Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #5

[SwampMama]

I wonder if maybe they found a hospice to put Jahi at. Based upon what we saw of the doctor report from earlier that clearly documented the deterioration of Jahi I would think that a hospice would be the only place that would even consider taking her. I doubt any reputable hospital wants to get messed up in this. As we have seen, only sketchy medical people and causes have joined up with Jahi's family and they all have ulterior motives for wanting the publicity to promote their own delusional views.

 

[NevadaMom]

I have already posted a reply to the comment about my post and I am not going to debate something which is obviously personal to you, but not to me.
I know that medical research DOES depend upon cadavers for many reasons.
I never said anything about recovery. Not one word.

I'm just guessing as to how it would generally be accepted based on what I know being part of an SDA family that has a number of folks in the medical field from a PhD in psychiatric nursing, a respiratory therapist, to a CNA. And out of the at least 5 people I can't think of a single one that would approve of this situation. It's totally a :moo: and anecdotal.

As stated in the other reply since Jahi's mother doesn't feel she is dead I doubt she would let her be used for research. Which is where the "recovery" comes in - the mother is expecting her child to recover from this based on everything she's said as of late to the media.

 

[jjenny]

I don't know if this article has been posted.

http://sandrarose.com/2014/01/jahi-mcmath-attorney-shes-in-very-bad-shape/

She was already receiving an IV in the CHO hospital.

 

[otto]

But mother obviously doesn't believe her daughter is a cadaver.
So I really don't think she would agree to any sort of research done on her daughter.

Just because the mother doesn't acknowledge that her daughter is dead doesn't mean that people she is currently dealing with don't know that her daughter is dead. They will, at the very least, document how her body disintegrates until the vent no longer makes any difference. That information might turn up in a research paper.

 

[K_Z]

Agendas aside.

Also respectfully. Why would it matter what a whole lot of people felt ? Does that supercede her parents wishes?

.
Well, state and federal laws reflect the learned and thoughtful application of knowledge to societal issues. (We hope, anyway! Let's pretend.) Passage of laws is intended to be long, onerous, and requires compromise and consensus. The ideas for laws need to be thoroughly vetted.

When one family believes it is their right to reject and disregard those laws, and demand to substitute their own ideas, we have an issue. And when that one family chooses to go about forcing their agenda and disregarding laws, particularly when the family is actively recruiting harassment and civil disobedience on the grounds of a pediatric hospital, then yes, I do believe that it does matter what a whole lot of people feel about it.

There are proper ways to go about changing laws. The law says doctors diagnose death in accordance with a lot of medical standards, and wrt state statutes. Ordinary people don't get to demand that they have the entitlement and the "right" to re-define what is in state law whenever they want, to suit their own personal circumstances. They are free to "believe" anything they want, but their behavior must be in conformity with state law.

In another thread, I gave the example that someone might "believe" that honor killings are right and justified. In certain parts of the world, honor killings are legal. However, if one engages in honor killings here in the U.S., they would be guilty of murder one.

So yes, in this case, the family has actively recruited public opinion. Many times per day the uncle and the attorney actively seeks out and engage social media, and mainstream media about the circumstances of Jahi McMath and her family. They trash a world class institution over and over, and we only have ONE side of the story, since the hospital cannot speak or defend their actions and their care. So yes, it matters, IMO, what a whole lot of people think about that.

 

[jjenny]

Just because the mother doesn't acknowledge that her daughter is dead doesn't mean that people she is currently dealing with don't know that her daughter is dead. They will, at the very least, document how her body disintegrates until the vent no longer makes any difference. That information might turn up in a research paper.

There have been quite a few of brain dead patients kept on ventillators already.
I am not sure why this particular case would be of any interest as a research paper unless something unusual happens.

 

[NevadaMom]

Just because the mother doesn't acknowledge that her daughter is dead doesn't mean that people she is currently dealing with don't know that her daughter is dead. They will, at the very least, document how her body disintegrates until the vent no longer makes any difference. That information might turn up in a research paper.

And what sort of hell could be unleashed if the mother discovers this happened? Doesn't it have to be authorized? That would be grounds for them to open up yet another privacy lawsuit if she didn't give consent, no?

Like Dolan is going to permit something to occur that might weaken their case that Jahi is still actually alive.

 

[MsSeal]

She was already receiving an IV in the CHO hospital.

But I don't know that the hospital was giving her antibiotics, etc.

But perhaps now the family can understand why they would not/could not insert a feeding tube.

 

[jjenny]

But I don't know that the hospital was giving her antibiotics, etc.

But perhaps now the family can understand why they would not/could not insert a feeding tube.

The hospital's position was that since she is dead, it's not ethical to insert a tube into her. Sounds like the body deteriorated to the point it can not be done.

 

[shana]

Jahi McMath case muddies an already agonizing subject

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-brain-death-20140106,0,5643888.story#ixzz2pgjx4u7q

Media coverage repeating the 13-year-old's family's claims that the brain-dead girl is still alive have complicated an issue the public has had difficulty grasping, bioethics experts say.

 

[gngr~snap]

You live in California, right?

Ha! No. Georgia...

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Karmady]

.
Well, state and federal laws reflect the learned and thoughtful application of knowledge to societal issues. (We hope, anyway! Let's pretend.) Passage of laws is intended to be long, onerous, and requires compromise and consensus. The ideas for laws need to be thoroughly vetted.

When one family believes it is their right to reject and disregard those laws, and demand to substitute their own ideas, we have an issue. And when that one family chooses to go about forcing their agenda and disregarding laws, particularly when the family is actively recruiting harassment and civil disobedience on the grounds of a pediatric hospital, then yes, I do believe that it does matter what a whole lot of people feel about it.

There are proper ways to go about changing laws. The law says doctors diagnose death in accordance with a lot of medical standards, and wrt state statutes. Ordinary people don't get to demand that they have the entitlement and the "right" to re-define what is in state law whenever they want, to suit their own personal circumstances. They are free to "believe" anything they want, but their behavior must be in conformity with state law.

In another thread, I gave the example that someone might "believe" that honor killings are right and justified. In certain parts of the world, honor killings are legal. However, if one engages in honor killings here in the U.S., they would be guilty of murder one.

So yes, in this case, the family has actively recruited public opinion. Many times per day the uncle and the attorney actively seeks out and engage social media, and mainstream media about the circumstances of Jahi McMath and her family. They trash a world class institution over and over, and we only have ONE side of the story, since the hospital cannot speak or defend their actions and their care. So yes, it matters, IMO, what a whole lot of people think about that.

very well put, KZ

 

[Soulmagent]

Just trying to get to the essence...so it's a religious belief that one should be able to choose to watch their child's dead body molder for weeks, months, years -- however long it takes, and that should be socially/legally acceptable? No snark, is that the argument? If the answer is yes, there are a lot more issues raised. But I'd like to start at the beginning.

I was under the impression her body would only at most last months at most and the family has found a way to fund the care (outside of the 2 weeks it took them to get her moved)
Most people when put in the position do not feel this way an I have never considered this could go on for years.

 

[momrids6]

I don't know if this article has been posted.

http://sandrarose.com/2014/01/jahi-mcmath-attorney-shes-in-very-bad-shape/

Quote:
Dolan said Monday that Jahi is now receiving potassium, minerals and hormones through an IV. She is also receiving antibiotics for an infection. But she isn’t receiving nutrition due to “physical problems that do not allow surgical insertion of a feeding tube.”

Well, this means a medical pro with script writing privleges is somehow involved...as she was only recieving vasopressin and standard IV fluid at CHO.

 

[sherbetjello]

I wonder if maybe they found a hospice to put Jahi at. Based upon what we saw of the doctor report from earlier that clearly documented the deterioration of Jahi I would think that a hospice would be the only place that would even consider taking her.

When I heard Jahi had moved, the first thing that popped into my head was one of the clinics you would see here in Los Angeles. I have a few around where I live; open 24 hours, cash payment with credit line available, etc.

The Scientology slant on this from earlier isn't too out there now since a building is right up the street from the CNN studio. This is ALL SPECULATION--what if's and maybe?, and such. Hadn't really thought of that till Omari being at the CNN building tonight, and it is indeed where he is at. (I viewed the street view on google maps, and while that photo is dated, that is the place! I watch movies next door.)

If anything, if Jahi is in movement to a facility, or is at a facility, Nevada seems like a perfect spot. Nevada seems like the perfect border state for the care Jahi is seeking.

 

[IrishMom]

Off topic.

Minus 29 here this morning, with 10 mph winds. That's a -50+ wind chill. Gonna crank up the thermostat and pour more hot coffee!

Gonna do the banana test later-- kids put a banana out to freeze last night. We do it every year at least once. You can drive a nail into a board with the frozen banana as a hammer!

And I now feel like a wimp. It's 11 degrees here in SC. I can't imagine minus 29! However, thanks for the banana tip. My little ones will enjoy that experiment. :seeya:

 

[SwampMama]

What really gets me is that NOW the family reveals just how far gone Jahi is, like it is a shock to them. Did they not just have 3 weeks and over 7 doctors telling them just how badly off she was and that she had NO chance of recovering? I am sure that the medical staff was very open with them, telling them in detail about what was going on and how much more Jahi would decline from there. But did they listen? NO, they were too busy painting CHO as the bad guy, as liars, as people who were keeping Jahi from a miraculous recovery.

But now that Jahi is their responsibility, they can say how far gone she is. Well what did they expect asince she has been dead for over 3 weeks?!?

God knows I am not trying to be harsh on them when I say these things but they have gotten everyone in an uproar over something that never should have made it thru the first court hearing. I feel bad for anyone who is helping to care for Jahi at this point because there will be a huge scene when her heart finally gives out and it finally hits her family that she is gone and there is nothing they can do about it. I feel especially bad for her siblings if they are being exposed to the tragic and horrific condition of their sister.

 

[Peliman]

Looking for info on where she might be located I came across this little tidbit from an MSM story which really might not mean anything.

Alameda County Sheriff's spokesman Sgt. J.D. Nelson said that while he does not know where Jahi was relocated, it was his understanding that she was taken out of the state. He said that as part of the standing court order and an agreement with the Coroner's Office, Jahi's body would have to be returned to the Alameda County coroner's office in the event her heart stops beating.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_24853880/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-girl-moved-undisclosed-care

 

[Karmady]

I was under the impression her body would only at most last months at most and the family has found a way to fund the care (outside of the 2 weeks it took them to get her moved)
Most people when put in the position do not feel this way an I have never considered this could go on for years.

Ok...that's a start. So it's ok to go on for days or weeks, but not months or years? Again, not snark. Just trying to get to the core of the argument. This sounds like it's about how long we're willing to indulge a family to do what they will so long as it's not likely to take "too" long?

eta: and the "funding" is, imo, a separate issue that needs to be addressed in the context of whether the actions are moral in the first instance. jmo

 

[momrids6]

When I heard Jahi had moved, the first thing that popped into my head was one of the clinics you would see here in Los Angeles. I have a few around where I live; open 24 hours, cash payment with credit line available, etc.

The Scientology slant on this from earlier isn't too out there now since a building is right up the street from the CNN studio. This is ALL SPECULATION--what if's and maybe?, and such. Hadn't really thought of that till Omari being at the CNN building tonight, and it is indeed where he is at. (I viewed the street view on google maps, and while that photo is dated, that is the place! I watch movies next door.)

If anything, if Jahi is in movement to a facility, or is at a facility, Nevada seems like a perfect spot. Nevada seems like the perfect border state for the care Jahi is seeking.

The articles have said "she's settled in" to a care facility...checked in Monday morning...I live in the SE- so you West Coast members need to figure this out