in the fossil record.
http://www.journaltaphonomy.com/

Seems to me, Baez wants to match the prosecution with the results from the Tennessee Lab introducing this technology. He wants to make record statements, IMO just as he states he will motion the JAC's Chapter 119 unconstitutional as it pertains to Inmate Anthony, he wants to rewrite the rules of JAC as they are written...:innocent:

Seems this technology is a botonist, entomologist, anthropoligist, archeologist, etc....all rolled into one expert! I don't believe this "expert" will fly or hold up to a "Rogers" Hearing on it..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

 

[watcher9]

In the past 60 years, taphonomy has come into its own, growing from a little known subdiscipline of paleontology to a fully-fledged discipline, with full-time practitioners. The multitude of current researchers in taphonomy specialize in its application in studies concerned with widely divergent geological time periods and in a variety of fields -from paleontology, geology, archaeology, paleobotany, paleoecology, paleoentomology and even forensics. Some taphonomists focus strictly on the study of biostratinomic processes, while others concentrate on processes that occur in the diagenetic phase. Much work centers around the actualistic study of modern processes by observation and simulation, and its application to problems encountered in the fossil record.
http://www.journaltaphonomy.com/

Seems to me, Baez wants to match the prosecution with the results from the Tennessee Lab introducing this technology. He wants to make record statements, IMO just as he states he will motion the JAC's Chapter 119 unconstitutional as it pertains to Inmate Anthony, he wants to rewrite the rules of JAC as they are written...:innocent:

Seems this technology is a botonist, entomologist, anthropoligist, archeologist, etc....all rolled into one expert! I don't believe this "expert" will fly or hold up to a "Rogers" Hearing on it..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

On the website you referenced, there is a section called Scientific Board which lists some of the most prominent specialists. I wonder if one of these could be JB's expert.

 

[Just Jayla]

In the past 60 years, taphonomy has come into its own, growing from a little known subdiscipline of paleontology to a fully-fledged discipline, with full-time practitioners. The multitude of current researchers in taphonomy specialize in its application in studies concerned with widely divergent geological time periods and in a variety of fields -from paleontology, geology, archaeology, paleobotany, paleoecology, paleoentomology and even forensics. Some taphonomists focus strictly on the study of biostratinomic processes, while others concentrate on processes that occur in the diagenetic phase. Much work centers around the actualistic study of modern processes by observation and simulation, and its application to problems encountered in the fossil record.
http://www.journaltaphonomy.com/

Seems to me, Baez wants to match the prosecution with the results from the Tennessee Lab introducing this technology. He wants to make record statements, IMO just as he states he will motion the JAC's Chapter 119 unconstitutional as it pertains to Inmate Anthony, he wants to rewrite the rules of JAC as they are written...:innocent:

Seems this technology is a botonist, entomologist, anthropoligist, archeologist, etc....all rolled into one expert! I don't believe this "expert" will fly or hold up to a "Rogers" Hearing on it..JMHO


Justice for Caylee

Red BBM-I agree...and JB already has the money for experts in these fields-Taphonomy is kind of a redundancy.

 

[suzihawk]

Also keep in mind that this is only a POTENTIAL defense witness. If this witness gives the same testimony as the States witness JB and company won't use them. JB and company are going to have a hell of a time refuting the botany evidence which in my humble opinion is KEY. Plants and bugs don't lie. My guess is that those plants and bugs can very accurately give a time-frame of when Caylee was "dumped" in that horrid location.

True, BUT... the 'experts' will be interpretating the data according to what the person giving them their paycheck wants them to say. I'm not saying they're lying per se, but any data can be twisted or misrepresented in order to make their point. Which is why I, personally, don't much weight to what any 'expert' has to say.

 

[wonders]

Red BBM-I agree...and JB already has the money for experts in these fields-Taphonomy is kind of a redundancy.

ITA with this. IMO it is redundant.

 

[magic-cat]

I think in some cases, the entire specimen used for a particular test is used up, for instance in a root sample the test would certainly use that up. But there were bones of Caylee's which were allotted to the testing process and I doubt these were consumed in testing. ANY testing that is necessary should in theory reach similar results no matter which bone is used, so I would think that the bone sections that were set aside for testing, which were NOT returned to the Anthonys as a part of Caylee's remains may still be out there and accessible for such a purpose, should the defense wish to pursue that.