I have to note, that the people in his rocket project didn't find it odd that the trip was canceled. There had been issued with the launch window, as the authorities had awarded the window to two different groups (both hoping to launch end August - beginning September). Peter Madsen had conceded the window to Copenhagen Suborbitals, so they had no rush getting UC3 Nautilus to Bornholm.
GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017
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Unfortunately, I couldn't cut and paste the text of the article to run it through a translator.
I do think that's a strong possibility, however I have some caveats:
* they weren't in a dating/romantic relationship, unless he'd quickly fallen for her
* he apparently did have other, more important, women in his life
* he apparently knew how to pick up women: plenty of fish in the sea.
So to me that reduces the likelihood of the typical relationship/domestic violence scenario that so often results in a man, feeling possessive of his woman, making her the victim of his anger.
If he was looking to target a stranger, why would he choose someone who was known to be on his boat. He'd be more likely to lure a more vulnerable person, who no one knew where she'd gone.
There are plenty of cases where the motive is obvious, this one puzzles me because it doesn't seem obvious at all.
Perhaps he thought she would be a conquest of his. How long had he known her? A person can get fixated on someone and with his personality maybe in close quarters he vented on her when it didn't happen.
Someone said she had done a story on fetishes - was he part of that, an interviewee or source?
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See post #89, there are no indications according to the Danish police that they knew each others before the interview.
I don't know what other stories KW had written about fetishes, but I can't see PM being into furries: https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2016/feb/04/furry-fandom-subculture-animal-costumes
I'll also note, that there was no indication of trouble/problems regarding Peter Madsen's rocket project. Right up until 9 August, he was blogging happily about the coming 2017 launch. The rocket was ready, and RML had just purchased a new parachute for it. Delays and scrapped launches is simply part of rocketry. One of the issues regarding the launch, was the availability of a Navy Home Guard support vessel.
SATA
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I think he could have been totally on edge over the competition from his own former project, now taken over by others, Copenhagen Suborbitals.
It seems to me, that all motives (for murder) suggested here rest entirely on (wild) speculation. Some people assume a rejection of sexual advances would make Peter Madsen violent, but Peter Madsen is a minor celebrity and virtually surrounded by women 24/7 (young and beautiful ones too) - and while he probably has sexual relations with some of them, it's safe to assume he doesn't with all, or even most. He is described as a "flirt", so undoubtedly he has many many rejections behind him.
Besides that, there are plenty of people attesting to a completely non-violent nature (even if prone to verbal outbursts of anger).
We should not be so quick to dismiss Peter Madsen's claim of a deadly accident. Under the wrong circumstances it doesn't take much to kill a human - even something as trivial as a fall can be deadly (rare, but not impossible). A submerged submarine is almost a living machine - a homebuild one even more so. There is undoubtedly many ways a person can get gravely injured, even killed.
This leaves us with the one certain crime: Kim Wall was dismembered.
While I find it hard to believe Peter Madsen could actually kill anyone, I have no problem believing he could dismember and dispose of a body (and be fairly calm about it) if that seemed the right thing to do. He does display some characteristics of antisocial personality disorder (he is not just difficult to work with, he is impossible). I will not try to make a clinical diagnosis, but having followed his relationship and subsequent falling out with various groups, I feel pretty confident he has a certain level of personality disorder (many semi-geniuses have).
That leaves us with the motive (for dismembering and disposing of the body).
Peter Madsen is personally insolvent after a failed business venture about 15 years back (relating to the sale of his first submarine). That means a company (RML = Raketmadsens Rumlaboratorium) apparently owns the submarine (plus workshop, tools, and whatever gear is needed to make and fly rockets). The exact business structure is fairly irrelevant, but RML and Peter Madsen are basically identical entities. It's a company set up purely so Peter could have stuff without owning it.
However, UC3 Nautilus has no registered owner. This is not a legal requirement for an experimental recreation craft, but it is in order to liability insurance for such a craft. I will deduce that UC3 Nautilus isn’t liability insured. A deadly accident onboard would have very serious implications for the way Peter Madsen has constructed his life (literally living his dream). I believe this could motivate Peter Madsen to dismembering and disposing of Kim Walls body. The dismembering could be purely practical – to get the body out of the submarine through a very small opening.
If I’m right in concluding UC3 Nautilus is without liability insurance, then Peter Madsen actually let something slip during the very first “interview” with the media (while he was being escorted away by police). He mentions that raising the submarine would be expensive, but that it is liability insured. This is an odd thing to say, since a liability insurance wouldn’t cover anything in that situation. And it could suggest Peter Madsen had been preoccupied with liability questions.
Besides that, there are plenty of people attesting to a completely non-violent nature (even if prone to verbal outbursts of anger).
We should not be so quick to dismiss Peter Madsen's claim of a deadly accident. Under the wrong circumstances it doesn't take much to kill a human - even something as trivial as a fall can be deadly (rare, but not impossible). A submerged submarine is almost a living machine - a homebuild one even more so. There is undoubtedly many ways a person can get gravely injured, even killed.
This leaves us with the one certain crime: Kim Wall was dismembered.
While I find it hard to believe Peter Madsen could actually kill anyone, I have no problem believing he could dismember and dispose of a body (and be fairly calm about it) if that seemed the right thing to do. He does display some characteristics of antisocial personality disorder (he is not just difficult to work with, he is impossible). I will not try to make a clinical diagnosis, but having followed his relationship and subsequent falling out with various groups, I feel pretty confident he has a certain level of personality disorder (many semi-geniuses have).
That leaves us with the motive (for dismembering and disposing of the body).
Peter Madsen is personally insolvent after a failed business venture about 15 years back (relating to the sale of his first submarine). That means a company (RML = Raketmadsens Rumlaboratorium) apparently owns the submarine (plus workshop, tools, and whatever gear is needed to make and fly rockets). The exact business structure is fairly irrelevant, but RML and Peter Madsen are basically identical entities. It's a company set up purely so Peter could have stuff without owning it.
However, UC3 Nautilus has no registered owner. This is not a legal requirement for an experimental recreation craft, but it is in order to liability insurance for such a craft. I will deduce that UC3 Nautilus isn’t liability insured. A deadly accident onboard would have very serious implications for the way Peter Madsen has constructed his life (literally living his dream). I believe this could motivate Peter Madsen to dismembering and disposing of Kim Walls body. The dismembering could be purely practical – to get the body out of the submarine through a very small opening.
If I’m right in concluding UC3 Nautilus is without liability insurance, then Peter Madsen actually let something slip during the very first “interview” with the media (while he was being escorted away by police). He mentions that raising the submarine would be expensive, but that it is liability insured. This is an odd thing to say, since a liability insurance wouldn’t cover anything in that situation. And it could suggest Peter Madsen had been preoccupied with liability questions.
SATA
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Not pleasant to look at those fingernails now we know what happened to Kim Wall.
They caught my eye as soon as I saw that photo in the media - but I just assumed it was machine oil or something like that, never entered my mind it could be blood.
The police will know what it is by now, but they don´t tell us everything.
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I wonder if there are other examples in criminal history of people having dismembered a dead body of someone that had NOT been killed, but had died by accident.
It seems so over the top, but of course, PM is an over the top personality type.
Nothing is impossible I guess.
Logical_Inference
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Todays news.
Translated in Google:
Submarine scanned today
Since the submarine Nautilus was rescued from seven meters deep in Køge Bay two weeks ago, it has been the subject of extensive forensic investigations.
What the studies have revealed of possible traces are not publicly known other than that the police announced last week that they had found blood.
Despite the fact that the submarine had 38000 liters of salt water, it was possible to get a DNA match, which showed that the blood belonged to the Swedish freelance journalist Kim Wall.
Today, Copenhagen Police has received help from the danish tax state department "SKAT" in further investigations of Nautilus.
In the area of ​​Nordhavn, where the submarine is being investigated, one of SKATS's so-called mobile scanners this morning was expelled, Ekstra Bladet's man reported on the spot.
It has been scanning the entire submarine.
It is a large blue scanner that can be moved back and forth using a truck.The scanner is usually used to investigate ship containers in the fight against drug smuggling, used against smugglers.
In a previous description of the container scanners that operate on ports, for example, it has been reported that the scanners show all biological material in the containers with orange color while the rest is blue.
- We can scan 75 containers and find the 3 worth investigating, said the head of the scanner department Hardy Winter in an article at DR.dk then.
SKAT's scanner department has previously announced that they have two of the big mobile scanners, called 'Munin' and 'Hugin', and that it has been possible to reveal large batches of hash that have been tried to smuggle into the country in containers or lorries.
Ekstra Bladet has asked SKAT for the effort at the submarine Nautilus today. From here, refer to the Copenhagen Police.
Drabschef Jens Møller, Copenhagen Police says to Ekstra Bladet:
"We have studied the submarine. But several believe that in submarines generally - not only in this - can be hidden rooms. Now we scan and see if there is any interest in the matter.
At 1230 the scan was over, and the fence was again set for Nautilus, says Ekstra Bladet's journalist.
The submarine captain Peter Madsen is in custody, sentenced for killing, alternatively negligent manslaughter and unimportant crimes.
http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/ubaadsmysteriet-lige-nu-nautilus-bliver-scannet/6796843 (In danish)
************************************************************************************************************
Third person seen with Peter and Kim
The last hours of the life of Swedish journalist Kim Walls are another mystery that the Copenhagen Police are working intensively to map out. Now they may have come a step closer to the case.
It is now almost three weeks since the Swedish journalist Kim Wall stepped aboard the homebuilt submarine 'Nautilus' together with its owner - the Danish inventor Peter Madsen - and was seen alive for the last time as she waved to people on the quayside, and the submarine stepped out into the waters around the capital.
A week ago, it was discovered that a man on a bike ride had accidentally caught sight of something in the water at Vestamager, which turned out to be the body of a woman who lacked both his arms, legs and head. According to the police, the bodies were "deliberately cut off". A few days later, the results from a DNA analysis showed that it was Kim Wall.
Since then, the police have wanted witnesses in the case that can make them clearer about what happened to the 30-year-old woman and according to the Swedish media Expressen, a witness has told that a third person had been seen together with Kim Wall and Peter Madsen , who is charged with killing the Swedish woman before the two steps aboard the submarine Thursday evening 10 August.
According to Expressen, the third person was present when Kim Wall interviewed Peter Madsen for an article, which was the plan she was about to write about him and the submarine, and according to the witness, the third person filmed the interview with the Danish inventor.
The third person has also been seen by witnesses who have told it to Ekstra Bladet last week. At that time, the police did not want to comment on the case, but to Expressen, investigator Jens Møller from Copenhagen Police said that he had contact with the third person.
"We have got information about it and we also know who it is," he says.
However, he also finds that there is no suspicious thing about it.
"There is nothing strange about it. There is no suspicion of the person, "says Jens Møller to Expressen.
Friday last week, the police had so far received more than 656 tips in the case. However, the investigator does not want to tell what the work with the many inquiries and tips has led to.
"But we are welcome to receive more inquiries, we take no chances with anything. We are interested in talking to all who know Peter Madsen or Kim why they were together why they were going to sail in the submarine and if anyone has seen them together, "he says to the Swedish media.
Peter Madsen is in prison for "negligent manslaughter under particularly aggravating circumstances" on the Swedish journalist. He refuses guilty of killing, negligent manslaughter and in immoral intercourse.
http://www.bt.dk/krimi/en-tredje-person-blev-set-med-kim-wall-og-peter-madsen-vi-ved-hvem-det-er (In danish)
*****************************************************************
Latest news:
Dogs that can smell corpses is looking for body parts at Køge Bay
The police now uses dogs in the search for body parts from deceased Kim Wall. Together with specially trained dogs from Swedish police, the police investigate Køge Bay. This is what Copenhagen police said in a press release.
Translated in Google:
Submarine scanned today
Since the submarine Nautilus was rescued from seven meters deep in Køge Bay two weeks ago, it has been the subject of extensive forensic investigations.
What the studies have revealed of possible traces are not publicly known other than that the police announced last week that they had found blood.
Despite the fact that the submarine had 38000 liters of salt water, it was possible to get a DNA match, which showed that the blood belonged to the Swedish freelance journalist Kim Wall.
Today, Copenhagen Police has received help from the danish tax state department "SKAT" in further investigations of Nautilus.
In the area of ​​Nordhavn, where the submarine is being investigated, one of SKATS's so-called mobile scanners this morning was expelled, Ekstra Bladet's man reported on the spot.
It has been scanning the entire submarine.
It is a large blue scanner that can be moved back and forth using a truck.The scanner is usually used to investigate ship containers in the fight against drug smuggling, used against smugglers.
In a previous description of the container scanners that operate on ports, for example, it has been reported that the scanners show all biological material in the containers with orange color while the rest is blue.
- We can scan 75 containers and find the 3 worth investigating, said the head of the scanner department Hardy Winter in an article at DR.dk then.
SKAT's scanner department has previously announced that they have two of the big mobile scanners, called 'Munin' and 'Hugin', and that it has been possible to reveal large batches of hash that have been tried to smuggle into the country in containers or lorries.
Ekstra Bladet has asked SKAT for the effort at the submarine Nautilus today. From here, refer to the Copenhagen Police.
Drabschef Jens Møller, Copenhagen Police says to Ekstra Bladet:
"We have studied the submarine. But several believe that in submarines generally - not only in this - can be hidden rooms. Now we scan and see if there is any interest in the matter.
At 1230 the scan was over, and the fence was again set for Nautilus, says Ekstra Bladet's journalist.
The submarine captain Peter Madsen is in custody, sentenced for killing, alternatively negligent manslaughter and unimportant crimes.
http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/ubaadsmysteriet-lige-nu-nautilus-bliver-scannet/6796843 (In danish)
************************************************************************************************************
Third person seen with Peter and Kim
The last hours of the life of Swedish journalist Kim Walls are another mystery that the Copenhagen Police are working intensively to map out. Now they may have come a step closer to the case.
It is now almost three weeks since the Swedish journalist Kim Wall stepped aboard the homebuilt submarine 'Nautilus' together with its owner - the Danish inventor Peter Madsen - and was seen alive for the last time as she waved to people on the quayside, and the submarine stepped out into the waters around the capital.
A week ago, it was discovered that a man on a bike ride had accidentally caught sight of something in the water at Vestamager, which turned out to be the body of a woman who lacked both his arms, legs and head. According to the police, the bodies were "deliberately cut off". A few days later, the results from a DNA analysis showed that it was Kim Wall.
Since then, the police have wanted witnesses in the case that can make them clearer about what happened to the 30-year-old woman and according to the Swedish media Expressen, a witness has told that a third person had been seen together with Kim Wall and Peter Madsen , who is charged with killing the Swedish woman before the two steps aboard the submarine Thursday evening 10 August.
According to Expressen, the third person was present when Kim Wall interviewed Peter Madsen for an article, which was the plan she was about to write about him and the submarine, and according to the witness, the third person filmed the interview with the Danish inventor.
The third person has also been seen by witnesses who have told it to Ekstra Bladet last week. At that time, the police did not want to comment on the case, but to Expressen, investigator Jens Møller from Copenhagen Police said that he had contact with the third person.
"We have got information about it and we also know who it is," he says.
However, he also finds that there is no suspicious thing about it.
"There is nothing strange about it. There is no suspicion of the person, "says Jens Møller to Expressen.
Friday last week, the police had so far received more than 656 tips in the case. However, the investigator does not want to tell what the work with the many inquiries and tips has led to.
"But we are welcome to receive more inquiries, we take no chances with anything. We are interested in talking to all who know Peter Madsen or Kim why they were together why they were going to sail in the submarine and if anyone has seen them together, "he says to the Swedish media.
Peter Madsen is in prison for "negligent manslaughter under particularly aggravating circumstances" on the Swedish journalist. He refuses guilty of killing, negligent manslaughter and in immoral intercourse.
http://www.bt.dk/krimi/en-tredje-person-blev-set-med-kim-wall-og-peter-madsen-vi-ved-hvem-det-er (In danish)
*****************************************************************
Latest news:
Dogs that can smell corpses is looking for body parts at Køge Bay
The police now uses dogs in the search for body parts from deceased Kim Wall. Together with specially trained dogs from Swedish police, the police investigate Køge Bay. This is what Copenhagen police said in a press release.
I did a quick search a few days ago and found one from Canada, where someone who died from an overdose was dismembered by "a friend". I also seem to remember someone dismembering his mother for storage in the freezer, so he could continue to claim her pension.
I'm pretty sure it's very unusual, but I'm equally confident you can find them peppered throughout criminal history.
Logical_Inference
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Both examples has a clear motive. The first: I need to hide that I gave my friend an overdose. Number Two: I need my moms pension.
If only we knew what motive PM have had to either kill Kim or to just dismember her, then we would be able to understand better.
If he only dismembered her, then why did he lie and why did he want to hide the body? Somehow he must have known that something wasnt right about it all.
SATA
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He not "only" dismembered her. He tied a chain/chains around her torso and PUNCTURED her body in several places, then dumped her in the ocean - bit by bit.
If you can do such autrocious things to another human being, I can easily see you killing.
P.S. Just heard that the police has a theory that a weapon was used to kill Kim Wall and that they are searching for it.
I don´t know the reason for that, but there must be one.
If you can do such autrocious things to another human being, I can easily see you killing.
P.S. Just heard that the police has a theory that a weapon was used to kill Kim Wall and that they are searching for it.
I don´t know the reason for that, but there must be one.
As I wrote earlier, I believe the motive for dismembering and disposing of the body was purely egocentric. Peter Madsen did not want to lose what he had built up (the rocket lab and associated projects was his entire life).
Logical_Inference
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Yeah, I understand what you mean.
If this is just an accident then he really did a mess of it.
Absolutely - and it might give him a murder conviction (even if it really was an accident).
What we know so far is that Peter Madsen dismembered and mutilated the body to ensure it wouldn't be found (luckily it was). This is pretty much unquestionable. The police, and plenty of armchair detectives, suspect this was because he killed her. That does make a lot of sense, but it is not the only possible scenario.
Peter Madsen's lawyer has said he want's his version of events out in public, but for now that information remains confidential. There is a very good chance the doors will be open on his next court appearance (September 5), since there isn't a reason to close them. We should all be wiser then.
Saying that; the police technicians has investigated the submarine and seemingly found nothing that positively confirm Peter Madsen's own story - otherwise they wouldn't still charge him with murder.
Edit: it's noteworthy that Peter Madsen claims he "buried her at sea". That seem to indicate some form of disconnection from reality. In no way, shape, or form would anyone describe what happened as a funeral.
SATA
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I will have a hard time believing anything he has to say.
His lawyer also said he was happy that Kim Wall´s torso had been found. Sure.
Logical_Inference
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The "buried at sea" should come from his lawyer, according to tv2-news, not himself. She did apparently think that it sounded better than his story.
That is a different story though with his lawyer, because why did he want her and no one else to defend him?
It could ofcourse be because he thought she was very good, but she has never defended in a murder-case before.
It could also be that he is so much a psycopath so that he think he can manipulate with his defense.
Every other news outlet says it's his words from the court record. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
He might know the lawyer privately from somewhere. Otherwise it's an odd request.
I understand that, but the suspects story is important in any case. It cannot just be dismissed with "I don't believe him".
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