*DEVELOPING*CO Shooting at Movie Theater #3

[laura08]

Since being held in the Arapahoe County Jail, Holmes has been spitting at the officers so much, they are forced to use a spit guard on Holmes when they have to move him.

The bizarre actions by the former Ph.D student accused of killing 12 people and wounding 58 is seen by some as signs of psychosis -- or that he's faking it Video at link also and more info\But Randazzo also said there was a third possibility. He might simply be faking it.

"It's possible," she said when asked if Holmes' behavior could be all an act. "It is possible. We'll leave that open," she said, adding that most people who lie about that sort of behavior are sociopaths and "What we've heard about his history does not suggest sociopath at all."

"Let's keep that in mind that he was studying neuroscience. He was studying exactly the type of brain issues that we're going to be talking about throughout this whole case," she said


http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holm...officers-forcing-spit-guard/story?id=16844456

 

[katydid23]

There is no evidence that he did anything at his school that was any cause for great alarm

Other than uncharactertically fail suddenly, withdraw suddenly, UPS all of a sudden there all the time! !

We don't know if he failed out. And if he did fail at the end of his first year, then it would not be odd that he withdrew from the program.

The UPS packages might have been odd, but hardly enough evidence of an upcoming massacre.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

There is no evidence that he did anything at his school that was any cause for great alarm

Other than uncharactertically fail suddenly, withdraw suddenly, UPS all of a sudden there all the time! !

But truth is, it happens. It happened to 2 guys in my class and they're doing fine in other professions now. But grad school isn't for everyone, first of all. Some people get there and realize it isn't what they wanted. Even I, who am still in the program, had a VERY rough first year. Second, if you saw someone's academics gradually deteriorating, would it be that bizarre if he withdrew? I'd be more puzzled if he did great, then failed comps and immediately withdrew.

 

[PATX]

I am so sorry but heck its been an interesting day! Please take no offense but it is funny!

I just saw this

everyone pause for one second:

You don't scare me. I'm married to a redhead!

I am playing with you but wow red hair a buzz these days huh! AHhh

Wow....I never even caught that myself! I had forgotten that was on my signature. (It was before the "event"...)

Sorry if I offended anyone with it!

 

[katydid23]

Wow....I never even caught that myself! I had forgotten that was on my signature. (It was before the "event"...)

Sorry if I offended anyone with it!

I am not offended, and I am a redhead. [ well, just to cover the gray...]

 

[CARIIS]

With all due respect, yes it is giving up academic stuff.

The fact that you had the student in class means that you are confirming their schedule. That is an educational record. Their behavior and attendence (or disciplinary history with the school) are also educational records.

The law applies to all schools that receive funds under an applicable program of the U.S. Department of Education
http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

Anyone know if they do?

same source:
schools must have written permission .....release any information from a student's education record......except under the following conditions
in cases of health and safety emergencies

I do not know having the biggest mass murderer in your program might make it not illigal for anyone on your staff to discuss the alledged murderers being there ??

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Educationial records are one thing, I am not advocating that -- faculity knows the law -- but being prohibited from sharing their observations about someones behavior changes is not giving up academic stuff

ANd if all that is true why would faculiyt be ordered not to say anything?

Because in this day and age, it's more and more common for a company/school/individual to withhold comment on big criminal cases. Partly because they don't want to be involved, partly because maybe they will respect the judicial process, etc.

This is more common now. It's basically standard. Any decent size company or school's legal department will recommend this. I sure would! There is no need for them to speak to the media. (Sure, we want to know because we're curious and want to figure out the WHY, but it will come out during the judicial process, if it's relevant.)

JMO

 

[panthera]

Since being held in the Arapahoe County Jail, Holmes has been spitting at the officers so much, they are forced to use a spit guard on Holmes when they have to move him.

The bizarre actions by the former Ph.D student accused of killing 12 people and wounding 58 is seen by some as signs of psychosis -- or that he's faking it Video at link also and more info
http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holm...officers-forcing-spit-guard/story?id=16844456

BBM

Agree. The planning was too calculated and methodical for him to be suffering some type of psychotic break. Could it be he purposefully advanced his academics to the point where he would receive a grant with which to fund his "plan", and studied enough to be able to try to convincingly fake insanity?

MOO

 

[PATX]

The law applies to all schools that receive funds under an applicable program of the U.S. Department of Education
http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

Anyone know if they do?

same source:
schools must have written permission .....release any information from a student's education record......except under the following conditions
in cases of health and safety emergencies

Yes, they do receive Federal funds at this particular school. As to the second bit, there is no emergency now. He is in custody. Prior to that, none of his behavior would rise to the level of an emergency.

BUT....you are right about the money aspect of it. If the school were to disclose too much and find themselves in violation of this, he "might" have a legal cause of action against them. (As screwed up as that would be....) But we've had weird lawsuits filed in this country before.

So yes, the school is doing a bit of CYA, which is probably natural given the circumstances, but there are some legal reasons for doing so.

 

[JBean]

RE: all the more reason to call and report him to LE.

If you saw someone swerving in traffic would ya call someone?
Someone clutching their chest plummeting to the ground would you call someone?
Someone having a convulsion?
Someone bleeding profusely?
It was just posted (gotta go check out not really sure I think we would have heard this before) but he is screaming. If you passed someone that was just on a sidewalk screaming at people would you call someone? That is all I am saying !
Usually all this falls to LE so does what follows:

civil commitment is a legal process through which an individual with symptoms of severe mental illness is court-ordered into treatment in a hospital (inpatient) or in the community (outpatient).
proceedings often follow a period of emergency hospitalization during which an individual with acute psychiatric symptoms is confined for a relatively short duration (e.g. 72 hours) in
stabilization (any of us believe blowing away 70 people indicates emotionial stablilty?)
A common reason given for involuntary commitment is to prevent danger to the individual or society (for the protection of members of the public)




)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment#Containment_of_danger

I don't know about Colorado but here in California all that is extremely difficult even when someone actually is exhibiting signs. I cannot even tell you how hard it is with an adult.
We don't even know what signs he was showing,if any, that would prompt anyone to take on such a task.

Even if someone is suicidal and you bring them to ER all the doctor says is are you suicidal? if they say no I am not then -that is the end of that. Trying to prove incompetence through court is very hard and rightfully so!

 

[CARIIS]

We don't know if he failed out. And if he did fail at the end of his first year, then it would not be odd that he withdrew from the program.

The UPS packages might have been odd, but hardly enough evidence of an upcoming massacre.

while those who don’t do well meet with advisers and discuss their options, including retaking the exam. http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/07/23/dark-knight-rises-aurora-shooting-james-holmes/

We do know he failed widely reported:
after he took his first year oral exam, which he reportedly failed.

Reporters questioned

Shur and University of Colorado-Denver Chancellor Don Elliman closely about whether faculty noticed signs of mental illness in Holmes, but the university is declining to say anything specific about the former student. Shur said that graduate students are part of a "family" and generally see their advisers every single day.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...ndling-james-holmes-withdrawal-205251926.html

an option in my opin ANYONE who got themselves into grad school would take:

Shur said that students who fail oral exams are offered help to retake it. "The exam is not to throw students out," ....it's "very unusual" for a student to drop out of one of CU's graduate programs. ...

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...ndling-james-holmes-withdrawal-205251926.html

 

[CARIIS]

Yes, they do receive Federal funds at this particular school. As to the second bit, there is no emergency now. He is in custody. Prior to that, none of his behavior would rise to the level of an emergency.

BUT....you are right about the money aspect of it. If the school were to disclose too much and find themselves in violation of this, he "might" have a legal cause of action against them. (As screwed up as that would be....) But we've had weird lawsuits filed in this country before.

So yes, the school is doing a bit of CYA, which is probably natural given the circumstances, but there are some legal reasons for doing so.

the level of an emergency.


Ahh they said nothing from day one , IMO if I had the alledged biggest mass murderer in history in my program I would want my faculity talking................!!

If that does not qualify as an emergency help us all !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PATX]

To qualify my statement....none of his behavior on campus would rise to the level of an emergency.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

WHAT did he do that the school would consider a LE emergency?

-Failed an exam?
-Withdrew from the program?
-Oh, had some (we don't know how many packages were sent to school vs his home) packages sent to the school?
-He was quiet and shy; maybe was "stubborn"?

What am I not getting? Where is a LE emergency to have his mental health questioned?

FACTS...what else do we know that the school would have known?????

 

[CARIIS]

I don't know about Colorado but here in California all that is extremely difficult even when someone actually is exhibiting signs. I cannot even tell you how hard it is with an adult.
We don't even know what signs he was showing,if any, that would prompt anyone to take on such a task.

Even if someone is suicidal and you bring them to ER all the doctor says is are you suicidal? if they say no I am not then -that is the end of that. Trying to prove incompetence through court is very hard and rightfully so!

But .... I am coming IMO from the notion that there were clear signs like dishevled, wide eyed, you know what I am saying. !! or even to (speculating) point of when asked those questions not even have insight to not say I am the joker

Yes yes all speculation, but in my mind the severity of the act indicates a long long deomcpensation and people are now (gun guys) coming forward and saying yeh we noticied him -- yeh he was odd--- yeh he was behaving strangly etc etc and these folks are from weeks ago so IMO i dont feel like i am out on a limb believing that he has been decomping for very long time hence my frustration with school folks FOR THE LAST months to not check it out -- they would not be in trouble if they called LE a month ago and said hey we have concerns what ya all think.

Also this program is medical like so these folks ought to just my focus of study ought to be even IMO MORE talented in not knowing what acute decomp is, what it looks like etc etc !

 

[laura08]

BBM

Agree. The planning was too calculated and methodical for him to be suffering some type of psychotic break. Could it be he purposefully advanced his academics to the point where he would receive a grant with which to fund his "plan", and studied enough to be able to try to convincingly fake insanity?

MOO

26,000 a year is how much he recieved. Then spent 15,000 on guns, ammo etc the past few months. I agree it's possble.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Well, he left the school somewhere around June 7-10, so about 5 weeks ago. So they wouldn't have been aware of his activities for the last 5 weeks, probably a very critical time.

 

[laura08]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-totally-faking-sleepy-act-article-1.1120735

The accused Colorado mass murderer’s catatonic courtroom appearance was all an act — and not the result of prescription medications, a jail employee told the Daily News.

James Holmes, 24, was not under the influence of any medication during his strange 12-minute cameo at the Monday hearing, the source insisted Tuesday.

“We don’t just hand out meds,” the Arapahoe County Detention Center worker told the Daily News. “It just doesn’t work like that.

“If he was acting sleepy, he was faking it,” the source added

 

[CARIIS]

I am so sorry but heck its been an interesting day! Please take no offense but it is funny!

I just saw this

everyone pause for one second:

You don't scare me. I'm married to a redhead!

I am playing with you but wow red hair a buzz these days huh! AHhh

WHew I thought might be mad! A little levity !

We are all dealing with emotionally chargeds thoughts, feelings, beliefs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CARIIS]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-totally-faking-sleepy-act-article-1.1120735

The accused Colorado mass murderer’s catatonic courtroom appearance was all an act — and not the result of prescription medications, a jail employee told the Daily News.

James Holmes, 24, was not under the influence of any medication during his strange 12-minute cameo at the Monday hearing, the source insisted Tuesday.

“We don’t just hand out meds,” the Arapahoe County Detention Center worker told the Daily News. “It just doesn’t work like that.

“If he was acting sleepy, he was faking it,” the source added

I know we don’t know he was on meds but lets roll for a sec:

Ultimately, how long a person takes a psychotropic drug depends on his or her ... “We still do not know for sure how long is long enough to reduce doses safely,” Baldessarini said. ... or duration of action,” he said, and can take weeks to leave your system. ....
psychcentral.com/lib/2011/discontinuing...medications-what.../1


Just info!