Tadpole12,
A RDI theory would expect male #3 touch-dna to also be found on the seams of the returned size-12's? Note no Ramsey DNA markers are cited for either the long johns or the size-12's?
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Did John Ramsey carry the body to contaminate the scene or not?
- Thread starter Venom
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Tadpole12,
A RDI theory would expect male #3 touch-dna to also be found on the seams of the returned size-12's? Note no Ramsey DNA markers are cited for either the long johns or the size-12's?
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That claim has been around for a long time, Sunshine4Me. And as you say, if it were true, JB could have transferred it around herself. But there's really no way to say it all matches. The fingernail DNA (other than hers) had only about 2-3 identifiable loci. The underwear DNA had about 9-10, still a ways off from the 13 needed for a minimum match.
Sunshine4Me
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Thank you and everyone else for answering, you really cleared it up for me. I've been reading about this case for half a year and there's still so much to learn, I want to make sure my facts are straight.
midwest mama
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Not to worry. Many here have spent more years than we want to admit reading for at least half of each year, and then needing the other half to try to come to some sort of reasonable conclusion in our own minds in order to try to detach from the need to stay so emotionally attached to this case. Some of us will NEVER stop hoping for justice for JB, and welcome your continued participation in this forum.
PR said she changed JBR's clothes that night. Why is her DNA not present on the long johns and the panties? Of was it and that is just overlooked because of the most reasonable explanation?
If she was scratching at her neck, why isn't her DNA under her nails fresh?
If she was scratching at her neck, why isn't her DNA under her nails fresh?
kimi_SFC
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RBBM:
Yes, indeed. The thanks button simply was not enough, midwest mama!
:candle:
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One of the things we learned last night on the A&E special comes from one of the ranking BPD officers who stated that when he walked into the room, the first thing he saw was PR craddling the child in her arms and rocking back and forth. This is much different from PR's version where she threw herself on JBR's body and laid down with her, cheek to cheek.
Did JR intentionally contaminate the scene? Well, he moved the body when he was told not to touch anything. He handled the basement window when he was told not to touch anything. He removed the tape and attempted to remove the cording when he was told not to touch anything and then threw a blanket/throw over the body when he was told not to touch anything. I could understand the panic and wanting to remove one's child from the wine cellar but when viewed with the fact that when French tried to open that door, it wouldn't open because of the top latch, when FW looked in hours later, the latch was not a problem but was again in the down position when JR looked in that final time plus the fact that JR saw her immediately when he opened the door but FW did not and FW knows the body had been moved into its final position, I am of the opinion that JR knew where she was and moved her when it appeared that no one would find her only to 'find' her again later.
No one in the IDI family can explain the ransom note in PR's handwriting, using her peculiar language skills.
And no one can explain the lack of footprints in the fresh snow/frost. The photos Smit used were taken hours after the first officers arrived and the fact that the frost had melted from the paved pathways by then does not prove that there was no snow/frost on those surfaces at 6am.
Did JR intentionally contaminate the scene? Well, he moved the body when he was told not to touch anything. He handled the basement window when he was told not to touch anything. He removed the tape and attempted to remove the cording when he was told not to touch anything and then threw a blanket/throw over the body when he was told not to touch anything. I could understand the panic and wanting to remove one's child from the wine cellar but when viewed with the fact that when French tried to open that door, it wouldn't open because of the top latch, when FW looked in hours later, the latch was not a problem but was again in the down position when JR looked in that final time plus the fact that JR saw her immediately when he opened the door but FW did not and FW knows the body had been moved into its final position, I am of the opinion that JR knew where she was and moved her when it appeared that no one would find her only to 'find' her again later.
No one in the IDI family can explain the ransom note in PR's handwriting, using her peculiar language skills.
And no one can explain the lack of footprints in the fresh snow/frost. The photos Smit used were taken hours after the first officers arrived and the fact that the frost had melted from the paved pathways by then does not prove that there was no snow/frost on those surfaces at 6am.
zencompass
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Brilliant post Teatime!
In my opinion J.R. probably couldn't believe his luck that he could contaminate the evidence by carrying J.B. upstairs and of course removing the duct tape.
The R's did have success with the confusion and contamination they created by inviting friends and J.B.'s doctor over. They created a perfect storm by
doing all of this. It is unfortunate that the L.E. didn't see through this at the time however it seems to be that J.R. was an expert at spinning. He is
continuing his spin/scam but this time I don't think it will work. IMO
In my opinion J.R. probably couldn't believe his luck that he could contaminate the evidence by carrying J.B. upstairs and of course removing the duct tape.
The R's did have success with the confusion and contamination they created by inviting friends and J.B.'s doctor over. They created a perfect storm by
doing all of this. It is unfortunate that the L.E. didn't see through this at the time however it seems to be that J.R. was an expert at spinning. He is
continuing his spin/scam but this time I don't think it will work. IMO
Also, Lous Smit's theory that the intruder came in through the basement window, leaving that smudge on the wall apparently did not take into consideration that JR himself said he used that window to enter the house on a previous occasion, and broke the window himself.
And, Lou Smit's theory that the intruder was going to take JBR from the house in the suitcase makes me question the convenience of the recent re-location of the suitcase in that massive house and and just how a child would fit in it. Apparently, the killer came without much of a plan.
Not to mention the killer sitting in the house with PR's notepad and pen (having dug around for htese items) and writing the mother of all ransom notes when the child was already dead in the basement.
Attache'
And, hence
Southern common sense
$118,000.00
Fat cat.
Foreign faction.
We/our. I/me.
Be well rested.
Tomorrow.
Delivery/pick up.
Countermeasures.
100% chance of getting your child back.
Proper burial.
Swaddled.
Wiped.
Fed.
Clean, bare feet.
No fresh DNA under her nails.
Parents' clothing fibers all entwined in her clothes/cording.
PR's paintbrush
Only one sliver of window glass left behind.
Feces, feces, feces.
THE SPIDER WEB.
The broken window never brought to the attention of LE by JR. Ever.
And, Lou Smit's theory that the intruder was going to take JBR from the house in the suitcase makes me question the convenience of the recent re-location of the suitcase in that massive house and and just how a child would fit in it. Apparently, the killer came without much of a plan.
Not to mention the killer sitting in the house with PR's notepad and pen (having dug around for htese items) and writing the mother of all ransom notes when the child was already dead in the basement.
Attache'
And, hence
Southern common sense
$118,000.00
Fat cat.
Foreign faction.
We/our. I/me.
Be well rested.
Tomorrow.
Delivery/pick up.
Countermeasures.
100% chance of getting your child back.
Proper burial.
Swaddled.
Wiped.
Fed.
Clean, bare feet.
No fresh DNA under her nails.
Parents' clothing fibers all entwined in her clothes/cording.
PR's paintbrush
Only one sliver of window glass left behind.
Feces, feces, feces.
THE SPIDER WEB.
The broken window never brought to the attention of LE by JR. Ever.
zencompass
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Hi SuperDave,
I can't wait to read your next book - "How Things Fell Apart for John Ramsey. Finally the truth about what happened to JonBenet."
If anything I am hopeful. Seriously though, I do believe that J.R.'s narcissism and overconfidence will spin his "spin" in a different direction from
where he has planned it.
I can't wait to read your next book - "How Things Fell Apart for John Ramsey. Finally the truth about what happened to JonBenet."
If anything I am hopeful. Seriously though, I do believe that J.R.'s narcissism and overconfidence will spin his "spin" in a different direction from
where he has planned it.
By the time LA got over her instant shock of realization that the murderer was, in fact, still in the house - JR and PR had contaminated JBR's body, 2 blankets had been tossed over her and the basement crime scene was wrecked. Let not even talk about the friends traipsing through the house willy-nilly, cleaning up and putting things in closets, BR leaving the house with who knows what stashed in his things, everyone else in the house leaving without being searched and Pam having full, unattended access to everything in the house, taking a car load of stuff with her without anyone making a list or photographing what was being removed from the crime scene.
I don't care how many people you have searching that house and garage, it could not be done thoroughly in 2-3 days and PP was already taking things away.
I don't care how many people you have searching that house and garage, it could not be done thoroughly in 2-3 days and PP was already taking things away.
Don't give me any ideas!
I agree. I think this A&E crock WAS informative, just not the way they wanted. The average person watching this might say, "Hey, I wonder who these other people are and why do they believe the Ramseys did it?" and start researching. Probably wishful thinking.
The killer also thoughtfully placed the felt tip pen back in its cupholder after writing the ransom note. What a considerate intruder!
WhoKnowsWhat
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Well, he/she wouldn't want to be accused of theft!
reintarnation
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LOL! Excellent point, AndHence.
PositiveLight
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IMHO I feel he didn't do it necessarily to contaminate but to have her"found" quicker. I think he became impatient.
Ok LA asked him to do a thorough search from TOP to BOTTOM. I know that she "was just trying to keep them occupied and might not have actually MEANT for him to go in that direction BUT subconsciously wouldn't he want to follow her instructions precisely? I would. UNLESS I knew there was no reason to even go upstairs. UNLESS I knew exactly where she was. In the basement. That's exactly where he headed.
I could understand trying CPR but she was already in rigor mortis. She was cold. It was Christmas time. She was in the basement . She had to be freezing to the touch. I could understand if he tried CPR and realized she was gone and sat and even rocked her and loved on her while his friend got help.
THAT I can understand. But carrying her upstairs through doorways etc and her stiff? No it doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't seem like genuine behavior.
(My stomach wants to heave at that image!)
Like I said last night in JRs thread, I think it was all staged. It hit me when I was watching a video of his deposition. He stated on his first search to LA that he had found a broken window downstairs BUT he thought he may have done it a few months ago.
Wait what? He finds a broken window and he THINKS he broke it? He's not sure? How did he supposedly break it? He never is asked how and he never states it.
Then when LA doesn't take the bait and go downstairs with him to look at the window, he gets more anxious. Maybe hes pacing and fidgety. Maybe this is why LA is wanting to give them something to do.
He doesn't go upstairs first he goes DIRECTLY to the previously mentioned window and points it out to Fleet White and AGAIN states that he THINKS he broke it a few months back but again no one asks the obvious question..
HOW? (I'd remember breaking a window in my house!)
Then he points out the suitcase UNDER the window seems out of place. Ok.
Let's put this together.
LA asks if anything is found wrong. He makes the statement about the broken window but she doesn't take the bait.
Time passes again LA asks JR and FW to check the house from top to bottom. JR goes directly to basement. Points out the window that he broke POSSIBLY months earlier and that the suitcase is out of place.
Here's the kicker!!
There is broken glass on the suitcase from what it looks like during this video! I will have to get on my comp to post pic in a minute.
So! How did the glass get on the suitcase if it wasn't there months earlier when he supposedly broke the glass????
He was trying his best to have her body found quicker. No one was biting!
He finally ends up dragging her upstairs.
IMHO of course. That's the only thing that makes sense to me logically.
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Ok LA asked him to do a thorough search from TOP to BOTTOM. I know that she "was just trying to keep them occupied and might not have actually MEANT for him to go in that direction BUT subconsciously wouldn't he want to follow her instructions precisely? I would. UNLESS I knew there was no reason to even go upstairs. UNLESS I knew exactly where she was. In the basement. That's exactly where he headed.
I could understand trying CPR but she was already in rigor mortis. She was cold. It was Christmas time. She was in the basement . She had to be freezing to the touch. I could understand if he tried CPR and realized she was gone and sat and even rocked her and loved on her while his friend got help.
THAT I can understand. But carrying her upstairs through doorways etc and her stiff? No it doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't seem like genuine behavior.
(My stomach wants to heave at that image!)
Like I said last night in JRs thread, I think it was all staged. It hit me when I was watching a video of his deposition. He stated on his first search to LA that he had found a broken window downstairs BUT he thought he may have done it a few months ago.
Wait what? He finds a broken window and he THINKS he broke it? He's not sure? How did he supposedly break it? He never is asked how and he never states it.
Then when LA doesn't take the bait and go downstairs with him to look at the window, he gets more anxious. Maybe hes pacing and fidgety. Maybe this is why LA is wanting to give them something to do.
He doesn't go upstairs first he goes DIRECTLY to the previously mentioned window and points it out to Fleet White and AGAIN states that he THINKS he broke it a few months back but again no one asks the obvious question..
HOW? (I'd remember breaking a window in my house!)
Then he points out the suitcase UNDER the window seems out of place. Ok.
Let's put this together.
LA asks if anything is found wrong. He makes the statement about the broken window but she doesn't take the bait.
Time passes again LA asks JR and FW to check the house from top to bottom. JR goes directly to basement. Points out the window that he broke POSSIBLY months earlier and that the suitcase is out of place.
Here's the kicker!!
There is broken glass on the suitcase from what it looks like during this video! I will have to get on my comp to post pic in a minute.
So! How did the glass get on the suitcase if it wasn't there months earlier when he supposedly broke the glass????
He was trying his best to have her body found quicker. No one was biting!
He finally ends up dragging her upstairs.
IMHO of course. That's the only thing that makes sense to me logically.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
PositiveLight
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Here's the picture. I screenshot it because I can NOT find the original they used. Maybe someone has caught the blunder and the picture disappeared?
I want to examine the original picture to see if that is IN FACT glass on top of it. If it is... it blows everything out of the water. He tells on himself in his own deposition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl5Ll3sLFs8&feature=youtu.be
go to 7:22 when he starts explaining how he found JBR.
See what you think? Does it make sense? Do you think its glass on top of the suitcase?
JMOO:thinking:
edit for clarity:
He may have also been trying to make two people witness the fact the window had been broken months earlier possibly. He was adamant in the deposition to tell this. To make sure they knew the window was broken maybe months earlier.... why didn't anyone ask how he broke the dang thing??? I think THAT is very important!
I want to examine the original picture to see if that is IN FACT glass on top of it. If it is... it blows everything out of the water. He tells on himself in his own deposition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl5Ll3sLFs8&feature=youtu.be
go to 7:22 when he starts explaining how he found JBR.
See what you think? Does it make sense? Do you think its glass on top of the suitcase?
JMOO:thinking:
edit for clarity:
He may have also been trying to make two people witness the fact the window had been broken months earlier possibly. He was adamant in the deposition to tell this. To make sure they knew the window was broken maybe months earlier.... why didn't anyone ask how he broke the dang thing??? I think THAT is very important!
