FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[LambChop]

That's a lot of assumptions to make if they were both on the ground fighting and GZ managed to pull out a gun. You don't know what positions they were in when the shot happened.

I know from the witness, Mary C's interview that there was whimpering in a pleading way that sounded like a child right before she and her husband heard the shot. When they immediately looked out GZ was over TM's body. Had he been on the bottom TM's body would not have been lying flat, face first with his hands together which is what she saw when LE turned TM's body over. GZ's clothes were very important to tell LE what happened and they were not collected. How does a homocide detective determine what position GZ was in when TM was shot without GZ's clothes. It's evidence that was not collected because no homocide detective appears to have been on the scene. None was called out.

Mary C. said an officer asked them to write a brief statement and they were done. No questions were asked. It was only when misinformation was released that she called LE and no one returned her calls. Once she agreed to do an interview with the media it appears LE suddenly called her in to give a statement. Witness statements that first night are important and that is why it is handled by a homocide detective. They know the questions to ask that are important to their investigation. Apparently none of this was done. jmo

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

Proud young men period. The black part was unnecessary IMO. And so what if Trayvon fought back. I would too if a creep followed me in his car and suddenly he was there after I tried to get away from him. Trayvon's threat was suddenly close enough to ask a question. Trayvon was trying to get away from GZ. GZ's own words back this up. GZ's own words show intent and frame of mind. He wasn't going to let this *advertiser censored****** an effing ****s get away.

Thank you for your post. It's still being stated he was not going to be a sissy but how could anyone possibly know that? This is what bothers me about the whole case. The whole thought that for whatever reason TM had to be proud, or arrogant, or prideful, yet the articles about the gf call state he WAS scared. Nowhere did I read he was angry and went chasing after GM.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[LambChop]

http://www.ksdk.com/news/world/arti...Stand-Your-Ground-law-is-free-pass-for-murder

A tennis player at the park, Michael Whitt, testified things turned ugly when Dooley reached for his waistband. Whitt said James then lunged at Dooley. The two men struggled on the ground before James was shot once through the heart. On the 911 call, Whitt is heard trying to help. Shooter is Black,Victim is White.

My point was there is a difference between trying to defend yourself and trying to kill someone. Stomach will stop someone provided they are not also armed with a weapon but a heart shot can be instant death.

 

[songline]

Songline, could you provide a link to this information about TM being "dismissed for being in an area that was off limits"? I remember reading that he was suspended because of tardies.

I will try to find it again, I read it just before I went to sleep. IT IS OUT THERE.

<modsnip>


There are other articles this is not what I saw last night. I cant find it right this minute.

 

[mikeysmommom]

The problem is do they have all the evidence. They never returned witness calls to give a statement. Mary C. claims she made numerous calls to LE that were unreturned and TM was killed right off of her back porch. That is not normal for a homocide investigation. jmo

I listened to the 911 calls, If she is the last caller who was 14 minutes long ,she said on 911 tape they were wrestling.She also did not have anyone to call and wanted Police to call her to talk about how upset she was,maybe that is why she called numerous times. I witnessed a child killed by a school bus, officer asked me for my statement after I gave it, I read it before signing it.Had it been changed It would not have been signed by me.If this is a witness who is on 911 tape ,I would believe that over what came out later.She may be white and afraid of being a target.IF this is same woman she even said she did not want to be a witness IIRC.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Yep this string bean kid, 6 feet 3, 140 pounds soaking wet, armed only with a bag of skittles and a bottle of iced tea jumped this 5 feet 8, 240 pound grown man armed with a 9 mm semi-automatic gun. Yep, I can really see this scenario taking place. Thanks! You have totally changed my entire perspective of this case.

He's a football player and surely in better shape than GZ.

 

[jjenny]

I know from the witness, Mary C's interview that there was whimpering in a pleading way that sounded like a child right before she and her husband heard the shot. When they immediately looked out GZ was over TM's body. Had he been on the bottom TM's body would not have been lying flat, face first with his hands together which is what she saw when LE turned TM's body over. GZ's clothes were very important to tell LE what happened and they were not collected. How does a homocide detective determine what position GZ was in when TM was shot without GZ's clothes. It's evidence that was not collected because no homocide detective appears to have been on the scene. None was called out.

Mary C. said an officer asked them to write a brief statement and they were done. No questions were asked. It was only when misinformation was released that she called LE and no one returned her calls. Once she agreed to do an interview with the media it appears LE suddenly called her in to give a statement. Witness statements that first night are important and that is why it is handled by a homocide detective. They know the questions to ask that are important to their investigation. Apparently none of this was done. jmo

I am going to wait for an autopsy to see if what MC claims actually makes sense. I personally don't hear anything on 911 call that sounds like a child crying. I hear loud screaming.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Do you think Zimmerman was in a perfect shooting stance when he shot Martin?

I doubt he was holding the gun inches in front of his face.

 

[Isabelle]

This site is not msm but he has an overhead diagram of the neighborhood, truck, etc. If accurate it could be helpful. Moo

http://marinadedave.com/journal/2012/3/22/the-tragedy-of-trayvon-martin.html

I know the site is not MSM, but found it funny where GZ said he has to get a new gun to continue to be neighborhood watch captain, because police have his gun!

That map shows that Trayvon would have had no choice but to walk in GZ's direction.

Question: Did GZ see Trayvon leave to go to the 7-11 and positioned himself in a spot where he could confront him when he returned?

 

[jjenny]

I listened to the 911 calls, If she is the last caller who was 14 minutes long ,she said on 911 tape they were wrestling...

I am pretty sure that call was not from MC but from a different person.

 

[mikeysmommom]

My point was there is a difference between trying to defend yourself and trying to kill someone. Stomach will stop someone provided they are not also armed with a weapon but a heart shot can be instant death.

My point is if both were wrestling fighting over the gun and the gun goes off, unfortunately there is no aiming.JMO I was not there so this is JMO of how this could have happened.

 

[SuziQ]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...120317_1_shooting-death-english-teacher-uncle

(snips)
"He was extremely creative," said Michelle Kypriss, Trayvon's English teacher at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in Miami. "He just loved building things. He really was intrigued by how things worked."

Trayvon was under a five-day suspension when he was shot that Sunday night, but Kypriss said it was due to tardiness and not misbehavior.
"Trayvon was not a violent or dangerous child. He was not known for misbehaving," the teacher said. "He was suspended because he was late too many times."

 

[rossva]

Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.

“He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],” Martin said, declining to offer more details.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...yvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html#storylink=cpy

Songline, could you provide a link to this information about TM being "dismissed for being in an area that was off limits"? I remember reading that he was suspended because of tardies.

 

[songline]

Not sure how this is relevant to Trayvon's death. Do you have a link for this? Below is what has been widely reported in msm.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...ds-Say-He-Never-Picked-a-Fight-144089716.html

(snip)
Martin's parents kept a close eye on him, but they didn't have to be too strict, since he stayed out of trouble, Collins said. However, he had recently been suspended from school for tardiness, said his stepmother, Alesha Martin.

Yes I read an article last nigh, cant find it now, but I linked something above.

NO he does not deserve to be dead for that.
But lets see who he really is, and not paint GZ as an animal while painting TM as a saint.
That is not how we get any justice.

 

[momshrink]

The reason that TM was visiting with his father. Because he does live in MIAMI with his mother is
because he was dismissed from school.
Dismissed because he was in an area that was off limits.
I WONDER WHY THAT IS NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION...Seems to me this good boy was not always so good.

<modsnip> I READ THIS ON THE INTERNET last night.

Link, please. I thought Trayvon was suspended for being late too many times. My son who is in middle school has been tardy about 4 times this year. Every time was because I was not ready, not his fault. I am a middle class professional who is a good, responsible mother. I guess someone could blame it on the fact that I am a single mother.
No one is perfect. Everything I have read about Trayvon points to a good average teen.
Probably not too street smart or tough, just a kid like mine who looked forward to the prom and still hung out with dad volunteering in the concession stand.
GZ on the other hand has a documented record of violence, history of job changes, and sketchy academic history based on the fact that he is still pursuing a two year degree after enrolling 8 years ago. I also think GZ followed Trayvon because he was black and burglaries in his neighborhood were commited by black teens. This is racial profiling.
This is all MOO.
JMO

 

[songline]

My point is if both were wrestling fighting over the gun and the gun goes off, unfortunately there is no aiming.JMO I was not there so this is JMO of how this could have happened.

A perfect reason why he should not have been walking around with a gun.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...120317_1_shooting-death-english-teacher-uncle

(snips)
"He was extremely creative," said Michelle Kypriss, Trayvon's English teacher at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in Miami. "He just loved building things. He really was intrigued by how things worked."

Trayvon was under a five-day suspension when he was shot that Sunday night, but Kypriss said it was due to tardiness and not misbehavior.
"Trayvon was not a violent or dangerous child. He was not known for misbehaving," the teacher said. "He was suspended because he was late too many times."

Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.

“He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],” Martin said, declining to offer more details.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...yvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html#storylink=cpy

Two different media sources - the Orlando Sentinel and the Miami Herald. Both have differing accounts. One says 5 day suspension - the other says 10 day. Both have different reasons - one says because he was tardy too many times, the other says he was in an unauthorized area.


How are we supposed to discuss this when we don't know the actual, TRUE facts?



JMHO

 

[Salem]

pic #1 is the original pic as ran by the Miami Herald

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html

pic #2 is the pic altered to change the public's perception

Clearly, it has been lightened, or softened, somehow. Along with other possible alterations, he looks far more, perhaps innocent is the right word, in the altered image. For the record, that has nothing to do with the guilt, or innocence, of anyone involved, but more to do with the reporting of the story.

Please link up picture #2. Where was it posted? Who softened it up?

Thanks,

Salem

 

[jjenny]

A perfect reason why he should not have been walking around with a gun.

But yet we legally allow people to carry concealed weapons and in fact want to expand where people can carry these weapons.

 

[ScubaTwinn]

The reason that TM was visiting with his father. Because he does live in MIAMI with his mother is
because he was dismissed from school.
Dismissed because he was in an area that was off limits.
I WONDER WHY THAT IS NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION...Seems to me this good boy was not always so good.

<modsnip> I READ THIS ON THE INTERNET last night.

Link please? I will try to find the one where he was suspended, not dismissed, because of tardiness.