GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #1

[OrdinaryLife]

Well, I seems as if they were spending beyond there means if she needs a public defender. That is her reality, IMO.

I agree with the children's innocence and her apparent problems, be it drugs, alcohol or mental illness. IMVHO

Not necessarily so. If she is not functioning within normal comprehending reason to makes decisions, the Court will decide for her for her legal protection. It has nothing to do with money. FWIW, it isn't always about spending beyond ones means. That is a fact for many. <modsnip>.

imvho

 

[BrownRice]

From 1st article in post 89 above...

She was driving her 2010 Mercedes when she had the accident in November, but is now being represented by the public defenders office.

I know earlier there was an article that said they bought their home in 2008 for $448,000 and now it is worth $261,000.

Why do people have expensive cars when their mortgage is probably under water? I just don't get it.

As a taxpayer, I really I get really annoyed!

I think there is confusion here. Just because your house is worth considerably less now than when you paid for it, doesn't mean you are in financial straits or anything. If they are current on the mortgage, what's the deal? It only means something if you want to sell it. The perceived loss is on paper only. Regarding the public defender, it could just be a decision made on the spot. The suspect in the Rusty Sneiderman case also chose a public defender at first, then hired a top defense attorney.

 

[DesertCookie]

She wrote a suicide note... when do you think it will be released to the public?

 

[Melanie]

I haven't read the entire thread - so I apologize. When my son gets snarky, out goes the X-box, or sleepovers. Who on God's great earth would kill their child for being mouthy? I think it goes so much deeper than that!

Bless those children, and for the mother to suffer for the rest of her foresaken life.

Mel

 

[SarahW]

I haven't read the entire thread - so I apologize. When my son gets snarky, out goes the X-box, or sleepovers. Who on God's great earth would kill their child for being mouthy? I think it goes so much deeper than that!

Bless those children, and for the mother to suffer for the rest of her foresaken life.

Mel

Something seriously is wrong with Schenecker. I will be interested to find out what.

FWIW, I made a post that seems not to have landed properly on the board related to neurodegenerative disease which could account for her involuntary movements, shakiness, and slow gait... and moreover the dilated eyes and "mush mouth" noted by officers after her car crash.

Here is a "layperson"-oriented link about psychiatric manifestations of Parkinson's disease.
http://parkinsons.about.com/b/2009/04/28/psychiatric-issues-in-parkinsons-disease.htm

One of those diseases is Parkinson's, which is though to also have a range of psychiatric/emotional manifestations, and cognitive effects, including the "forgetfulness" a person who met her through the kids sports activities remarked on.

 

[White Rain]

Ok this is a continuance of the thread mom killed kids for being mouthy....I was afraid ppl would quit reading that thread and not read/respond to what I have to say...I am sure the threads will be combined which is great but hopefully a few eyes will see this first...
Let me say first and foremost NO child should be killed for ANY reason....but next let me tell you something from the otherside, and how laws (at least in my part of GA) are enabling teens to get away with EVERYTHING BUT A FELONY...and how parents get pushed to the breaking point (not the killer point though!)
My-then-14-yr old step-daughter came to live with us full time about 3 yrs ago...she had been raised by her grandma since she was 2. Hubby had her EVERY weekend, her mom had no custody whatsoever.
She was a great girl, did great in school, etc...but then started running away, doing drugs, suddenly grandma doesn't want her anymore....
So we take her in...does great for awhile, then the crap starts in...skipping school, smoking pot and cigs, sneaking out at night, getting "home-made" tattoos behind our backs from teenage boys, piercing her own lip, sex with multiple, and I do mean multiple boys...she would look us dead in our face and say "F*ck you" things of that nature...found a note she had wrote in her room about torturing ppl and getting turned on by it...was even doing more scary things esp. since we had a newborn in the house...
We BEGGED for help everywhere we could turn...school, cops, courts, etc...when the cops came for more things than I even wrote about she would instantly scream she felt suicidal...she knew that meant an automatic trip to the ER suicide watch and her dad would have to be there...sometimes more than 24 hrs which meant he had to stay up all night THEN go to work...she would even admit she would lie about the suicide just to stay out of trouble...even admitted it to cops in my own prescense, but once she said those words, it was over....she would then be sent to a mental health place that would NEVER, and I mean NOT once keep her over 7 days because of "insurance."
Then the story would start all over again.
Sometimes when we would call the cops they would "lock her up for 4 hrs" which was the max they could...which always made my hubby get up in the middle of the night (it was always nighttime) to go get her a$$...
at one point for all her crap she was put on "probation" for which my hubby had to pay the monthly fine and she was ordered a "tour of the jail" which cost another $25...something else for my hubby to pay.
I could go on and on and on....the point I want to make is that sometimes parents DO ask for help, and theis is the kinda crap we get...I have no idea what this woman did or did not do or if she asked for help or not...
Just thought I would give a view from the otherside who begged for help and never got it.
Time and time again my step-d committed "mis-demeanors" which would have an ordinary adult under arrest for....As a teen thanks to new laws in GA she can do anything and go free as long as its not a felony.

 

[Vresia]

Brown Rice said: "Regarding the public defender, it could just be a decision made on the spot. The suspect in the Rusty Sneiderman case also chose a public defender at first, then hired a top defense attorney."

I agree with you & the other poster that mentioned this in an earlier post. I believe that she was given a public defender for the purposes of the arraignment. There will be plenty of time to make arraignments for a private defense attorney in the future. They just needed someone to be there for her today to get through the arraignment.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Another thought... Perhaps she has a public defender because she is incapable of making any "of sound mind" choices at this moment and her husband is/was overseas. It's extremely obvious legal counsel is needed.

imvho

ITA. If she was unable to tell the judge who her attorney was at her first appearance, a public defender would be appointed immediately.

Has the husband made it back from the Middle East?

 

[Vresia]

SarahW-

Thank you for your posts & links. I have a question about the possibility of her having Parkinson's.

In the police report concerning the car accident (http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtsp/pdfs/2011/julie_schenecker_crash_report.pdf page 3), the officer stated:
The driver of vehicle 1 showed signs of drug impairment including dilated pupils with no reaction to light, mush-mouthed speech and she displayed all 6 clues in her eyes for HGN . (horizontal gaze nystagmus)

Do you see changes in eye tracking movements in people with Parkinson's (or on drugs for Parkinson's) similar to those seen in people that have been drinking or taking other drugs ?

NEVERMIND MY QUESTION- I found a number of comments online that say you do observe similar abnormal eye movements in certain neurological conditions such as multiple sclerosis & Parkinson's Disease. If I find a decent link I will add it; everything that I found initially was on websites promoting lawyers to help for fight a DUI charge.

Looks like JPS' symptoms are also symptoms of methamphetamine use. http://www.nhtsa.gov/People/injury/research/job185drugs/methamphetamine.htm

 

[Vresia]

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/local/hillsborough/father-of-teens-returns-home-01312011
The husband of a woman accused of shooting and killing their two children is back in the United States.

Colonel Parker Schenecker is back home from is deployment, and is with family and friends...

"Colonel Parker Schenecker has returned from his deployment and is grieving with family and friends. He is devoted first and foremost to honoring the lives and memory of his beautiful children, Calyx and Beau. Parker and his family have been touched by the overwhelming support from the community both near and abroad. Arrangements and details are still being finalized with regard to the services to be held for Calyx and Beau."...

 

[Vresia]

In reporting today, there was a quote from Calyx stating that she was in therapy for her behavior towards her mother. I can't remember the wording.

It looks like Calyx was the "identified patient" in this family; her behavior was a reaction to her mother's decompensation and she was labeled the problem instead of JPS. JMO

http://www.tampabay.com/news/health...ld-be-key-to-motive-8212-and-her-fate/1148808
Mother's mental health could be key to motive-and her fate

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20462514,00.html
...According to the reports of last year, Schenecker was in individual and family counseling and had the full support of her husband, U.S. Army Col. Parker Schenecker, 48, as well as friends and family.

The family's therapist had reported to authorities that counseling was going well. Says the report: "She has no safety concerns for the family."

 

[cluciano63]

I think this mother must be mentally ill; I don't see how she couldn't be. I am not advocating for her in any way, but I am not sure I agree with Marc Klaas, that she is a vicious, horrible woman. She did a horrible thing...we don't yet know what caused her to do it, but I think her saying it was because they were "mouthy" is being used more as a soundbite than anything else. Clearly, that is not a sane reason.

 

[not_my_kids]

Nancy Grace is really p1ss1ng me off. She's covering the story tonight, and cutting the mother no mercy (acceptable), but refusing to listen to the ENTIRE panel, most of whom are telling her that this woman has to be mentally ill (not acceptable, IMO). She has the before and after pictures of Julie running across the screen, and yet she insists that she is perfectly sane and just evil. NG scares the heck out of me sometimes. This is one of them.

 

[Charlie09]

I think this mother must be mentally ill; I don't see how she couldn't be. I am not advocating for her in any way, but I am not sure I agree with Marc Klaas, that she is a vicious, horrible woman. She did a horrible thing...we don't yet know what caused her to do it, but I think her saying it was because they were "mouthy" is being used more as a soundbite than anything else. Clearly, that is not a sane reason.

not_my_kids Nancy Grace is really p1ss1ng me off. She's covering the story tonight, and cutting the mother no mercy (acceptable), but refusing to listen to the ENTIRE panel, most of whom are telling her that this woman has to be mentally ill (not acceptable, IMO). She has the before and after pictures of Julie running across the screen, and yet she insists that she is perfectly sane and just evil. NG scares the heck out of me sometimes. This is one of them.

I'm leaning away from mentally ill, and towards straight out evil myself.

 

[Vresia]

http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtsp/pdfs/2011/schenecker-investigative-summary.pdf
19 page pdf- includes updated assessment from 12/23/10

The family is attending group therapy and the mother is attending individual counselling...

Maybe Calyx wasn't the identified patient. JPS was the one in individual counselling.

I may not be reading the report right but, it looks like CPIT (Child Protective Investigative Team) got an update from the family therapist on 1/18/11 that said:
CPIT received phone call from the family's therapist, XXXXXX. She stated that the family is attending group therapy and the mother is attending individual counseling sessions. She has no safety concerns.

This update was 4 days before JPS got the gun.

I believe this update is from 1/6/11:
CPIT spoke with the father, Parker Schenecker. He stated that he was aware of the situation that took place between his wife and daughter. He said that this was the first time the mother has ever put her hands on the child. He stated that he feels his daughter is very angry and at times can be very disrespectful. He stated that he works for the advocacy program for the military, so he is able to recognize when there is a problem. He said that the family is attending therapy sessions and the mother is going to individual therapy. He said that he feels it is helping out quite a bit. He stated that he has no safety concerns for the children...He denied any issues with domestic violence, mental health, substance misuse, and animal cruelty.

 

[Pensfan]

The JVM show had a video of this mom being taken out of her home in a straight jacket. It is now on youtube. She was having extrapyramidal symptoms, not withdrawal tremors. This mom had likely just been administered an extremely large dose of an antipsychotic medication, probably Thorazine. A paramedic or EMT very likely gave her a very large dose of Thorazine because of some behavior she was exhibiting that would impair the LE officers' ability to transport her in their patrol car.

There is a sad woman experiencing milder extrpyramidal symptoms on youtube. Look up Tardive Dyskenysis if you can want to see the same type of uncontrollable facial grimacing. This is usually a potential side effect from long-term use of antipsychotic medications, but it is also a side effect of a very large, one-time dose of an antipsychotic medication. This is used by EMTs/paramedics to transport individuals that could not be transported safely without immediate sedation.

 

[Vresia]

"This mom had likely just been administered an extremely large dose of an antipsychotic medication, probably Thorazine. A paramedic or EMT very likely gave her a very large dose of Thorazine because of some behavior she was exhibiting that would impair the LE officers' ability to transport her in their patrol car.

...but it is also a side effect of a very large, one-time dose of an antipsychotic medication. This is used by EMTs/paramedics to transport individuals that could not be transported safely without immediate sedation."

This is very interesting info. I had no idea a single, large dose of Thorazine could do that.

 

[nervous_nellie]

Nancy Grace is really p1ss1ng me off. She's covering the story tonight, and cutting the mother no mercy (acceptable), but refusing to listen to the ENTIRE panel, most of whom are telling her that this woman has to be mentally ill (not acceptable, IMO). She has the before and after pictures of Julie running across the screen, and yet she insists that she is perfectly sane and just evil. NG scares the heck out of me sometimes. This is one of them.

i agree! ng is just dead wrong on this one - moo... after she handled billie dunn with kid gloves and then turns around and just rips this mother to shreads... shameful...

 

[Vresia]

http://www.newser.com/story/110948/mouthy-kids-mom-spiraled-downward-before-killings.html

An anonymous source tells ABC that Calyx and Beau Schenecker attended an Al-Anon meeting just three weeks ago with father Parker Schenecker in which Calyx broke down, crying, "My mom, my mom." "It was mentioned by the dad that they were there for the mother [Schenecker]...he said that she did have a drug and alcohol problem and they were here to cope with it," the source says. Parker Schenecker has returned from his post in Qatar; police sources say he won't be supporting his wife through her trial.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/julie-schenecker-released-hospital-charged-killing-kids/story?id=12801885

Schenecker wrote a detailed notes planning the murder and after the murders occurred, she wrote detailed notes describing the crimes, McElroy said...

"It's hard to believe that a mother authored the notes because it's very methodical, non-emotional description of the murder of two innocent children, of her own children. Whe she's describing it, it's just a very matter of fact, devoid of emotion, matter," McElroy said.

A woman who asked to remain anonymous told ABC News that the family of Schenecker attended an Al-Anon meeting three weeks ago. Al-Anon is a support group for those whose family members abuse drugs or alcohol.

Colonel Schenecker accompanied Beau and Calyx to the meeting of about 20 people, the woman said..

"He was just like any normal dad. He was there to help his kids," the woman said. "It was mentioned by the dad that they were there for the mother [Schenecker]... he said that she did have a drug and alcohol problem and they were here to cope with it."

Beau, 13, didn't speak at the meeting but 16-year-old Calyx did.

"Calyx started to speak and she started to say, 'my mom.' She said, 'my mom' maybe about twice. She couldn't say any more, she started bawling," the woman said.

The woman said she didn't see the family at another Al-Anon meeting.

"It seemed like they were dealing with a lot. I dont' think anyone knew exactly what they were dealing with. I think it was kind of hidden," she said.

Reportedly, Schenecker's mother had grown increasingly concerned about what she said was her daughter's depression.

She'd received a disturbing e-mail from her daughter the day the murders occurred complaining that the kids were talking back and the note ended with Schenecker writing, it "would all be over soon," police said.

When a call to her daughter wasn't answered Friday morning, she called police.

"She felt the note was ominous and so she contacted the Tampa Police Department," Police Spokewswoman Laura McElroy said.

 

[Pensfan]

"This mom had likely just been administered an extremely large dose of an antipsychotic medication, probably Thorazine. A paramedic or EMT very likely gave her a very large dose of Thorazine because of some behavior she was exhibiting that would impair the LE officers' ability to transport her in their patrol car.

...but it is also a side effect of a very large, one-time dose of an antipsychotic medication. This is used by EMTs/paramedics to transport individuals that could not be transported safely without immediate sedation."

This is very interesting info. I had no idea a single, large dose of Thorazine could do that.

Yes, it can. Years ago, I worked in a psych hospital ER and we were getting a large number of people being referred or coming in because they were having these odd symptoms. They were experiencing extrapyramidal symptom but they weren't prescribed antipsychotic meds. We discovered that some local drug dealer was selling 5mg and 10 mg Haldol tablets as Valium.
I have also seen this happen with violent patients that had to be chemically restrained in psych hospitals.