Feces :/

[Mama2JML]

Patsy completes developmental questionnaire, and says there are no aspects of JonBenet's behavior or sex education she needed to discuss, and also notes JBR has no fears or phobias

I have 3 children, and only one is older than 5. I've filled out surveys, checklists, questionnaires, etc. on more occasions than I can recall. All of these topics, PLUS, are covered.

 

[expat79]

I had reviewed an investigator's report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny - housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother's first bout with cancer.

Seems Ms. Vodicka--among others--were busted by the po po over meth trafficking this past August.

http://www.timescall.com/longmont-l...t-police-net-pounds-meth-weapons-and-multiple

Makes you wonder what kind of nanny she was.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Seems Ms. Vodicka--among others--were busted by the po po over meth trafficking this past August.

http://www.timescall.com/longmont-l...t-police-net-pounds-meth-weapons-and-multiple

Makes you wonder what kind of nanny she was.

Vodicka's daughter was found dead about 3 weeks before JBR.

Geraldine Vodicka's daughter also died in Boulder in December. She was found nearly naked with her face bloodied and beaten, face-down in a construction ditch near the low-income housing project where she lived. The coroner ruled the death of the epil eptic grocery bagger - who was reported to have been an alcoholic - accidental. Police continue investigating, although Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby says he concurs with the coroner.

Boulder police say the murder of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey was the only homicide in 1996. Others aren't so sure.

 

[txsvicki]

Wouldn't Mrs. Vodicka be older? The woman arrested doesn't look old enough to have had a grown daughter back in '96.

 

[gramcracker]

IIRC it was during a depo, PR said that pineapple was JB's favorite snack and BR's was chocolate. I've thought about the chocolate thing both ways: she smeared so he couldn't eat it/she didn't want to share, or he smeared it because she wouldn't share. but, he has more of a history IMO. the walls, the too-large-for-her soiled pj bottoms found in her room. and I would think a BM equaling the size of a grapefruit is more likely the larger child's. it's just odd, all the way around. and the parents didn't notice "that smell"?

 

[pageantmom]

IIRC it was during a depo, PR said that pineapple was JB's favorite snack and BR's was chocolate. I've thought about the chocolate thing both ways: she smeared so he couldn't eat it/she didn't want to share, or he smeared it because she wouldn't share. but, he has more of a history IMO. the walls, the too-large-for-her soiled pj bottoms found in her room. and I would think a BM equaling the size of a grapefruit is more likely the larger child's. it's just odd, all the way around. and the parents didn't notice "that smell"?

I think Burke smeared it. Not Jonbenet.
My reason is this:

If the candy belonged to Jonbenet and she refused to share with Burke, I doubt she would smear it with poop to prevent him from eating it.
It was her candy, so that would have been pointless- she would have prevented him from eating it, but then she wouldn't have been able to eat it either.

If she wanted to prevent Burke from eating it, she would have either hid it in her bedroom in a place she thought he wouldn't find it, or, she would have just eaten all the candy at once in a rush so that he couldn't have any.

If Burke smeared the poop on her candy because she wouldn't share it with him, that makes much more sense to me.
Burke may have even found where she kept it in her room, and smeared poop on it to be like "Well if I can't eat it, then now you can't enjoy it either!"
I can imagine Jonbenet going to her hidden-away candy, thinking with relief that she had kept it hidden from Burke, but opening the box only to see that he made sure she'd regret not sharing it with him.

 

[Arnie M]

Wonder if the poop on the chocolates was tested for DNA ??

If it belonged to BR it would confirm that he had serious improper issues with his sister.

 

[taotoo]

Why wouldn't he just steal it rather than tamper with it?

 

[Arnie M]

Good point

 

[deca]

I did an impromptu survey of moms in a FB group I'm in.

No one has had those questions asked on a questionnaire during the age range of 3-5. One said they had those questions asked at around 10-11.

Not a scientific survey by any means, but figured I'd pass it on, FWIW.

Let me agree with you and add this:
I have two girls between the ages of 2.5 and 5. Not only have we filled out doctor's forms, but also numerous county forms regarding development (both mental and physical- we are talking like 25 page forms!) to get some help for the 5 year old. NEVER have any of these questions been asked.

At the 5 year old's last doc appt, the doctor clearly stated to me that their office, and in general, most modern docs stop examining the genital area at around age 4 unless there is a specific problem. He made a big deal about providing the girls privacy if such a situation were to occur and stated that they would make a female doc available if we wanted. Just FYI for all those reading out there! I am sure older docs (ours is about 45) might not do things that way.

 

[SweetT]

Dna testing of the feces would clear alot of these questions right up. Wish they would have done that if they didn't. The grapefruit size poop makes me think someone had some severe constipation issues. No child should have that big of a poop. No adult really should either for that matter. Could one of the kids been constipated and used their fingers to try and help the poop get out and then ate chocolates?I know it sounds gross but I dont put anything past kids.

 

[LookingHoping]

Did Burke have special needs? (I'm totally new to posting about this case and do not know details enough to comment nor pretend to know most of any of the details more than what I learned back when it was fresh and on the news). I ask because I've worked closely with many many kids on the spectrum and "control of feces" e.g. smearing, holding, hiding it and keeping it, using it, etc. This is not necessarily always to do with "Serious stress" nor abuse. This is a fairly common issue, especially with those in that old group from the DSM called PDD (pervasive development disorder) If he did, this could account for many items in this case, though he was only 9 the social appropriateness, understanding and social capabilities could possibly account for a lot...especially since his younger sister often appeared much more mature than her actual years.

 

[LookingHoping]

and No, never had those questions asked, not until about 12 yrs old.

 

[txsvicki]

B is reported to have normal behavior in school (Kolar's book). He was said to have motor skills problems related to not being able to put thoughts on paper or by computer. I wondered if that meant problems with handwriting. That 's all I know about any particular problems reported.

 

[DeeDee249]

Did Burke have special needs? (I'm totally new to posting about this case and do not know details enough to comment nor pretend to know most of any of the details more than what I learned back when it was fresh and on the news). I ask because I've worked closely with many many kids on the spectrum and "control of feces" e.g. smearing, holding, hiding it and keeping it, using it, etc. This is not necessarily always to do with "Serious stress" nor abuse. This is a fairly common issue, especially with those in that old group from the DSM called PDD (pervasive development disorder) If he did, this could account for many items in this case, though he was only 9 the social appropriateness, understanding and social capabilities could possibly account for a lot...especially since his younger sister often appeared much more mature than her actual years.

It has never been officially stated and there is no proof that BR was ever classified in any way, but many people think he displays classic Asperger's symptoms.

 

[gramcracker]

Why wouldn't he just steal it rather than tamper with it?

there's a larger/louder message behind tampering with it?

housekeeper LHP said she never picked up after JR: a pair of shoes/once, and he always put his clothing in the laundry chute. but PR/the kids: ay yi yi! the kitchen was always a mess when LHP got there, book/toys/whatever all over the place, their clothes/shoes lay wherever they took them off. so maybe those BM pj bottoms were another message from BR to JB. why not take them off and leave them on the floor in his own room? very disturbing behavior

 

[LookingHoping]

That or if he was neat and clean like stated (never had to be picked up after) he wouldn't want them in his room... so put them somewhere that to him was appropriate

 

[Tawny]

Why wouldn't he just steal it rather than tamper with it?

Kids can be mean to each other when they don't get their way. Kind of like the kid who breaks another kid's toy when the other kid won't let him/her play with it. Maybe he even went so far as to guess he'd get in trouble for stealing it but maybe she wouldn't notice the feces (just a hypothesis )

 

[LookingHoping]

I'm thinking chocolate and poo look alike, so a great place to hide it, but I'm simplistic like that

 

[gramcracker]

That or if he was neat and clean like stated (never had to be picked up after) he wouldn't want them in his room... so put them somewhere that to him was appropriate

I should have been more clear when I posted, sorry 'bout that. John was the neat one, BR was sloppy like his mom/sister

I was just reading transcripts again and JR was asked about the kids' bathrooms not having toilet paper hangers: remodeling, yadda yadda, light fixtures, yadda yadda, blah blah. all for looks downstairs, and one of the more important aspects of making toilet hygiene easier for kids neglected upstairs!