Fire In W.virginia Mine

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I just saw a update on fox, some of the widows from the Sago mine came down to Melville last night to offer comfort to the families of these miners staying at the church. I can't imagine the strength that took.
 
Buzzm1 said:
We used to have an experiment in high school, where a relatively small amount of coal dust, was placed in a container, and then by blowing through a hose, that coal dust was dispersed into the air inside of the container, then a flame, from a lit match, was then touched to that dust, and it would result in an explosion. This is the same kind of the dust explosions that are so well known in the graineries, and silos, of the midwest.

When you have so much fuel, the chance of an explosion, and fire, is very high. All that is required is that spark to cause ignition.

With the very high price of coal, there is a rebirth in the coal mining industry, and the safety precautions in some of these older, or reopened mines, isn't always what it should be. If you want to keep your job, in an economically depressed area, you learn not to complain too much. It isn't as if you can just go down the street and get another job.

When the Sago coal mining disaster happened, I mentioned that we would be hearing about more coal mining disasters.
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Are the West Virginia mines less safe than other mines for some reason? West Virginia has always been a relatively poor state. Yes, coal is one of our major resources right now and in the future, and to me it is just an crime that this is happening.

I hope the Union gets what it is asking for now in the way of emergency crews ready at each site and oxygen masks that will last quite a while. Isn't that the least these companies can do? Is the price of coal, up, up, up? I know natural gas is. Yes, it seems our technology for this should be better.

Hope it's not too late for these guys.
 
As of this morning's news, they haven't been able to extinguish the fire yet, as the fire is into the coal. Up until about 15 years ago, there were coal mines, in PA, that had been burning deep underground for decades, and decades. They are very, very, difficult to extinguish. In attempts to extinguish them, many millions of gallons of water are pumped into them, and even this doesn't always work.

http://www.offroaders.com/album/centralia/centralia.htm

Safety in the coal mining industry has come a long way. Just like the airline industry, the costs and risks are weighed before any changes are made. They can't legislate safety to the point where the industry itself, and employment in same, is stifled, and eliminated, due to the cost of safety measures.

With the increase in the price of coal, which mirrors the price rise in oil and gas, it was all but predictable that the coal mining industry was going to experience these types of disasters. Before the price increase, the industry, as a whole, had greatly improved their safety record, as compared to fifty years ago. Of course the industry was stagnant, which made it a lot easier to deal with.

The higher the price of coal, the more mines that will be brought into operation, and increased operation, employing more people, and the risks will be higher.
 
1. Ellery "Elvis" Hatfield - Simon,WV, 27 years old, 12 years mining experience, married, 4 children

2. Don Israel Bragg
 
indigomood said:
1. Ellery "Elvis" Hatfield - Simon,WV, 27 years old, 12 years mining experience, married, 4 children

2. Don Israel Bragg
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Indigo....I think Elvis is 47 and Don is 33......Don I believe has 15 years exp. mining and 5 years in this particular mine.
 
Sassygerl said:
Indigo....I think Elvis is 47 and Don is 33......Don I believe has 15 years exp. mining and 5 years in this particular mine.
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Thank you Sassygerl... :blowkiss:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06021/641980.stm

Authorities last night said they had not found any sign of the two men -- identified as Elvis Hatfield and Don Bragg -- who had been missing since Thursday night. But they remained "optimistic'' about locating them in the Alma No. 1 mine in Logan County, about 210 miles southwest of Pittsburgh.
 
Underground Fire Hinders Search for Miners

MELVILLE, W.Va. - Searing heat from an underground fire blocked rescue crews and threatened to collapse part of a mine as the search for two missing miners passed 41 1/2 hours Saturday — the time it had taken to find the bodies of 11 miners trapped in the Sago Mine less than three weeks earlier.

Nineteen miners escaped after a conveyor belt caught fire inside Aracoma Coal's Alma No. 1 mine Thursday evening, but two others never made it out. Saturday afternoon, there had still been no contact with the men. Crews drilled down into the mine and pounded on a steel drill bit, hoping to hear some response, but none came, said Jesse Cole, with the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration. A camera and a microphone lowered into the hole detected no sign of the men, he said.

http://tinyurl.com/cs47o
 
scandi said:
Why can't they communicate with these men to locate them? Even Greta said something like its sad something wasn't implemented since the last mine disaster 3 weeks ago, as she shook her head. GPS. Why do these men not have a GPS button on their persons? Doesn't it work underground?
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Nope, GPS does not work underground. Wireless communications in general do not work underground.

I wonder if the news is only reporting this because it's close to the other mine, or if it is simply that W. Virginia is a big mining area. But I'm quite sure there are plenty of mining disasters never reported in the national news - it's a fact of life. Mining is a dangerous job, and they're paid for it.
 
Thanks Details,

So do you have any ideas on what could be used to tell where miners are in a mine at any given time, except for the traditional tap tap tap?


Scandi
 
They often use wires, to carry a phone signal, but an explosion destroys them. They can put wireless repeaters all through the mine, but this has a few issues with cost, as well as a real possibility that they'll be destroyed when there is a problem as well. Signals just don't carry well through rock, and mining is a very rugged, damp, harsh environment, trying to make something that carries on through all that is a difficult challenge.

Nonelectronic methods are often used - such as when they hit a mining drill with a hammer, and see if anyone on the other end can also hit it with a hammer, but that's not very satisfying when you don't know why you didn't get a response - maybe they're dead, maybe they're sleeping, maybe they're not able to get to the drill bit - we don't know.

It's a tough challenge. A physicist who comes up with a communication that will go through solid rock will be a very rich man indeed, but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. For now, we need coal, we're willing to pay for it, and like many other risky jobs out there, people are willing to go and take the risk in exchange for the pay.

One idea that might be a help would be to scatter through the mine caches of emergency equipment - some food and water, oxygen, etc. That might be a good way to extend the time rescuers have to find the miners, and give the miners more emergency equipment than they can carry on their backs. But communication - I really can't think of a good solution for that.
 
A little information on Massey Energy:
Aracoma Coal Co.,is a subsidiary of Richmond, Virginia-based Massey Energy Co.

Massey Energy is the fifth largest coal producer in the United States, with 72 subsidiaries and partnerships in Pennsylvania, Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and Texas. Massey operates in many citizens’ backyards and has proven itself to be a horrible corporate neighbor. The company’s mining practices routinely threaten peoples’ lives and the health of the communities in which it operates.
<snip>
In addition to being openly anti-union (only 5 percent of Massey’s work force is represented by a union), Massey has been called one of the worst coal companies in America for miner safety by the United Mine Workers of America union, who also claim that the company uses contracted management to avoid paying workers’ compensation.[vi] Massey has been sued by its employees for overexposure to coal processing chemicals[vii] and has been investigated by the Mine Safety & Health Administration for chronic health and safety violations at its mines.

http://www.citizenscoalcouncil.org/campaigns/massey2.htm
 
That's very interesting, Shadow205. It sounds like a company with little concern for its employees, neighbors or the environment.

I'm glad that I no longer support Merrill Lynch, which evidently supports Massey.
 
Rescue efforts inside the mine were hampered by heavy smoke that cut visibility to 2 to 3 feet. Teams were able to get into four tunnels, each about four miles long, but they couldn't get beyond the burning conveyer belt.

Officials emphasized that there were key differences between the Alma mine fire and the Jan 2. Sago mine explosion. For one, the carbon monoxide levels, while still higher than normal in the Alma mine, were not as severe, Conaway said.

Also, the ventilation system continued to work at the Alma mine and no methane was detected coming out, said Robert Friend, acting deputy assistant secretary for MSHA.

That enabled rescuers to get into the mine more quickly. The gases at the Sago Mine and damage to the ventilation system had prevented investigators from entering the mine until Saturday. It will likely be another week before they can reach the deepest parts of the mine and begin the physical investigation into what caused the explosion, said International Coal Group President Ben Hatfield.
 
concernedperson said:
The miners didn't make it. Prayers for the families.
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I had a feeling. How awful. It's past time for some changes. Sounds like the governor of WV is going to see that major overhauls are done.

Prayers for these families.
 
Shadow205 said:
SNIP

In addition to being openly anti-union (only 5 percent of Massey’s work force is represented by a union), Massey has been called one of the worst coal companies in America for miner safety by the United Mine Workers of America union, who also claim that the company uses contracted management to avoid paying workers’ compensation.[vi] Massey has been sued by its employees for overexposure to coal processing chemicals[vii] and has been investigated by the Mine Safety & Health Administration for chronic health and safety violations at its mines.

[/color]http://www.citizenscoalcouncil.org/campaigns/massey2.htm
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It doesn't bother me that the company is anti-union, and I would expect, as has happened, that the United Mine Workers would take this opportunity to blast the company. They are just joining the rest of the companies in America who are finding ways around paying higher wages for union employees, and the hiring of contract employees is not unusual either. What probably needs to be done is have additional mine safety legislation, and to bring in a new crop of mine inspectors, as the other ones have been around too long, with the same oiperators, and have a tendency to overlook too many things.

In the meantime, there won't be a full scale shutting down of coal mimes that have safety violations. This would put people out of work, and then it would be the workers complaining.
 
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