Fencesitters & Not Guilty Post Here

[mjak]

The look like broken people to me too. There world is broken and I do feel sympathy for them. I have always been convinced whatever happend to Maddie it was not a deliberate act on the part of the parents. However, I do believe the parents are not being honest about everything and this is making it impossible for me to believe in their innocnence. The timeline for the night with the friends is unbelievable to me. The behaviors of the parents both when Maddie was found missing and since then have been repeadilty odd. They need to come clean. If they sedated the children but had nothing to do with Maddie's dissapearance they need to admitt that. However, they can not admitt that now because that would label them both as liers. I am not convinced they killed Maddie but I am convinced they are not being truthful about someting.

mjak

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I really think that if Madeleine was autistic it would be old news by now. I really believe that the family would be screaming about it. Aren't medications involved? Certain special needs? I really believe that fact would have been included in the pleas for her return. Wouldn't an autistic child be extremely panicked - more so than a non-autistic child?

First off a BIG THANKS to Love Mama, for bringing up the possibility that maybe Maddie could have been autistic. Having an Autistic child, I immediately thought Maddie appeared autistic by her expressionless eyes on the few photos of her.

And to Brefie...no there are no commonly consistently prescribed drugs used on autistic kids except sedatives. Same with diet. Many parents do try and maintain gluten free, chemical free diets, but certainly not everyone, it's very difficult. Many Autistic kids, including mine are very healthy. As far as anxiety. Depends on the kid. Mine would go with anyone with a cookie.

My child at that age seemed like a very hyper 3 yrs old. Looked perfectly normal, and could pass as a regular kid...but to the people who knew him best, he was anything near normal. Many people thought my kid was just a spoiled little brat who didn't talk because he didn't need to. It wasn't until he entered Kindergarten did most people, (besides us, his parents) realize he really did have a problem, and it wasn't spoilage.

Over the years, there have been 100's of cases of parents killing their Autistic Child...it's a very real and possible scenario and was my first thought when I first heard about this case.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

There are rumors that Madeleine was autistic or maybe had Asperger's. Also that she might have been afflicted with a mild version of CHARGE syndrome.

This is of great interest to me. Could you post your resources? Where did you hear this. It certainly could be motive.

 

[Brefie]

First off a BIG THANKS to Love Mama, for bringing up the possibility that maybe Maddie could have been autistic. Having an Autistic child, I immediately thought Maddie appeared autistic by her expressionless eyes on the few photos of her.

And to Brefie...no there are no commonly consistently prescribed drugs used on autistic kids except sedatives. Same with diet. Many parents do try and maintain gluten free, chemical free diets, but certainly not everyone, it's very difficult. Many Autistic kids, including mine are very healthy. As far as anxiety. Depends on the kid. Mine would go with anyone with a cookie.

My child at that age seemed like a very hyper 3 yrs old. Looked perfectly normal, and could pass as a regular kid...but to the people who knew him best, he was anything near normal. Many people thought my kid was just a spoiled little brat who didn't talk because he didn't need to. It wasn't until he entered Kindergarten did most people, (besides us, his parents) realize he really did have a problem, and it wasn't spoilage.

Over the years, there have been 100's of cases of parents killing their Autistic Child...it's a very real and possible scenario and was my first thought when I first heard about this case.

Thank you for the info

Let me ask you this - if an autistic child was kidnapped, would it be something you would mention in your pleas for the safe return?? That's really all I was getting at.

 

[Siren]

I completely shocked at how easily people are accepting the practice of the McCanns drugging their children. One poster stated, "millions do it." That lead me to do more reading. I discovered that in the UK/Australia, they do have over the counter sleep meds for children.

If parents followed this practice in the US they would be arrested for child abuse! And for the poster whose father was a doctor, well, I was disgusted. I've been a pediatric nurse for 30 years and no doctor I know would have routinely given Benadryl to their children or advised a parent to do so just to induce sleep. You were abused. :furious:

 

[KOOL LOOK]

The look like broken people to me too. There world is broken and I do feel sympathy for them. I have always been convinced whatever happend to Maddie it was not a deliberate act on the part of the parents. However, I do believe the parents are not being honest about everything and this is making it impossible for me to believe in their innocnence. The timeline for the night with the friends is unbelievable to me. The behaviors of the parents both when Maddie was found missing and since then have been repeadilty odd. They need to come clean. If they sedated the children but had nothing to do with Maddie's dissapearance they need to admitt that. However, they can not admitt that now because that would label them both as liers. I am not convinced they killed Maddie but I am convinced they are not being truthful about someting.

mjak

This post is an absolute reason why the parents need to take a polygraph. Too much unexplained questions, full honesty here on their behalf can't be denied, they haven't been. I think we all ought to go to Gerry's web site, and nicely demand polygraphs. I dont' believe we would be out of place to do so. We know a crimes been committed, just not by who, and if they are the killers, they are criminals, already been criminally negligent, just not charged, and they should do this to take suspicion off themselves more so.

I say take the polygraph!!!! :hand: It's time.You've now been named suspects, do whatever you can to get the focus off of you and on the correct suspect if you are innocent. Do everything you can to clear yourselves.

Bless you for your loss. Of course you have an insight many do not.

However, most people who have lost a child do not have to grieve in such a public fashion, followed by cameras and crews of newspersons day after day, week after week. We have no way of knowing their private grieving process...only their public.

I will not judge them for that.

Gerry's voice broke in his last statement about Madeleine today (at the airport returning to the UK) and I felt his frustration and pain. My heart goes out to them.

Grief is different for people. Grief for a child, hmmmmm we're talking here a child, supposedly ripped from you and your family, no answers to her whereabouts, this long of a time, desperation, tears, pleas, should be apparent. They have all this energy to do all the activities we've witnessed in the media, but no actual hands on seaching themselves, no hiring experienced searchers to the extend I would be hiring them.

I would be sooooooooooo, and so would all parents, be going crazy. Ed Smart and his wife had tears many times in the media and on the talk shows before Elizabeth was found. Even months and months after her disappearance. They never screamed and wailed, but oh they sure wept, trembled and pleaded. No doubt about it.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I completely shocked at how easily people are accepting the practice of the McCanns drugging their children. One poster stated, "millions do it." That lead me to do more reading. I discovered that in the UK/Australia, they do have over the counter sleep meds for children.

If parents followed this practice in the US they would be arrested for child abuse! And for the poster whose father was a doctor, well, I was disgusted. I've been a pediatric nurse for 30 years and no doctor I know would have routinely given Benadryl to their children or advised a parent to do so just to induce sleep. You were abused. :furious:

I agree, and welcome! Now, if a child is overly tired, excitable, or in some type of medical condition that's hindering rest and sleep, a correct drug should be administered for that age. Drugging children repeatedly for sleep purposes, someone hasn't done their job in teaching and parenting.

Children that's had a full contented happy day, fed properly and are in normal health, go to sleep without alot of grief and (rig a marow). A made up vocablulary word I use when a home situation isn't being run correctly and theirs strife and cayous. Spelling is wrong, I just had a brain delayment.

 

[jilly]

Being an NG is a new experience for me! In this case, I'd say I'm more of a fence sitter, since I have no reason to believe either of the McCanns DIDN'T kill Madeleine. But I also don't see any compelling reason to think that they did.

I'm in the same boat as you Steadfast. I must admit though that I haven't followed this case as religiously as many very credible sleuthers here. Strong feelings here too because in all my time of being here at WS, I've never noticed a special thread for fence sitters.

The points you make are valid. It's going to be interesting to see what happens here. I just hope we all find out what happened to Maddie and it doesn't end up like the Holloway case.

 

[reb]

So Siren, why aren't the millions of parents who drug their kids HERE (prozac, ritalin, etc. etc. etc..) guilty of child abuse....???

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Thank you for the info

Let me ask you this - if an autistic child was kidnapped, would it be something you would mention in your pleas for the safe return?? That's really all I was getting at.

You're Welcome...I always look for an opportunity to educate on autism.

And to answer your question...yes, most people would. The social/communication issues alone are mainly the largest, and most debilitating problem for ASD kids. It would be a major factor in a search and rescue situation. BUT, if you accidentally killed your autistic kid because she pooped her pants for the 5th time that day, or because she wouldn't go to sleep when it was party time, (Both very common problems for ASD kids), You might just omit that part to avoid a motive being pinned on yourself...especially if you knew it wouldn't help in finding her anyway and it wasn't a well known fact.

I hope Calikid can find her reference to Maddie being in the ASD spectrum. That certainly would be a deciding leap off the fence for me.

 

[Brefie]

So Siren, why aren't the millions of parents who drug their kids HERE (prozac, ritalin, etc. etc. etc..) guilty of child abuse....???

Probably because they are prescribed by a medical profession for an actual disorder, not just temporary restlessness.

 

[Brefie]

You're Welcome...I always look for an opportunity to educate on autism.

And to answer your question...yes, most people would. The social/communication issues alone are mainly the largest, and most debilitating problem for ASD kids. It would be a major factor in a search and rescue situation. BUT, if you accidentally killed your autistic kid because she pooped her pants for the 5th time that day, or because she wouldn't go to sleep when it was party time, (Both very common problems for ASD kids), You might just omit that part to avoid a motive being pinned on yourself...especially if you knew it wouldn't help in finding her anyway and it wasn't a well known fact.

Thanks again. I ask because I did assume that for a parent, I would think that it would be a major factor and that they may be *especially* afraid for their autistic child. An abductor may very easily decide that this child is harder to conceal in a public place because of their unpredictability. I think parents would imagine that an abductor would be quicker to do the unthinkable.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I completely shocked at how easily people are accepting the practice of the McCanns drugging their children. One poster stated, "millions do it." That lead me to do more reading. I discovered that in the UK/Australia, they do have over the counter sleep meds for children.

If parents followed this practice in the US they would be arrested for child abuse! And for the poster whose father was a doctor, well, I was disgusted. I've been a pediatric nurse for 30 years and no doctor I know would have routinely given Benadryl to their children or advised a parent to do so just to induce sleep. You were abused. :furious:

I totally agree! I have a son who couldn't sleep but a few hours a night when he was 3, but we made it through without sleeping drugs. We got him up early, played and worked with him hard all day. Skipped his nap and a nice relaxing bath in the evening finally cured him. No drugs needed.

 

[Siren]

I just can't find any defense for the McCann's reckless disregard for their children.

Here's my quick take on this horrible situation:

The McCanns spent their days enjoying their holiday while the children were in daycare. This doesn't bother me, the children were probably well cared for. They would have been tired from playing all day. I expect they had more structure in the daycare environment than if cared for by their parents while they partied.

Then the McCanns would spend about an hour with their children, before drugging them to sleep and then leaving them alone in their beds and go off for more partying with their friends. I don't care if the apartment was in my direct sight and I could see the front door, I'd still be afraid to leave my precious babes ALONE!

The McCanns' apartment was several blocks from where they were eating, not just a few yards away as implied by the McCanns. I walked the distance as referenced on overhead photo posted here on WS. I was stunned to find that I was so far away from my home!

Then the hightly intelligent McCanns created a world wide circus to draw attention to themselves and Maddie. A series of staged events designed for the McCanns to perform publicly held the world riveted. Unfortunately, the McCanns just don't feel genuine to me. The poster who referenced Ed Smart's behavior was spot on. When watching the McCanns they seem disingenuous to me.

I don't know what happend to Maddie. But what I do know is that the McCanns should have left their sweet babes safe at home with their Nanny and gone one holiday to enjoy themselves. Spending one hour a day with your children is not my idea of a family holiday. But remember, the McCann's are driven individuals. They're both doctors and are used to not spending much time with their children. It's the nature of the profession. Doctors work 80 hours a week here is the US. It expect it's much the same in the UK.

So I'm off the fence and and just downright disgusted with the McCanns. When I look at them, what I see are two people who think they can outsmart the world.

Pardon me but I have to get off my soapbox now I'm going to be :sick: :sick:

 

[CaliKid]

I just can't find any defense for the McCann's reckless disregard for their children.

Here's my quick take on this horrible situation:

The McCanns spent their days enjoying their holiday while the children were in daycare. This doesn't bother me, the children were probably well cared for. They would have been tired from playing all day. I expect they had more structure in the daycare environment than if cared for by their parents while they partied.

Then the McCanns would spend about an hour with their children, before drugging them to sleep and then leaving them alone in their beds and go off for more partying with their friends. I don't care if the apartment was in my direct sight and I could see the front door, I'd still be afraid to leave my precious babes ALONE!

The McCanns' apartment was several blocks from where they were eating, not just a few yards away as implied by the McCanns. I walked the distance as referenced on overhead photo posted here on WS. I was stunned to find that I was so far away from my home!

Then the hightly intelligent McCanns created a world wide circus to draw attention to themselves and Maddie. A series of staged events designed for the McCanns to perform publicly held the world riveted. Unfortunately, the McCanns just don't feel genuine to me. The poster who referenced Ed Smart's behavior was spot on. When watching the McCanns they seem disingenuous to me.

I don't know what happend to Maddie. But what I do know is that the McCanns should have left their sweet babes safe at home with their Nanny and gone one holiday to enjoy themselves. Spending one hour a day with your children is not my idea of a family holiday. But remember, the McCann's are driven individuals. They're both doctors and are used to not spending much time with their children. It's the nature of the profession. Doctors work 80 hours a week here is the US. It expect it's much the same in the UK.

So I'm off the fence and and just downright disgusted with the McCanns. When I look at them, what I see are two people who think they can outsmart the world.

Pardon me but I have to get off my soapbox now I'm going to be :sick: :sick:

I like your soapbox, Siren. Like you, I just don't know why the McCanns didn't leave the children home.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Thanks again. I ask because I did assume that for a parent, I would think that it would be a major factor and that they may be *especially* afraid for their autistic child. An abductor may very easily decide that this child is harder to conceal in a public place because of their unpredictability. I think parents would imagine that an abductor would be quicker to do the unthinkable.

I know this would be my first utterance out of my mouth to LE, for the reasons you stated and the fact that Autistic children tend to be drawn to water, tight places, and often high places. If Maddie was on the spectrum as "Calikid" suggested, I find it VERY odd that that wasn't reported daily.

 

[Love_Mama]

There are rumors that Madeleine was autistic or maybe had Asperger's. Also that she might have been afflicted with a mild version of CHARGE syndrome.

Thanks for the heads up CaliKid..........I know the symptoms of both Autism and Asperger's......but have never heard of CHARGE. I googled it and here's what it says. When I read the symptoms of CHARGE ...........something caught my eye.....and it was what I want you guy's to read.
We may be on to something. Certainly two parents, both Doctors were be aware of something like this and it could certainly be a motive for killing her if they they couldn't handle a child with any defects!

One symptom is:
Coloboma of the eye (a cleft or keyhole-shaped defect occurring in one or more areas of the eye including the iris, retina, or disc)

More at:
http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/issue11-96/CHARGE Syndrome.htm

xxxoo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

snip....... Certainly two parents, both Doctors were be aware of something like this and it could certainly be a motive for killing her if they they couldn't handle a child with any defects!

One symptom is:
Coloboma of the eye (a cleft or keyhole-shaped defect occurring in one or more areas of the eye including the iris, retina, or disc)

More at:
http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/issue11-96/CHARGE Syndrome.htm

xxxoo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

VERY INTERESTING...hummm This could certainly be a very LARGE motive for 2 perfect, health conscious, vanity issues, swinging, Doctors.

 

[Siren]

(Stepping up onto teaching box now)....

Maddie did not have any outward physical signs of a hereditary disorder such as CHARGE syndrome save for her "keyhole" eye defect. Most cases of coloboma have no known cause and are not assocatied with a genetic disorder (like CHARGE). Coloboma can be caused by trauma or eye surgery. A very small percentage of people with coloboma have other inherited problems.

If Maddie had problems, they weren't visible. If she did have a serious disorder I suspect the family would have used this to their advantage at this time. She may have had ADHD or autism where there can be relatively few physical signs and mostly behavioral charactistics. (Physical signs based on still photographs, only!!!)

I just found out that Dr/Mr McCann was a heart surgeon. Does anyone know what type of medicine Dr/Mrs McCann practices?

Also, has there been any word from the McCann's nanny(ies)? Nannies can be such a wealth of information regarding how a family really lives their lives.

 

[haypaula]

At this time, I'm a fencesitter because the handling of this case, along with the importance of the tourism industry, which has suffered since Maddie's disappearance, reminds me of the Natalee Holloway case and ALE's repeated attempts to blame the victim and her family. Both agencies have been cited as bungling their investigations.

I'm not yet convinced the McCanns are involved in Maddie's disappearance, despite their poor parenting decision to leave their three small children alone while they dined.

IMO