Identified! FL - Big Cypress Natl Preserve, Male Hiker, Denim & “Mostly Harmless” July 2018 - Vance Rodriguez#4

[wardo27]

@gfinale have you listened to the CCSO podcasts? A lot of what you are bringing up is covered in them, I recommend you listen if you have not yet.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree - also: in the CCSO podcast, there is direct mention of the picnic table being there by the hikers who found him, FWIW.

 

[GatorFL]

So many times it has been mentioned that he said he visited his sister but what the hikers discussed him saying is that he stayed with his sister before he started the FT. Stayed, not visited. They didn't just have coffee.

Am I the only one who doesn't think he stayed with his sister before he started the FT?

His first encounter on the FT was with Kelly Fairbanks near Pensacola on 1/24/18. Pensacola is probably 500 miles from Sarasota.

He encountered hikers exactly a month later on 2/24/18 in Ebro (100 miles from Pensacola) and told them he stayed with the sister in Sarasota before starting.

I guess he had time to catch a lift both ways. But he didn't come off the trail for substantial periods of time anywhere else. It just doesn't seem plausible.

 

[wardo27]

@gfinale @GatorFL Yes, this is exactly the rub:
- If he was dehydrated to the point of dying, this would have been a much quicker death (10 days seems to be average). He probably would have weighed more, too. He had a water supply nearby, a rest stop 5 relatively easy miles away, and his bladder was full.
- If he had an auto-immune disease that killed him, it's seems certain that the adjunct affects of such a disease would have shown up in an autopsy in some form (whether it be rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's, etc).
- If he drank tainted water, he would not have been able to keep anything in his stomach. And his stomach revealed the opposite. (This also would have led to dehydration.)
- The plain fact is: he had money, he seemed to have food, he had water, he hung out his trash. Starvation takes time. Getting to 83 pounds when you are ostensibly a "normal" weight does not happen due to a sudden event. If there is no semblance of an obvious reason in his autopsy - which by all accounts should be there, if the result of a disease, poisoning, or autoimmune disorder - then, unless we are missing information or evidence (which we could be), there appears to be a psychological element at play. Since we can't re-do the autopsy, it's all we'll likely have.

 

[branmuffin]

Except you keep forgetting two key things. He was not dehydrated, just the opposite he had a full bladder. Dehydration would have been listed as a cause of death and it wasn't. And there is a freshwater pond at the camp, like it says in the link I posted. So not sure how it supports something completely the opposite?

I didn't 'forget' he wasn't dehydrated. I am aware he wasn't dehydrated. What I was suggesting was he would have been incapable of standing, walking or perhaps even crawling to get water. So the next best thing would have been rainwater. Not standing rainwater but fresh, falling rainwater. He was there for several months during the rainy season (I have a place on the bay so I know how much it rains) so he could have gotten rainwater in the manner I suggested.

We are all just theorizing, none of us are right, and none of us are wrong, because we don't know. I could apply your theory if he was mobile but I don't think he was. And that fresh water source you mention, if it's the one he WAS in, a remote site with one picnic bench (check) a fresh water source (check) had an alligator in the pond and was considered low and swampy, not high and dry with a gravel road. Perhaps you could provide the map of the site you're thinking of and we can see if it jibes with the once where Denim was found.

 

[branmuffin]

I don't understand why someone would volunarily camp there in the middle of the hot summer. Why wouldn't they camp where there's more shade? I keep thinking he was sick and weak for a month or more and never got better.

I agree with you he was sick and non-ambulatory and was unable to leave.

 

[branmuffin]

@gfinale @GatorFL Yes, this is exactly the rub:
- If he was dehydrated to the point of dying, this would have been a much quicker death (10 days seems to be average). He probably would have weighed more, too. He had a water supply nearby, a rest stop 5 relatively easy miles away, and his bladder was full.
- If he had an auto-immune disease that killed him, it's seems certain that the adjunct affects of such a disease would have shown up in an autopsy in some form (whether it be rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's, etc).
- If he drank tainted water, he would not have been able to keep anything in his stomach. And his stomach revealed the opposite. (This also would have led to dehydration.)
- The plain fact is: he had money, he seemed to have food, he had water, he hung out his trash. Starvation takes time. Getting to 83 pounds when you are ostensibly a "normal" weight does not happen due to a sudden event. If there is no semblance of an obvious reason in his autopsy - which by all accounts should be there, if the result of a disease, poisoning, or autoimmune disorder - then, unless we are missing information or evidence (which we could be), there appears to be a psychological element at play. Since we can't re-do the autopsy, it's all we'll likely have.

Five miles isn't easy when you have no muscles, not muscle tone, but NO muscles. You cannot walk, stand upright or crawl in the state he was in. For better or worse, our friend was staying put whether he wanted to or not. His survival at some point in time relied on random hikers finding him and summoning help. That happened but it was too late for him, unfortunately. How I wish those two men had been there maybe, ten days earlier. It's without a doubt the saddest case I follow on WS.

 

[GatorFL]

Five miles isn't easy when you have no muscles, not muscle tone, but NO muscles. You cannot walk, stand upright or crawl in the state he was in. For better or worse, our friend was staying put whether he wanted to or not. His survival at some point in time relied on random hikers finding him and summoning help. That happened but it was too late for him, unfortunately. How I wish those two men had been there maybe, ten days earlier. It's without a doubt the saddest case I follow on WS.

He was in good shape on April 15. He was at Nobles for 3 months and deteriorated over that period of time. He could have hiked out before he lost the ability and he chose not to.

The guy that took the video I posted was there 20 days earlier, on July 3. MH sought no help from them.

 

[wardo27]

Five miles isn't easy when you have no muscles, not muscle tone, but NO muscles. You cannot walk, stand upright or crawl in the state he was in. For better or worse, our friend was staying put whether he wanted to or not. His survival at some point in time relied on random hikers finding him and summoning help. That happened but it was too late for him, unfortunately. How I wish those two men had been there maybe, ten days earlier. It's without a doubt the saddest case I follow on WS.

All correct, of course I would think that too...But, again, I apologize for getting graphic - if he was non-ambulatory, unable to move for quite some time, yet eating and drinking, which we have evidence of, why weren't his clothes and tent not "soiled" with his own filth? Wouldn't there be physical evidence of immobility for a long time? (I have not looked at the post-death photos.)

 

[GatorFL]

I didn't 'forget' he wasn't dehydrated. I am aware he wasn't dehydrated. What I was suggesting was he would have been incapable of standing, walking or perhaps even crawling to get water. So the next best thing would have been rainwater. Not standing rainwater but fresh, falling rainwater. He was there for several months during the rainy season (I have a place on the bay so I know how much it rains) so he could have gotten rainwater in the manner I suggested.

We are all just theorizing, none of us are right, and none of us are wrong, because we don't know. I could apply your theory if he was mobile but I don't think he was. And that fresh water source you mention, if it's the one he WAS in, a remote site with one picnic bench (check) a fresh water source (check) had an alligator in the pond and was considered low and swampy, not high and dry with a gravel road. Perhaps you could provide the map of the site you're thinking of and we can see if it jibes with the once where Denim was found.

Well, none of us will know for sure. But I can tell you that nobody is surviving on rainwater collected via a collapsable bowl. Hiking bowls are much smaller than what you have in your kitchen. They're tiny.

I've watched a couple of videos of Auschwitz. People his size are capable of moving. Just not very quickly.

We know where he was found and we know there is a freshwater pond there. I can look on the FT site and see that it is elevated. They're always explicitly clear on whether a trail or a camp ground is elevated so a hiker can make the proper preparations. If memory serves me, Mike Gormley told MH to camp there because it was a good place to stay. As I said I'll make my way out there and take some pictures to place where MH was vs the two guy that camped out on July 3.

 

[GatorFL]

All correct, of course I would think that too...But, again, I apologize for getting graphic - if he was non-ambulatory, unable to move for quite some time, yet eating and drinking, which we have evidence of, why weren't his clothes and tent not "soiled" with his own filth? Wouldn't there be physical evidence of immobility for a long time? (I have not looked at the post-death photos.)

Agreed. I did not notice any human waste in the post mortem photos, either in his tent or in his pants. He was obviously not defecating regularly to get to 83 lbs. But had be been urinating in the tent, it would be unmistakable.

 

[lonewanderer]

You sound very wise! Unless you are looking for a person, you can easily miss a flyer/website looking for them even when you run into it. You just go by and continue your day. Almost nobody goes to these missing people sites unless they have someone missing as well. His sister may not have internet or do much on it either. I'm a computer guy too which maybe helps us understand this guy and, having looked over his notebook, I believe he is who he says and has a sister but haas nothing to do with his parents.

Thank you, though I have been incredibly foolish many more times in my life than I have been wise. MH reminds me of myself in SO many different ways. I could make a laundry list of similarities between myself and MH that I did not realize until I started looking more into the case. I have some speculations and theories that I will keep to myself, but they are also tied into my life experiences and why I would do specific things similarly the way that he did them.

To add to your comments about not being noticed, MH has an insane amount of shares on FB and other places (millions if I remember correctly) yet his case if relatively unknown to many people. Any acquaintances, friends, etc that I speak to have never seen or heard of the case (although it is not something I forcefully mention to every single person I know).

 

[gfinale]

Someone said Obsidian swore she noticed MH using a wallet with credit/debit cards. How can this be verified? Can anyone post a link or something that is allowed here?

 

[branmuffin]

Thanks for posting the video. How far is this from where he was found? It looks a lot different than I imagined. A lot less trees and shade than I pictured. IMO

It doesn't look anything like the camp MH was in, IMO.

 

[papillon2126]

Thank you, though I have been incredibly foolish many more times in my life than I have been wise. MH reminds me of myself in SO many different ways. I could make a laundry list of similarities between myself and MH that I did not realize until I started looking more into the case. I have some speculations and theories that I will keep to myself, but they are also tied into my life experiences and why I would do specific things similarly the way that he did them.

To add to your comments about not being noticed, MH has an insane amount of shares on FB and other places (millions if I remember correctly) yet his case if relatively unknown to many people. Any acquaintances, friends, etc that I speak to have never seen or heard of the case (although it is not something I forcefully mention to every single person I know).

I am very much interested in your speculations and theories. Will you please share with us? We don't need to know if they are similar to you in any way but it would be great to learn other ideas. Sometimes it seems like we are just going around the same circle. Thanks.

 

[gfinale]

I said MH was in a pic holding up a Pinhoti Trail map. Someone disagreed. That pic is a popular one found lots of places and I won't provide a link because I may be breaking a rule and need to still read the link rules. He is holding up a Pinhoti Trail Guide in his left hand and a map for Springer and Cohutta Mountains in his right which I am thinking is probably from the Pinhoti guide package. This pic would seem to have been taken by a hiker he hung out with and bought on his travels. If so, where did he get his Appalachian and Florida Trail Guides? Did he order either of them online with a card delivered to his door or at a local hiking store in the places he likely lived? Especially the Appalachian one because he knew he was going on that trail while he was still at "home". Did he access lots of Appalachian Trail places online from home?

 

[gfinale]

Giardiasis is not a reasonable theory. We know he did not die from that because as I said, he would not have solid feces in his colon and he would not have had urine in his bladder. He died from starvation. Maybe he died from refeeding disease, which is a result of starvation.

Giardia was just an example. What I was getting at is he could have got sick and that caused a big part of the starvation. When you're sick, you don't eat much. He could have been incapacitated and rationing. I highly doubt he starved himself on purpose to die. He was hiking for over a year, running into many people and spending lots of time with some. He was consistent, clear thinking, intelligent, his notes are good, he kept his gear good and showed no signs of any disorders or mental health issues.

 

[gfinale]

@gfinale have you listened to the CCSO podcasts? A lot of what you are bringing up is covered in them, I recommend you listen if you have not yet.

Yes, I agree - also: in the CCSO podcast, there is direct mention of the picnic table being there by the hikers who found him, FWIW.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, most of what I'm mentioning is in response to correcting what others have said so they must have not listened to it However, I do intend to listen to then as I have time over the next few days.

 

[gfinale]

Am I the only one who doesn't think he stayed with his sister before he started the FT?

His first encounter on the FT was with Kelly Fairbanks near Pensacola on 1/24/18. Pensacola is probably 500 miles from Sarasota.

He encountered hikers exactly a month later on 2/24/18 in Ebro (100 miles from Pensacola) and told them he stayed with the sister in Sarasota before starting.

I guess he had time to catch a lift both ways. But he didn't come off the trail for substantial periods of time anywhere else. It just doesn't seem plausible.

Possibly I'm confused but how is he coming off the trail? He started in Pensacola 1/24/18, told hikers at Ebro on 2/24/18 that he stayed with his sister before starting (in Pensacola).

 

[gfinale]

I agree with you he was sick and non-ambulatory and was unable to leave.

He was in good shape on April 15. He was at Nobles for 3 months and deteriorated over that period of time. He could have hiked out before he lost the ability and he chose not to.

The guy that took the video I posted was there 20 days earlier, on July 3. MH sought no help from them.

He could have realized he couldn't hike out when it was too late. He could have hoped he was mending while he was actually getting worse. It isn't necessarily the case that he had the choice by the time he realized he needed to do so.

 

[Armalita]

Re: the foster system speculation- if he was a child in the system, I believe this places even MORE eyes on him. Foster families genuinely care about their foster children’s future and their overall well being. Wouldn’t this theory have brought someone to light?

Even if he had been in foster care that doesn't answer the question of nobody knowing who he is. Mailman, employees, employer, convenient store clerks, library clerk, garbage man, doctors, nurses, etc. Someone would have known him unless his appearance had changed so much he wasn't recognized. Until someone answers that question it will remain a mystery.