Final Autopsy and Toxicology Report

Discussion in 'Elisa Lam' started by Conductor71, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    That was a great post by Sabpascu -- I miss her, wish she still posted. She had so many of those gems.
     
  2. Montjoy

    Montjoy Inactive

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    Agreed. And as informed and intelligent as her posts were, I fear that nothing can sway some people from their theories, as unsubstantiated as they may be. But that's life, I guess.
     
  3. margarita25

    margarita25 Well-Known Member

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    I think Elisa's case is quite multifaceted and worthy of still discussing opposing theories, whether or not they have already been discussed at length or not. That's what this place is for. Elisa's disappearance and subsequent murder is one of the most unique and interesting cases I have seen on websleuths imo, from the elevator video, to the hotel and it's history, etc, to the water tanks, the possible psychological aspects, toxicology, etc. I see no need for anyone to have a problem with people continuing to question things. I have been fascinated by her case from day one, and still am. I am not sold on any one scenario, while I do believe a mental breakdown/hallucinatory state of mind and resulting accidental suicide or whatever you want to call it (no foul play) is highly likely. Jmo
     
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  4. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    I actually discovered this information right after that post. My apologies, I suppose I should have deleted it? Thanks anyway for your response.
     
  5. December

    December Verified insider - Kathy Jones case

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    It seems to me if they thought she wasn't in her right mind, they would list it as an accident rather than suicide (edit: it was always listed as an accident, to be clear.). Going with that, maybe the explanation is she thought she was doing something different than she was actually doing. Because i thought i read some of her clothes were folded.

    This is just a thought, I really don't know exactly how this all happened except I do believe she drowned and she drowned quickly (this is in the autopsy as well).

    I have always thought more time passed between the video and her death. There seems to be an assumption her death occurred within minutes of the video. I just think more time passed which could allow whatever was happening to get worse. (I am talking hours, not days. So, given it was at night, not too hard to imagine no one saw her during that time.) But, that's just my opinion. I think it's worth considering though.

    Also, there is more than one route to the roof. There are fire escapes that take you to the roof. I'm just mentioning that in case new people don't know about it.
     
  6. sarahkate

    sarahkate New Member

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    It seems to me that someone does speak to her from outside the elevator, catching her attention & luring her out. It looks to me like that unknown person is yanking her by the shirt or arm, thus her arms are flailing. My impression is that she is led away by the left arm or by her shirt. It also looks to me like she is somewhat inebriated (I detected what appears to me to be a smirk when she is against the wall on the right & peering to the left, out into the hallway). If she was impaired, her reactions would likely be weakened. I feel like she was led to her death by a stranger. (This is just my impression & nothing more.)
     
  7. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    ^ You're right about the smirk.

    But (in my opinion) there is zero basis to assume there was someone outside "luring her out." There is simply zero evidence of this at all. All her movements are of her own volition. She counts down how long the elevator doors have been open by slightly, yet purposefully, bending back her fingertips (i.e. that they should be closed by now), and her body language obviously tells us that she was becoming frustrated (bending at the knees while counting down on her fingers, putting her hands to her head when she re-enters the elevator, etc.) that the doors would not close. She then gives up, and calmly walks to the left.
     
  8. B.B.

    B.B. New Member

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    Okay, but, what does it mean?


    Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
     
  9. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    ^ I don't understand the question. It means, there was no following her. Could you be more specific?
     
  10. B.B.

    B.B. New Member

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    Sorry, do u think she did that because of her mental issues?


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  11. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    ^ No worries B.B., thanks for clarifying. In all honesty, I think anyone -- when they are alone -- is capable of doing the exact things she's doing in the video. It's just a matter of passing the time: some people do some weird things when they think they're alone (I know I have). I really just think that she was playing around; almost joking with herself, so to speak. It's almost like how a person gets "loopy" -- they don't necessarily have to have anything going on mentally to act that way. Whether her mental issues had an effect on her mood (which was playful, joking) is tough to say; but even if it didn't, this is behavior that isn't necessarily tied to mental disorder or intoxication (drug, alcohol).

    I think it's also important to note here that, the video was slowed down. This all happened a bit faster than what had been released. The slow footage gives it a bit of a weirder feeling to it all, but in reality, the moment wasn't as long.
     
  12. B.B.

    B.B. New Member

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    I see. I've already heard about that slow down done by the by the police. Maybe to give a better view on her actions? Your theory sounds possible, and to be honest, in some lonely moments I recognise a behaviour like this at myself.


    Sent from my iPhone
     
  13. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    ^ Yes, in this context, the video is no longer eerie (at least, not for me, anymore); but rather, infinitely sad. Her playfulness exhibits an innocence to it all.
     
  14. charixma

    charixma New Member

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    I reviewed the medications she was taking for her bipolar disorder as well as many other details in the autopsy report, along with the facts we know so far.

    I just want to point out as a fellow bipolar disorder sufferer that she was on a few pretty strong medications, almost all of which I have been on or tried at one point. When I say strong, I mean effective. I don't know if they were working for her or not and I also do not know if she was correctly taking all of them leading up to her death; what I do know is that I'm also taking 6 medications for my disorder (the same amount she was) and I truly wish people would stop pointing to her mental illness as a possible culprit to her death. You can be Bipolar and still be a fully functional, healthy individual. I still believe she met with foul play.
     
  15. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    No one here has ever said this wasn't possible. I don't think anyone here ever meant for it to be insulting that her bipolar disorder could have been a factor in her death -- you're reading it as if it's a blanket statement on all people with the disorder, which wasn't the intent at all. Every person and every case is different. Everything needs to be taken into account when investigating a case, including the mental states of any or all persons involved in said case; you can't simply ignore or overlook it. One can argue it's an even greater injustice to ignore it all together and pretend as if it doesn't exist.
     
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  16. dogperson

    dogperson Active Member

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    I thought it was believed she was off her meds at the time? If so, she might have had a manic episode. I have 2 family members who are bipolar and the one who refuses to take meds often becomes manic and does things that make sense only to her---things that are dangerous and/or illegal. The other family member who faithfully takes the medications as prescribed is able to lead a full and successful life.

    If Elisa got to the water tanks on her own, and if the lid was off one, in a severe manic state could it have made sense to her to take her clothes off and jump in? Did she think she was going for a swim? Unfortunately we will never know her thoughts in those moments. But people in a manic state (at least those I've known) don't usually seem suicidal but instead are in a state of euphoria and believe they are invincible. She may have had a reason that seemed logical to her for going into the tank. It could be that an employee later found the lid off the tank and put it back on, not realizing her body was in there. If so, that person has never come forward, but to come forward would be to put oneself under suspicion even if he or she is innocent of wrongdoing.

    Or maybe she became delusional and thought she was hiding from someone? Or she actually WAS hiding from someone? I don't really think foul play was involved, as I'm about 90% convinced it was death by misadventure, but I'm leaving a 10% possibility open that someone harassed or followed her.
     
  17. halezya

    halezya New Member

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    Curious, why would alcohol show in bile but not blood? Also, what is the difference between the 'Negative' and 'Not detected' in the results?
     
  18. ripley666

    ripley666 Member

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    Is there any report of a rape kit being done? Not sure how reliable my sources are but I’ve heard there wasn’t, and also that she was not tested for ANY rape drugs even though she was tested for most street drugs. Suspicious. If you ask me she was raped by someone who worked at the hotel and dumped in the tank by someone with roof access (caretaker?)
     
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  19. ripley666

    ripley666 Member

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    I’m inclined to think (seeing as no rape kit was done and no tests for rape drugs were done despite it being standard procedure) that she was raped. This would explain the injuries to the anus and why she was found naked in the tank with her clothes (perhaps thrown after her by her attacker).
     
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  20. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

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    Where are you getting that there wasn't a "rape kit" performed? They performed an actual autopsy (not just a rape kit, which is obviously more thorough) and she was examined for sexual assault, which there was absolutely zero evidence of. Every person who dies experience dilation -- that isn't an "injury," but a natural occurrence upon death for all human beings.

    It's all clearly stated on Page 7 of the autopsy report in the very first post of this thread.

    Also, on Page 13, it clearly states that a "sexual assault evidence kit" was implemented. AKA, a rape kit.

    Please don't spread misinformation.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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