Ebola outbreak - general thread #8

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by Harmony 2, Oct 17, 2014.

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  1. annahanna

    annahanna New Member

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    If she had handled this situation calmly and reasonably, as other HCWs apparently have, she could have negotiated an arrangement that would have allowed low risk of contact activity like this. The California Dr on "modified self quarantine" is allowed to go jogging. Can't link right now but the articles are out there.
     


  2. winnnancy

    winnnancy Member

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    I would have been shot. I can't believe they're tolerating this.
    There was never any discussion about her background prior to university.
    I'm just wondering where this entitlement comes from?
    Apparently from skimming over google hits, this is not her first stunt as a political activist.
    I will not be buying the book
     
  3. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    IMO, she isn't doing this just for herself and her own comfort. She is considering the impact of other people in the future being forced into quarantine.
     
  4. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO MOO AFAIK etc

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    "Permission"? Huh? She simply had flown back to Austin. That wouldn't require permission.
     
  5. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO MOO AFAIK etc

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    It would be total BS to even begin to assert that such activity could possibly put anyone at risk. Smart on her part, to force the Gestapo's hand over clearly benign choices that cannot be questioned for safety reasons in any way, and see what happens. Create a precedent.
     
  6. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO MOO AFAIK etc

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    I doubt it. She's dealing with the same <modsnip> that enacted a forced quarantine for simply traveling to the Dallas area.
     
  7. faw720

    faw720 Active Member

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    It shouldn't require permission. The only reason that I assume she did was because she was met at the airport by a state health official. The health official must have had prior knowledge of her arrival. She may have simply called & said, "I'm coming home, are you going to throw me in a tent?". Considering what happened in Newark, that would be a valid question.
     
  8. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    Shot for what?! Can't believe they are tolerating what?

    An asymptomatic person riding their bicycle is zero risk to anyone and shooting her would be an outrage of the highest order. If she suddenly gets a fever on her ride, she'll turn around, pedal her little self home and call MSF as per protocol.

    I cannot believe some of the stuff I am reading here.
     
  9. Ladylub

    Ladylub Well-Known Member

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    I hope I will continue to refrain from speaking about Hickox as much as I can.

    I will say I personally think that she is more of a puppet for the CDC and everyone else. They all are talking from both ends so they need someone to be the voice that they want the public to remember. They found their person who has that kind of personality.

    If I say what I really think of her Lord the heaven would roll in here.
     
  10. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO MOO AFAIK etc

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    The fact that they knew she was coming is part of the protocol in place, regarding anyone who enters the US from WAfrica, especially HCWs. They are (supposedly) monitoring all of them for 21 days, and with HCWs there's probably a spotlight and ongoing interaction. In that context, it would be surprising if Texas officials DIDN'T know she was coming.
     
  11. Redbird

    Redbird New Member

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    This article from Yahoo this morning expresses my fears if we stigmatize and quarantine medical workers who are not contagious:

    http://www.vox.com/2014/10/30/71310...thing-needed-to-stop-the-ebola-virus-outbreak


    "You can buy equipment and supplies, but if you don't have people to use them, they're useless. You can build clinics, but if you don't have people to staff them, they'll sit empty. You can design an Ebola treatment or vaccine, but if you don't have people to hand them out, they can't save anyone. If this Ebola epidemic is going to be stopped, experts say more people need to join the fight. But as it gets worse, recruiting health workers is becoming an increasingly difficult task"

    If we can't stop ebola there we will soon have many cases here.
     
  12. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO MOO AFAIK etc

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    Wow, I agree. People are so casual about personal liberty. "Lock 'em all up, who cares whether it's truly necessary or not, we'll figure it out later." I think the total lack of concern is because it's someone else being jailed without cause, not me.

    I think we'd be wise to consider Ben Franklin's warning, that sacrificing liberty in an exchange for a little temporary safety, ultimately leads to neither. The power of being allowed to tell people what to do, when allowed to go beyond the absolutely necessary, leads to problems.
     
  13. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Riding a bike in a wilderness area is most likely harmless. My problem is, what if somebody wants to ride the bike, go running, go out to eat, use public transportation, in highly populated areas? How are they going to know the exact moment they get a fever? They don't have a thermometer attached to their forehead.
    Dr. Spencer was out and about the night before he got a fever. In highly populated areas. Amber Vinson flew while already with a low grade fever. That's cutting it close. Very close.
     
  14. Footwarrior

    Footwarrior Well-Known Member

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    Many of the comments seem to imply that Hickox is part of some dark and evil plot to bring Ebola to America. But such a plot would need to involve the CDC, Doctors Without Borders and other groups actively fighting the disease in Africa and the physicians that wrote the JAMA editorial that I linked earlier. The sheer numbers that would have to be involved involved should cause any rational person to dismiss such a theory. But when people are afraid, they often don't act rationally.
     
  15. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    CDC already changed their guidelines. I think it's obvious there is a lot we don't know about Ebola. It's a new disease for us.
    In Africa, current outbreak is killing 70 % of its victims. Yes, we had much better survival rates for a few patients that we had. But that's because we threw unlimited resources at treating those patients. Now imagine if we were to get more patients.
     
  16. concernednetizen

    concernednetizen New Member

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  17. Footwarrior

    Footwarrior Well-Known Member

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    Hickox presents zero risk of infecting another person at this time. She has no symptoms of Ebola. There is an extremely low chance that she will develop the disease. Even then, she would have to ignore the symptoms and expose others to her bodily fluids to spread the disease to others.

    Why would you believe that a medical professional with direct experience fighting Ebola would not put herself in isolation if she developed symptoms?
     
  18. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    What is a symptom? Dr. Spencer had fatigue for several days prior to getting a fever. Fatigue is listed as one of symptoms of Ebola. So was he then symptomatic for several days prior to getting a fever or not?
     
  19. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    How many people have infected someone at the "exact moment" they begin to run a fever? If this is a legitimate concern, why have we seen NO ONE in the US come up with ebola by simply "being around" someone who has just begun to spike a fever? Shouldn't SOMEONE around Mr. Duncan have become ill? He exposed 43 people after he spiked a fever. Shouldn't one or two or three have become sick if this fear is even remotely legit? None of the ER folks got sick-why not? They examined him when he was symptomatic-up close and personal, and not one of them is sick. SOMEBODY should have shown illness with that many people interacting with him in those first few days. Why haven't they? What about the people sharing the plane with Amber Vinson? If someone is contagious in the initial minutes or hours of experiencing symptoms, at least ONE of the hundreds of people sharing those planes should be sick by now. What about Nina Pham's fiance? Isn't tomorrow his 21st day? Why isn't he sick? Amber's family members-are they still okay?

    I think it is a VERY dangerous thing to deny people their freedom when they are not sick when there has been zero evidence that the moment they begin to show their first symptom they are a public health threat. It's not been even remotely shown to be the case and "well, I'm just afraid it might happen" or "better safe than sorry" is a pretty poor rationale for locking people up imo in light of the fact that there is no science that backs up that claim and no practical evidence that it goes beyond the theoretical.

    People keep saying we don't have a large enough sample size to conclude that people are not crazy infectious in early stages because so far we've only had 4 people exhibit early symptoms of ebola while in the US. But I think it's a great way to observe it. We have been "clean" and there are no confounding variables present. In other words, we don't have a lot of people sick with ebola here, so we can observe what happens with an early infected person without wondering if the presence of other sick people around them have muddied the waters. We have a solid waste management system, so if someone around a sick person in the earliest stage gets sick, we don't have to wonder if it was actually contamination from infected waste in the community. We don't have houses full of people sick with ebola to cause confusion as to what point Bob got sick because wife just began showing symptoms but Grandma is in the same house vomiting and having diarrhea. We have the perfect clean slate to observe if a person in their initial stages of ebola is in fact infecting others. And it just has not happened. The notion that the over 50 folks who were around Mr. Duncan after he began to experience symptoms and before he was admitted to the hospital (43 friends and family, as well as workers from ER visit #1 who were not wearing protective gear) have some kind of magical resistance to ebola just defies belief.

    This nurse is causing no harm to anyone by going on a bike ride. The fact that the thought of the police shooting someone in this situation has even occurred to anyone should be really scary to all of us.
     
  20. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    Hickox developed a fever at the airport, but does she still have it? I wouldn't think so based on her activities. Have people with ebola developed a fever that then went away? I haven't heard of that, but perhaps I missed it. From what I've read, the symptoms develop rapidly once they appear, not that they appear and then disappear. And, didn't she already test negative?

    As for Dr. Spencer, has anyone in the public contracted the disease from him? I haven't heard of that, but perhaps I missed it. I don't think he should've been in public places after he developed fatigue, but he did act responsibly as soon as he developed a fever.
     
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