Does Baez Actually Believe Casey is Innocent? - A Philosophical Discussion

[Sleuth5]

They know that she is guilty. Last week I got sick of seeing Atty. Sims hugging and fawning all over Casey. I called Judge Perry and left a message on his voice mail. I told him that Atty. Sims was being too personal and was acting in a very prejudicial manner, etc. I told him that this was a murder trial not a love-fest. I know that he received my message because Ms. Sims has not put a hand on Casey since.

Ohhhh, so that was you.

 

[missm]

In the medical profession, physicians in training learn very early on that there is a subset of patients that are unlikely to survive despite any aggressive or invasive therapy, without which they would surely die.

The overarching commitment to helping people in life-threatening circumstances, however, demands that aggressive or invasive remedies be administered in the hope that the patient's life *could* be saved, even if the likelihood of improving the patient's condition by employing them is limited or unlikely. (In the interest of avoiding totally unnecessary suffering, however, doctors are not obligated to perform procedures that they know are absolutely useless, or futile.)

And, beyond the above, doctors who are sincerely committed to ethical and humane care are taught to rationalize aggressive or invasive measures of support of a patient even *if* they feel that particular patient has a limited likelihood of responding to them, because they know that perfecting a technique that may not help one patient today may go a long way toward helping another in the future.

I hope my metaphor is clear. I think all of the above is at work in the DT's mind by their commitment to Casey's apparently hopeless defense.

BBM

Great post, thank you!

But here's the thing: do you honestly think JB has been a beacon of shining ethics in this case? Because I do not. IMHO he's tried pretty much every cheap and sleazy tactic in the book to try to further his case- from outrageous claims unsubstantiated thus far that will have potentially far reaching & life-long damage caused to other lives, to flagrantly dancing around the law, to trying to ambush the SA.... the laundry list continues.

Where does the buck stop? Are we saying that it's actually OK to do the wrong thing for the supposed "right reason" of defending someone really at any cost? Because to me at least, I fail to see the justice in that.

 

[Beyond Belief]

JB is just another one of Casey's imaginary friends.

 

[MissJames]

Thanks for that ... so he's part of the circus by choice.

They all are. Not a court appointed or public defender on the team.

 

[txsvicki]

I don't think he knows for sure that Casey premeditated the murder of her child, but surely doesn't think she's totally innocent of anything that happened. She wouldn't have confessed to him either, but told him the story that he's using for defense. I'm kind of tired of the media saying that Casey is destroying everyone's lives yet they say all sorts of things about Baez, such as he's narcissistic, had an affair with her, stupid, flirting, etc. I haven't seen all the interraction between Baezy and Casey but it looks to me like he's freaked out by her. Never makes eye contact, a forced smile, changes position, moves his hand, and has uncomfortable looks on his face. He has to know she's guilty and looks forward to not having to deal with her.

 

[MissJames]

They know that she is guilty. Last week I got sick of seeing Atty. Sims hugging and fawning all over Casey. I called Judge Perry and left a message on his voice mail. I told him that Atty. Sims was being too personal and was acting in a very prejudicial manner, etc. I told him that this was a murder trial not a love-fest. I know that he received my message because Ms. Sims has not put a hand on Casey since.

You were in good company. A sidebar transcript was released and Jeff Ashton said the same thing. HHJP said he was watching it.

 

[Panda's eye]

This is the thing that I just can't get my head around: a child could not be a more innocent victim of a crime. They truly are the most defenseless.

When you know what is right, and moral and just, how on earth could you aid a murderer to get away with such a thing, scot free? The murder of a helpless baby. A baby who had no hope of fighting back, a baby who had unconditional love and trust for the mother that killed her. It boggles my mind.

In order to be able to do his job, wouldn't JB have to believe on some level of the inmate's innocence? How can he possibly square it away in his heart, otherwise?

I will never understand how somebody can defend the indefensible.

Wonder if Mr. Baez had a child of his murdered, duct taped on the mouth, triple bagged and dumped in the woods like trash, for the animals to disarticulate, would he want someone just like himself doing just like he has done to try to set the killer free???......Just have to wonder that's all.....JMO

 

[RoseTree]

Absolutely not. They all know she is guilty. They're just doing their job.

With all due respect, I don't think he is doing his job. The job of a DT is to make sure that the charged has a fair trial and fair representation. To bring factual evidence to the table in a timely fashion and to ensure that the inmate's communication is protected. It is also to negotiate an appropriate plea when necessary.

But Roze, I totally get where you are coming from. I'm just seriously irked that JB wants to get iCA off on a bunch of bologna that in my opinion, he dreamed up within a month or so prior to trial.

 

[nitasch]

While I understand that everyone is entitled to a vigorous defense because that is how the justice system works, many of us are sincerely wondering how the DT can sleep at night with this case, with the monumental amount of evidence against the inmate.

Do you genuinely think that JB, CM etc truly believe that the inmate had nothing to do with Caylee's death?

Aside from any other reason for taking on this case (for fame, to become DP qualified, as a final swan song before retirement, for the potential income for book deals & interviews down the road, etc) do you really think in their hearts and guts she is innocent?

I don't know if this has been stated, just read the first post...
According to Bill S, he stated that when a defense atty first steps into a case, they do NOT ask their client what the truth is... they do the necessary legal work (first hearings, bond etc) then they want one answer, "guilty or innocent"
After that they ask what the circumstances are behind the guilty or innocent claim, and they build a case or plea from there.

To me, it seemed at least the way Bill S handled cases was to take whatever the client told them, and then try to build a case around what they said, without questioning if they are telling the truth.

Hard to say if he believes it or not... I think he has had three years with much help to coax more stories out of ICA, which she is VERY good at, and then tried his hardest to build something out of it with his team.

 

[Nosee_Parker]

He would have to be doubtful.

I get the impression he took the case on for notoriety and the chance to use Casey as a platform to generate $$$.

There's a saying in Aus - shoveling ***** uphill. Using this metaphor - JB would have know that this case would be extremely difficult to win. Just going by the facts alone (and I'm no lawyer) surely he would be aware that it would be an uphill battle. How can anyone justify why a mother. would.not.report.her.child.missing.for.31.days :waitasec:

So, my guess is his decision to defend her is 1) publicity/notoriety and 2) financial gain.

 

[katydid23]

There must be some qualified defense attorneys that have read what you have written here.

I, for one, would be extremely interested and appreciative of a response to your comments by one of them.

My Father, may he rest in peace, was a very honorable man. He was a well respected defense attorney for 40 years. He never did represent any rapists or child killers because he was not comfortable with that. But he did try some murder cases. And he also represented many clients accused of extortion, robbery and other criminal offenses.

When I was a child I was sometimes embarrassed by that while growing up.
I was a little ashamed of what some people said, that my father was defending evil people. I used to lie about his job. Then when I was in college I worked in his office in exchange for my tuition. And my eyes were opened to my own ignorance. There are a whole lot of innocent, needy people who get dragged into the legal system. Just because an ex-wife accuses a father of touching his daughter does not make it so. These are the people who need a good, powerful attorney.

And besides all of that, even 'guilty' people need representation. That is how our Justice system works, and if there were no lawyers willing to help the accused, it would simply fall apart. So I felt the need to say a good word for my father, maybe because of all those years that I was ashamed of his noble career.

ETA: My dad was on a very friendly basis with some state attorneys and members of the prosecution. He used to make a habit of having a steak dinner with opposing counsel after a big trial--loser picks up the tab. I went on a few of those dinners and things were always cordial and upbeat. These attorneys need good working relationships with each other. Most of the cases were dealt with by pleading things out and that takes cooperation.

Defense Attorneys are not evil people. They are part of the process.

 

[crucibelle]

My opinion is that Baez believes ICA's accusations of molestation levied against her father and brother. I also think he truly believes there is something "not right" about her brain -- how it works. To that end, I think he knows she is guilty, but thinks she deserves a "pass" because of the above two reasons. I think that he, at the very least, thinks she should be spared of the DP for those reasons. If this is what he believes, I have to say that I totally disagree with him.

 

[otto]

JB is just another one of Casey's imaginary friends.

That's good ... will jail be her imaginary office scenario?

 

[otto]

They all are. Not a court appointed or public defender on the team.

Since Mason said, prior to representing Anthony, that she could plead and be sentenced to life or go through the circus of a trial and then be sentenced to life, I guess it's safe to assume that he wants to be part of the circus.

 

[nitasch]

Did she have an opportunity to make a plea deal before the body was found ... somehow, that's sitting in the back of my mind. If it was a drowning, why didn't Baez jump at that - if he really believed that she was innocent.

That is what I have thought since opening statement from the DT as well. Why on earth would an atty let their client sit in jail for three years if it was an accidental drowing that her father covered up?

Maybe I am the one that is crazy here, but, If she were my client, I would have set up a conversation with LE directly after hearing this, to get them investigating that scenario, and get justice rolling. It would have saved his client, LE, SA's office, HIM, and taxpayers, a whole lot of time and a massive amount of money...

 

[Sleuth5]

That's good ... will jail be her imaginary office scenario?

Yes. She will style herself as an "Onsite Incarceration Events Planner."

 

[otto]

Wonder if Mr. Baez had a child of his murdered, duct taped on the mouth, triple bagged and dumped in the woods like trash, for the animals to disarticulate, would he want someone just like himself doing just like he has done to try to set the killer free???......Just have to wonder that's all.....JMO

He's probably confident he doesn't know anyone like that ... such that he had a child murdered like what happened to Caylee. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial, but there were questions about "fraud upon the court" after the defendant's (Baez) opening statements. George did not molest Casey and then assist her in hiding a drowning. I do believe that he taught her something about lying, but disagree that it caused her to murder her child and dispose of her in a swamp.

 

[Sleuth5]

That is what I have thought since opening statement from the DT as well. Why on earth would an atty let their client sit in jail for three years if it was an accidental drowing that her father covered up?

Maybe I am the one that is crazy here, but, If she were my client, I would have set up a conversation with LE directly after hearing this, to get them investigating that scenario, and get justice rolling. It would have saved his client, LE, SA's office, HIM, and taxpayers, a whole lot of time and a massive amount of money...

BBM

ITA -- but I'm not entirely sure he knew this new and improved story three years ago. I do think he should have moved aggressively to work with authorities as soon as he did, but I suspect that by the time he heard it (after the body had been found, no sooner in any case) the State was convinced it was a murder and weren't willing to talk to him about a plea.

 

[otto]

Yes. She will style herself as an "Onsite Incarceration Events Planner."

The Shackled Events Planner (HR). She could play house forever, having other inmates act as her soldiers ... in her imaginary world with her imaginary friends.

 

[Sleuth5]

The Shackled Events Planner (HR). She could play house forever, having other inmates act as her soldiers ... in her imaginary world with her imaginary friends.

Remember, she's always the "mom" of the group. (How grotesquely ironic.)