GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #3

[ToodieWorm]

My point was that as an adult, you are responsible for yourself. You can choose to react to setbacks, mental illness, bad childhoods, etc., by blaming everyone but yourself.

Getting drunk and taking pain pills, chain smoking and laying in bed for 7 weeks is not a great way to choose to live. Julie was an affluent woman--she had so very many other options than destroying her children.

And mental illness, even schizophrenia, is not an excuse for murder. She was more than able to hold it together to buy the weapons. Mental illness doesn't come and go. Was she shaking and suffering Tardive dyskinesia at Lock & Load? When she was writing her "journals?" Nope.

She bought hollow points. And we only have Julie's version of what her kids were like. She may have been horribly abusive to them, refusing to parent, being verbally abusive & ranting about their father for all we know.

Teens talking back to their parents is hardly a crime punishable by a point blank gunshot to the face and head. With bullets designed to blow your face off. Are you kidding me?!

Bottom line: Julie decided not to avail herself of the many, many, many other choices she had as a woman with money. She chose to shoot her children in the face and head and rub it in her husband's face.

JMO

With all due respect, I think you are saying this from the viewpoint of a rationally thinking person. Please don't mistake, I am not sticking up for her. I just think that it is hard to say She should have recognized her faults when many mentally ill don't see them themselves. The alcohol might have made her feel "normal" as normal could be when the medicine made her foggy.
Just thoughts

 

[Liebchenmutti]

Exactly!!!!! And where was her "support"? Weeks on end in bed? Come on! MI or not, that is a MAJOR red flag.

Many patients don't like the "fuzziness", sleepiness, weight gain,motivation, slowed reaction and thinking processes Lithium causes. Some feel great after getting on Lithium and think they don't need it anymore <---major reason why many stop. They don't connect the "feeling great" with "taking the Lithium".

Alcohol and methamphetamines/speed/coke are common self medicators, "self added" to the mix, because it makes them feel "sharp" or more "aware". Those also contribute to a more present state of psychosis and schizoaffective disorder.

I have yet to personally know anyone who has bipolar with added disorders, feel "normal" on whatever cocktail they've been prescribed.

Just wanted to add that I am someone who functions extremely well with my "cocktail" of drugs--I get up early each morning & care for 3 young children, get things done & think clearly. I feel pretty "normal!"

Yes, Lithium makes it hard for me to lose my baby weight, Seroquel also doesn't help you lose weight, I have to buy my Cymbalta in Canada b/c it is so expensive in the US, even with the generic & my insurance co. won't pay for it...I suffered from Tardive dyskinesia, so severe that I looked like I was having seizures from selegeline, had to go to the hospital in an ambulance because my husband and I had no idea what was happening, etc, etc, etc., I've been on and off so many different combinations of meds, I can't even count them. Chronic illness isn't fun or easy for anyone.

Even when I had NO support system whatsoever, when I was a single girl in my 20's in Dallas and I was so depressed that I couldn't even get out of bed to pee, I went to Parkland Hospital and admitted myself to the ER Psych ward there because I was suicidal. We must do what we must do. I waited in line for 20 hours at Parkland (it's the county hospital) to get admitted. (I don't want to put my whole life out there, but I also live with Panic Disorder, Social Anxiety and OCD as well as Bipolar I). It's extremely challenging, especially when you are alone.

Julie could have picked a posh treatment center in any state to go and get help. Not a hospital, but a rehab/treatment center like The Meadows in AZ. They treat mental illness as well as addiction issues. No--she chose evil, and there's just no excuse for that. MOO

 

[Jewels53]

I don't think any of know what it was like in the household of the Schenecker's and for sure none of us know what it was like to live with Julie.

We can't judge her just by her diagnosis, their are many levels that could be more severe or less severe.

I think it could be the same for many who suffer with mental illness that some are worse off than others ever though they have the same diagnosis. Just the same as the medicine's I take may not work for another person.

JMO

 

[Abigail]

Was she shaking and suffering Tardive dyskinesia at Lock & Load? When she was writing her "journals?" Nope.

She bought hollow points. And we only have Julie's version of what her kids were like. She may have been horribly abusive to them, refusing to parent, being verb

JMO

1) In yesterday's testimony, the gun shop guy said she was shaking a little bit when she bought the gun

2) Also, the gun shop guy said he most likely recommended the hollow point bullets.

3) We also have Parker's version of what her kids were like. He reported that his daughter was verbally abusive to her mother -- taunting her because of her mental illness and preying on her insecurities.

 

[Jewels53]

Just wanted to add that I am someone who functions extremely well with my "cocktail" of drugs--I get up early each morning & care for 3 young children, get things done & think clearly. I feel pretty "normal!"

Yes, Lithium makes it hard for me to lose my baby weight, Seroquel also doesn't help you lose weight, I have to buy my Cymbalta in Canada b/c it is so expensive in the US, even with the generic & my insurance co. won't pay for it...I suffered from Tardive dyskinesia, so severe that I looked like I was having seizures from selegeline, had to go to the hospital in an ambulance because my husband and I had no idea what was happening, etc, etc, etc., I've been on and off so many different combinations of meds, I can't even count them. Chronic illness isn't fun or easy for anyone.

Even when I had NO support system whatsoever, when I was a single girl in my 20's in Dallas and I was so depressed that I couldn't even get out of bed to pee, I went to Parkland Hospital and admitted myself to the ER Psych ward there because I was suicidal. We must do what we must do. I waited in line for 20 hours at Parkland (it's the county hospital) to get admitted. (I don't want to put my whole life out there, but I also live with Panic Disorder, Social Anxiety and OCD as well as Bipolar I). It's extremely challenging, especially when you are alone.

Julie could have picked a posh treatment center in any state to go and get help. Not a hospital, but a rehab/treatment center like The Meadows in AZ. They treat mental illness as well as addiction issues. No--she chose evil, and there's just no excuse for that. MOO

Thanks so much for sharing. It is hard putting your life out there trying to help people to understand Mental Health Issues.

I just wanted to say after my post below is that you mentioned Cymbalta, is what put me in the hospital the last time. I had very bad suicidal thoughts with that after being on it for a period of time. Not every drug is for everyone.

 

[Bernina]

My point was that as an adult, you are responsible for yourself. You can choose to react to setbacks, mental illness, bad childhoods, etc., by blaming everyone but yourself.She took responsibility for killing her children.

Getting drunk and taking pain pills, chain smoking and laying in bed for 7 weeks is not a great way to choose to live.Please link your source for this information Julie was an affluent woman--she had so very many other options than destroying her children.

And mental illness, even schizophrenia, is not an excuse for murder. It's not an "excuse", it's a mitigating factor when one does not have a "normal" view on realityShe was more than able to hold it together to buy the weapons. Mental illness doesn't come and go. Was she shaking and suffering Tardive dyskinesia at Lock & Load? When she was writing her "journals?" Nope.MI patients are capable of making a plan, or "mission". She was also taking meds to manage TD.

She bought hollow points.Why wouldn't she? She was planning on killing her kids and herself. And we only have Julie's version of what her kids were like. She may have been horribly abusive to them, refusing to parent, being verbally abusive & ranting about their father for all we know.And you think that if that was the case, both children and PS would have said absolutely nothing when Calyx reported JS for child abuse?

Teens talking back to their parents is hardly a crime punishable by a point blank gunshot to the face and head. With bullets designed to blow your face off. Are you kidding me?!Do you think this was really all about the kids talking back?http://tbprojects.s3.amazonaws.com/dcloud/dcloud-template.html?doc=1156249-schenecker-interview Line 8, page 58: JS; ".......but I didn't want them to be embarrassed that their mom was bipolar and can't help herself..." Line 18, page 58: JS: "Yeah. That's why I had to shoot them."

Bottom line: Julie decided not to avail herself of the many, many, many other choices she had as a woman with money. She chose to shoot her children in the face and head and rub it in her husband's face.I would suggest you go back to the various posts and links that show her then current medications and the amounts missing for the then most recently prescribed meds, the notations of inpatient hospital stays, and her being under the care of a psychiatrist, counseling and therapy when this happened.

JMO

Response by me
My ex husband has the EXACT same diagnosis. When he was living in the same household, I and my children were fortunate he only became suicidal, and not homicidal, regardless if he was sticking to his medication or not.

 

[Bernina]

Thanks so much for sharing. It is hard putting your life out there trying to help people to understand Mental Health Issues.

I just wanted to say after my post below is that you mentioned Cymbalta, is what put me in the hospital the last time. I had very bad suicidal thoughts with that after being on it for a period of time. Not every drug is for everyone.

I was on Cymbalta for a year at 80 mgs/day. For me, it was rat poison, I have never felt so terrible in the 24+ years of my chronic depression, PTSD, and Panic Disorder. Not only was I over medicated, the Dr. was fired after trying to alter my prescription history to cover her butt.

 

[Whiteorchids]

My point was that as an adult, you are responsible for yourself. You can choose to react to setbacks, mental illness, bad childhoods, etc., by blaming everyone but yourself.

Getting drunk and taking pain pills, chain smoking and laying in bed for 7 weeks is not a great way to choose to live. Julie was an affluent woman--she had so very many other options than destroying her children.

And mental illness, even schizophrenia, is not an excuse for murder. She was more than able to hold it together to buy the weapons. Mental illness doesn't come and go. Was she shaking and suffering Tardive dyskinesia at Lock & Load? When she was writing her "journals?" Nope.

She bought hollow points. And we only have Julie's version of what her kids were like. She may have been horribly abusive to them, refusing to parent, being verbally abusive & ranting about their father for all we know.

Teens talking back to their parents is hardly a crime punishable by a point blank gunshot to the face and head. With bullets designed to blow your face off. Are you kidding me?!

Bottom line: Julie decided not to avail herself of the many, many, many other choices she had as a woman with money. She chose to shoot her children in the face and head and rub it in her husband's face.

JMO

Sorry but you are not completely correct. Schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, and some cases of Bi-polar is a brain disease almost like have a brain tumor. It gets worse over time. (Degenerative) Most people who suffer with Shizophrenia and Schizoaffective disorder, hear voices that tell them what to do. With some people my son included hears lots of voices, he covers his ears with pillows, his hands and listens to loud music with headphones to stop hearing them even taking the medication they are not completely gone. It's breaks my heart because I have tried everything under the Son to help him. It seems he's tried every med made. The invega antipsychotic injection worked for a few years and then stopped working. He did hate it because he has always been athletic and excelled in so many sports. The injection made him sleep 24/7. That's not really living. He is 31 now this disease surfaced after he started college. Common age for this disease to show up is 18-21 in men. Never had any signs when young. He was a straight A student.

Im sorry what you went through. It seems your med cocktail is working well for you. That's good news!!

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[Zuri]

Here's a link to the transcript of the police interview. It's quite valuable reading it (and hearing it) in its entirety - putting comments into context and also a glimpse into her state of mind
http://archive.wtsp.com/assetpool/documents/140507092613_Schenecker police transcript.pdf

Thank you for posting the transcript. I did not get to see Court yesterday when this was played. So, JS was planning this before PS even went to Qatar, from what I am gleaning. Carbon monoxide poisoning was her first thought for taking their lives. But I guess that would leave too much to chance wouldn't it have. She said CS what been mouthy for 1-2 years prior, but Beau only for the last 2 weeks prior to his death. This is just so tragic on so many levels. JMV

 

[Jewels53]

It is a sad day when people with Mental Health Issue's have to argue about it.

We are not all the same!

 

[Whiteorchids]

I am curious what PS and JS everyday living together was like when he was at home. He was usually only gone on only 2 week assignments or less. What did they do while he was at home with the family? Was there lots of communication? arguing or laughter? Did he go out with friends or together with the family? Stay at home and watch TV? Did PS do any of the cooking? Did they eat at the dinner table together? Did she sleep all day while he was with the kids? Not much on the web on their most recent times together before the tragedy.


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[sloane7777]

It is a sad day when people with Mental Health Issue's have to argue about it.

We are not all the same!

I suffer so I have been really avoiding this thread, but on that note I have not killed anyone (dont bash me for this but ) I have not had help other than my husband for 20 years the meds are impossible and hard to stay on steadly and do horrific things to my body , now I have a heart issue and cant , and I have had very dark thoughts and sometimes still do, I am lucky though I always snap back , but honestly I can see how it happens , I was constantly screaming begging for help and it does not come easily, someone should have taken her seriously ....my husband has taken me away from the kids and taken the kids away from me when he knows Im going dark, Ive been much better in the last 10 years but who knows when it can manifest I feel bad for all involved. period

 

[shiloh42]

PS has filed or will file a wrongful death civil suit I believe. What will that do for him? She has no assets but I would think there must be a reason? Proceeds from the house which I believe has not been sold yet? Just wondering as I would assume he would/should get away from this legal stuff and start healing. And I know he does some things towards that but I mean just get away for awhile.

She has 1/2 of the marital assets and possibly 1/2 of his pension from the military, so he is protecting himself.

 

[Zuri]

It is a sad day when people with Mental Health Issue's have to argue about it.

We are not all the same!

ITA. A diagnosis is just that, a diagnosis and it serves as a starting point for treatment. All treatments are not the same as they are individualized for each patient. Every single person on the planet has life experiences, genetics, hormones, internal and external factors that make us who we are.

At times, the tenor on here gets a little bit over the top. I think we all need to recognize this and stop with the pointed posts. We are all here on WS for a reason, whatever that may be. It is also a victim friendly site. Some posters have left this thread all together because of said tenor as it made them afraid of being attacked, argued with, or made to feel badly after what they shared that was personal to them was pounced on. I hope we can go forward with civility.

I really appreciate and value everyone's POV as psych has never been my strong suit in my career. I defer to those that know more always. I can see the struggles many of you have faced from your posts and I truly appreciate the sharing that has occurred.

If we could possibly remain respectful, that would be awesome. I would like to see this thread kept open and would invite others to share their thoughts without fear of being blasted for their opinions or experiences. TIA and sorry for the rant.

 

[Zuri]

I suffer so I have been really avoiding this thread, but on that note I have not killed anyone (dont bash me for this but ) I have not had help other than my husband for 20 years the meds are impossible and hard to stay on steadly and do horrific things to my body , now I have a heart issue and cant , and I have had very dark thoughts and sometimes still do, I am lucky though I always snap back , but honestly I can see how it happens , I was constantly screaming begging for help and it does not come easily, someone should have taken her seriously ....my husband has taken me away from the kids and taken the kids away from me when he knows Im going dark, Ive been much better in the last 10 years but who knows when it can manifest I feel bad for all involved. period

Thank you for posting this. I hope you continue in feeling better. I too feel badly for everyone who suffers or knows someone who does. My son has had mental health issues for the last 6 years and it has been heartbreaking to say the least. My heart goes out to you and yours. ((( sloane))))

 

[Jewels53]

ITA. A diagnosis is just that, a diagnosis and it serves as a starting point for treatment. All treatments are not the same as they are individualized for each patient. Every single person on the planet has life experiences, genetics, hormones, internal and external factors that make us who we are.

At times, the tenor on here gets a little bit over the top. I think we all need to recognize this and stop with the pointed posts. We are all here on WS for a reason, whatever that may be. It is also a victim friendly site. Some posters have left this thread all together because of said tenor as it made them afraid of being attacked, argued with, or made to feel badly after what they shared that was personal to them was pounced on. I hope we can go forward with civility.

I really appreciate and value everyone's POV as psych has never been my strong suit in my career. I defer to those that know more always. I can see the struggles many of you have faced from your posts and I truly appreciate the sharing that has occurred.

If we could possibly remain respectful, that would be awesome. I would like to see this thread kept open and would invite others to share their thoughts without fear of being blasted for their opinions or experiences. TIA and sorry for the rant.

Thank you Zuri for your wonderful thoughts. I want everyone here to be respected for their opinions and thoughts. For all to feel welcome on this thread. I had to leave for a bit and calm down after that last post. It was starting to really bother me.

Without having lived with PS or JS I don't feel I have the right to judge how they lived or how they treated one another. I don't know what their dynamic's were. jmo

 

[Jewels53]

I suffer so I have been really avoiding this thread, but on that note I have not killed anyone (dont bash me for this but ) I have not had help other than my husband for 20 years the meds are impossible and hard to stay on steadly and do horrific things to my body , now I have a heart issue and cant , and I have had very dark thoughts and sometimes still do, I am lucky though I always snap back , but honestly I can see how it happens , I was constantly screaming begging for help and it does not come easily, someone should have taken her seriously ....my husband has taken me away from the kids and taken the kids away from me when he knows Im going dark, Ive been much better in the last 10 years but who knows when it can manifest I feel bad for all involved. period

As a fellow suffer, I understand where you come from. I guess I don't consider myself as bad as some, and I am able to take meds. I am glad you have the help of your husband and he can recognize your symptoms.

Thanks for joining in! Hope you can stay well.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I suffer so I have been really avoiding this thread, but on that note I have not killed anyone (dont bash me for this but ) I have not had help other than my husband for 20 years the meds are impossible and hard to stay on steadly and do horrific things to my body , now I have a heart issue and cant , and I have had very dark thoughts and sometimes still do, I am lucky though I always snap back , but honestly I can see how it happens , I was constantly screaming begging for help and it does not come easily, someone should have taken her seriously ....my husband has taken me away from the kids and taken the kids away from me when he knows Im going dark, Ive been much better in the last 10 years but who knows when it can manifest I feel bad for all involved. period

Thanks for sharing your story. You are very brave. I have empathy for you and everyone that suffer with this disease of the mind. It is the most important part of our body. It is the central control system. My heart and prayers go out to you and others struggling with this. I hope you stay well.


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[Whiteorchids]

Thanks -- so that means, whichever way the verdict goes, she's going to be locked up somewhere for a very long time.

ETA: or not...guess it's possible (although unlikely) that she could be released and receive outpatient care; or that she could be committed against her will, but released at a later date.

That reminds me of a case about 20 years ago in central Florida. Retired chemistry teacher from my high school killed his wife (who was my mother's very good friend) -- a failed murder/suicide (well, the suicide part failed) and apparently was found not guilty due to insanity (I wasn't living there at the time, just got my Mom's version). Anyway, he wasn't committed (he was over 70, at this point); instead he was released to the care of his daughter, who took him into her home until he died several years later. I found it hard to imagine that she would have the guy who killed her mother around her children...

Wow that's quite bizarre. I can't imagine they didn't send him away even at his age. I would think he would be more of a risk over 70 with Senility and possible Alzheimer's into the MI mix. I can't imagine that there wasn't any parole conditions against a situation like that. The daughter was not in her right mind to allow endangering her and her children like that. Stupid in my opinion.

 

[YESorNO]

It is a sad day when people with Mental Health Issue's have to argue about it.

We are not all the same!

Yes. Yes.