GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #5

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Arizona has "Guilty but Insane"........off to the "Nut Hut" till you get better/stable, and then you go to prison and serve your time.
 
Bernina said:
http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBResources.nsf/0/BDFE1551AD291A3F85256B29004BF892/$FILE/Criminal.pdf?OpenElement

Page 131+.

According to that, she could be committed, re-evaluated, and released if she meets the criteria.

RULE 3.218. JUDGMENT OF NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF
INSANITY: DISPOSITION OF DEFENDANT
(a) Verdict of Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity. When a person is
found by the jury or the court not guilty of the offense or is found not to be in
violation of probation or community control by reason of insanity, the jury or
judge, in giving the verdict or finding of not guilty judgment, shall state that it
was given for that reason.
(b) Treatment, Commitment, or Discharge after Acquittal. When a
person is found not guilty of the offense or is found not to be in violation of
probation or community control by reason of insanity, if the court then
determines that the defendant presently meets the criteria set forth by law, the
court shall commit the defendant to the Department of Children and Family
Services or shall order outpatient treatment at any other appropriate facility or
service, or shall discharge the defendant. Any order committing the defendant
or requiring outpatient treatment or other outpatient service shall contain:
(1) findings of fact relating to the issue of commitment or other
court-ordered treatment;
(2) copies of any reports of experts filed with the court; and
May 5, 2014 Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure 130
(3) any other psychiatric, psychological, or social work report
submitted to the court relative to the mental state of the defendant.
Click to expand...

My guess is that (if she's found NG by reason of insanity) she'd be treated inpatient until her psychiatrists determine she is no longer a danger to herself or others. Which could be a lifetime And she'd have to demonstrate that she could survive independently on the "outside" -- get a job to support herself, manage her living situation, take her meds, stay away from alcohol, etc. Since she's expressed suicidal ideations for years, and not longer has anything to stop her (like caring for her children) -- that alone would probably keep her in. Plus, today's testimony hinted that she's continuing to have serious mental issues in jail, possibly getting worse (apparently some psychotic episodes; possibly even a new diagnosis of schizophrenia).
 
newone said:
she did have a point though.....if her kids got her ''illness'' they would not be supported because .... no one understood her illness....she was in emotional pain and she did not want them to have the same experience....which is what this ''expert witness'' is alluding to
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minor4th said:
Locked up
Click to expand...

As in an involuntary commitment? That is interesting.
 
Would not surprise me in the least for her to be found guilty now, and overturned on appeal, and NGBRI on retrial.
 
Iowa has similar laws for determining sane vs insane. Several years ago a young man shot his He was found guilty of first degree murder for shooting his old high school football coach to death. The young man has a history of paranoid schizophrenia and claimed voices told him the ex-coach was the devil and he needed to kill him..The young man had acted nutty 2 days before and was taken to a psyc unit for evaluation. He was discharged the next day and killed the coach one day after discharge. He was found guilty of first degree murder despite his delusions. I really believe he may have been insane but its very hard to prove.
JS planned these murders--she waited for the gun and made repeated references in her journal about how she wanted to shoot her children in the mouth because they were mouthy. Yes she is mentally but I think she knew right from wrong --she premeditated the killings. I would vote guilty of first degree murder as a juror because I think the defense did not prove insanity under the law.
 
The loss of two beautiful lives. I watched without sound, then rewatched with sound the court proceedings, I wanted to see reactions and actions without noise. I read all your comments. Then I put in my own experience as a military spouse, dependent, raising kids when spouse is gone for days, weeks, months, years, without nannies, maids, or family help. JS was very lucky to have that help. JS was lucky that her husband did not go on real long deployments. I had full use of the medical facilities and yes, I have experience with mental issues many of which were named, alcohol, but not gambling.....much like JS did. I had no special help like she did, my family could not help out. How lucky she was.

JS from what I see on video has issues but the jail medical has her on medication that has her somewhat even...not perfect by far. Over the past years JS, through her military training, has learned how to manipulate people and their minds very well. So well that she got all kinds of meds. She may not have taken them all, but saved them, mixing them with her drink of preference when she wanted to. This was JS choice....she had that choice, I don't believe she was that ill until she really starts to mix all the junk together. She had a choice.

JS had a choice in drugs, drink and gambling. I bet she was not in bed as much but out gambling. Hence the house was not picked up, dinner was not made. Her choice.

JS also had a choice to continue her career, she could have delayed having children....and there are couples in the military where both have completed a 20 plus year career, have a family and survive....JS had a choice. JS also could have continued her carreer as a government civilian, in many areas. JS had a choice.

Then I thought....the children were not little anymore, they could fend for themselves if needed, the mother in law came when ever needed or there was hired help. JS could have at anytime walked away and said this was all too much. She had that choice. If JS took that choice and walked away, and people do, then the two beautiful lives would have been saved. They were kids...growing up, changing, becoming adults before their time.

She had the choice to buy that gun....she knew right from wrong and knows right from wrong then and now. There is no remorse, watch her, she cries for herself. If JS ever gets out, I am afraid she will kill again.

I could go on and on giving examples, but there is no need.

The one thing that I am surprised JS has not tried to bring into this tragedy was PTSD from her time in the service. Just strange that her defense has stayed away from that.

Guilty, life without parole, is my vote....thanks for listening, and like all who posted their opinions, this is MOO. Have a good night.
 
Whiteorchids said:
Don't worry LampChop if she get that verdict she will not be released. I have medical professionals in my extended family. She will be locked up in the hospital for the criminally insane.

I'm more worried and concerned of a guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree.
Click to expand...

And it is Flordia:blushing: I just dont want her out
 
dr dona said:
Iowa has similar laws for determining sane vs insane. Several years ago a young man shot his He was found guilty of first degree murder for shooting his old high school football coach to death. The young man has a history of paranoid schizophrenia and claimed voices told him the ex-coach was the devil and he needed to kill him..The young man had acted nutty 2 days before and was taken to a psyc unit for evaluation. He was discharged the next day and killed the coach one day after discharge. He was found guilty of first degree murder despite his delusions. I really believe he may have been insane but its very hard to prove.
JS planned these murders--she waited for the gun and made repeated references in her journal about how she wanted to shoot her children in the mouth because they were mouthy. Yes she is mentally but I think she knew right from wrong --she premeditated the killings. I would vote guilty of first degree murder as a juror because I think the defense did not prove insanity under the law.
Click to expand...


Remember that whole ordeal...my husband is a high school football coach. Points out the problems with the insanity defense...ok they are insane...now what? Let them walk in society or put them in a place where they are safe for their own safety and society? Real dilemma.
.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Random thoughts on this case:

The psychologist's assertion that "sane mothers don't kill their children" was a bit hard to swallow. I immediately thought of the case of Francis Newton who was executed in TX for killing her husband and children (with a handgun) so she could cash in their insurance policies. Sanity was never an issue in her case because it was clear that she had been motivated by greed.

I think that IF she tried to "manipulate Calyx's mouth into a smile" that just further confirms my theories about JS's unquenchable need for control. Even in death she still wanted to dictate how the girl "felt" and "behaved" (for lack of better words).

I predict that she will be found sane and guilty. I would probably vote that way if I was on the jury. The bar is really high for insanity in FL.
 
Loudmouth said:
Same thing happened with Andrea Yates. She is now eligible to petition for time outside of the mental hospital.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...seeks-weekly-pass-mental-hospital-church.html
Click to expand...

Andrea Yates was insane at her trial, clearly. JS is not insane at this time. Her medications are being controlled and she is fully aware of what is happening, such as the crying after this last doctor gave her testimony. The doctor is very good at what she does and I think JS believes she may have hurt her chances.

If the State's witnesses are correct and she was not insane what risk does she pose to her ex-husband. I'd say the risk is too high. I do not think she would qualify for an institution and if sent there she would soon be released. Wasn't it her own doctors that never saw this coming??? jmo
 
Thank you Bernina for posting the Florida Statutes, and to everyone for sharing their views. Based solely on Florida Law, I would vote Guilty 1st degree. The caveat is, JS is mentally ill and needs help. If Florida Law was written differently, I would vote Guilty but Insane.

This case has been a hard one. I truly feel for JS, her family and the Scheneckers. There are no winners here. The ripple effect JS caused was vast and wide. I read, in the articles linked here, how over 80 kids at CS high school sought counseling at school after her death; over 280 at Beau's middle school. They honored CS at what would have been her high school graduation. Can you imagine how many parents had to reassure their kids that they would not kill them? JS took far more than her two children's lives. She took innocence from those other kids at a far too young age.

JS needs to remain in a place where she will get treatment for the rest of her life. She appears fairly well managed at this time. Interesting what a difference compliance made in her life. If only....
 
Chelly said:
Got a question as I am unsure of FL law for institutionalizing those found NG-Insanity:

If she is institutionalized (hospital), can't she at some point recover from her insanity and be discharged?
Click to expand...

Yes, she can.
First, consider that she's been locked up for just over 2 years, during which time it is obvious that she is faring much better. She was able to sit through the trial with only two outbursts. She did well answering the judge's questions.

Off the top of my head, I think of John Hinkley, who attempted to assassinate President Reagan March 30, 1981. In 1999, he began having longer and longer visits home with his parents. The privilege was revoked when he was caught smuggling in information about Jodi Foster. He resumed his home visits in 2005.

In 2009 he was allowed a dozen visits of 10 days. 3 doctors state his is in remission and does not prove a danger to society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley,_Jr.

More recently, his freedom time has been greatly expanded. See more information at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/27/john-hinckley_n_4867995.html

He has been "safe" for a long time and has been carefully monitored and has slowly been integrated into society.

As for Andrea Yates, I've read she is doing better and is allowed to attend church.

Here is an example of a woman from last year.

Mom Accused of Drowning Girl Wins With Insanity Defense; Now, Can She Re-Enter Society?

A California mother accused of drowning her 3-year-old daughter walked away a free woman this past week after she was found not guilty by reason of insanity and a judge deemed her fit to reenter society.

So after three years of treatment and incarceration, Jennifer Lynn Bigham will begin the process of reintegrating herself back into everyday life.
Click to expand...

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mom-accused-drowning-girl-wins-insanity-defense-now/story?id=18315734

Some go free way too soon, IMHO. Here is an example:

Ellen Feinberg was released in 2009, seven years after the Champaign pediatrician was found not guilty by reason of insanity in the stabbing of her two sons. Her oldest boy, Adam, 10, was killed.

Three experts agreed Feinberg suffered from major depression and psychosis during the 2002 attack. Feinberg, 54, now lives in a downtown Chicago apartment, public records showed. She did not respond to requests for comment.
Click to expand...

There are many cases where doctors get flim-flammed by patients and agree to their release, thinking they are no longer a danger to society.

JS is a puzzle. She is a difficult patient to treat which would not bode well for her. However, she did augment her problems with drugs, drink, and pills. She expected her family to orbit around her and see to her needs. Her husband needed to work in order to support the family. The children were loved less when they chafed under the stress of her life and blamed her. She had no compassion for her children. When they crossed her, she became angry with them. I can't begin to imagine how Calyx, the older, reacted to a letter from her mother trying to explain her illness.

We adults have a hard time understanding. How does a young teen ever understand that she is not a priority in her mother's life and that her mother's needs will always be more important than hers? Her own mother even opined that Calyx might not be able to join her and Beau in heaven.

I'm not sure if JS, if found not guilty by reason of insanity would spend the rest of her life in prison. Who will be there to lead her down the road to life in freedom?
 
CarolinaMoon said:
Yes, she can.
First, consider that she's been locked up for just over 2 years, during which time it is obvious that she is faring much better. She was able to sit through the trial with only two outbursts. She did well answering the judge's questions.

Off the top of my head, I think of John Hinkley, who attempted to assassinate President Reagan March 30, 1981. In 1999, he began having longer and longer visits home with his parents. The privilege was revoked when he was caught smuggling in information about Jodi Foster. He resumed his home visits in 2005.

In 2009 he was allowed a dozen visits of 10 days. 3 doctors state his is in remission and does not prove a danger to society. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley,_Jr.

More recently, his freedom time has been greatly expanded. See more information at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/27/john-hinckley_n_4867995.html

He has been "safe" for a long time and has been carefully monitored and has slowly been integrated into society.

As for Andrea Yates, I've read she is doing better and is allowed to attend church.

Here is an example of a woman from last year.



http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mom-accused-drowning-girl-wins-insanity-defense-now/story?id=18315734

Some go free way too soon, IMHO. Here is an example:



There are many cases where doctors get flim-flammed by patients and agree to their release, thinking they are no longer a danger to society.

JS is a puzzle. She is a difficult patient to treat which would not bode well for her. However, she did augment her problems with drugs, drink, and pills. She expected her family to orbit around her and see to her needs. Her husband needed to work in order to support the family. The children were loved less when they chafed under the stress of her life and blamed her. She had no compassion for her children. When they crossed her, she became angry with them. I can't begin to imagine how Calyx, the older, reacted to a letter from her mother trying to explain her illness.

We adults have a hard time understanding. How does a young teen ever understand that she is not a priority in her mother's life and that her mother's needs will always be more important than hers? Her own mother even opined that Calyx might not be able to join her and Beau in heaven.

I'm not sure if JS, if found not guilty by reason of insanity would spend the rest of her life in prison. Who will be there to lead her down the road to life in freedom?
Click to expand...

She can also be paroled being convicted of first degree unless convicted of first degree with life WITHOUT parole. She has no prior felony record except the car accident probably a misdemeanor. Her punishment would be decided at sentencing hearing.

If she gets any of the (guilty) lesser charges for instance manslaughter she could be paroled in a few years. She has already served three.

I don't know Florida's law as what percentage of sentence inmates are required to serve before up for parole.
 
Whiteorchids said:
She can also be paroled being convicted of first degree unless convicted of first degree with life WITHOUT parole. She has no prior felony record except the car accident probably a misdemeanor. Her punishment would be decided at sentencing hearing.

If she gets any of the (guilty) lesser charges for instance manslaughter she could be paroled in a few years. She has already served three.

I don't know Florida's law as what percentage of sentence inmates are required to serve before up for parole.
Click to expand...

In Florida, life is life. There is no parole. On 2nd degree, I'm not sure of the sentencing guideline, but one can get 15% gain time and get out early.

Anyway, Florida does have a gun enhancement. You have 10 years automatically added to your sentence if you used a gun to commit the crime.

Michael Dunn, also in FL, was convicted on 3 attempted murder charges, each carrying a 20 year sentence. Plus 10 years EACH for using his gun. Even before his next murder trial, he could get 90 years. They would have to be served consecutively because there were 3 separate victims.
 
Zuri said:
Thank you Bernina for posting the Florida Statutes, and to everyone for sharing their views. Based solely on Florida Law, I would vote Guilty 1st degree. The caveat is, JS is mentally ill and needs help. If Florida Law was written differently, I would vote Guilty but Insane.

This case has been a hard one. I truly feel for JS, her family and the Scheneckers. There are no winners here. The ripple effect JS caused was vast and wide. I read, in the articles linked here, how over 80 kids at CS high school sought counseling at school after her death; over 280 at Beau's middle school. They honored CS at what would have been her high school graduation. Can you imagine how many parents had to reassure their kids that they would not kill them? JS took far more than her two children's lives. She took innocence from those other kids at a far too young age.
JS needs to remain in a place where she will get treatment for the rest of her life. She appears fairly well managed at this time. Interesting what a difference compliance made in her life. If only....
Click to expand...

BBM

Thank you Zuri for highlighting the hidden damage to the psyches of the children in the community and your assessment of innocence lost is both heartfelt and insightful.

Those kids who knew BS & CS must have been traumatized beyond words and you are so right ....it's an age where kids don't exactly like their parents on the best of days and it would be very scary for them. The crime here was betrayal on a most primal and intimate level. Trust is hardwon even on a good day with teens.
 
CarolinaMoon said:
In Florida, life is life. There is no parole. On 2nd degree, I'm not sure of the sentencing guideline, but one can get 15% gain time and get out early.

Anyway, Florida does have a gun enhancement. You have 10 years automatically added to your sentence if you used a gun to commit the crime.

Michael Dunn, also in FL, was convicted on 3 attempted murder charges, each carrying a 20 year sentence. Plus 10 years EACH for using his gun. Even before his next murder trial, he could get 90 years. They would have to be served consecutively because there were 3 separate victims.
Click to expand...

Lets hope it's life.

I only heard murder in the first degree, 2nd degree, manslaughter, and the gun charge when the judge was going over the jury instructions.

So if its first degree automatic life sentence since DP off the table?

Makes me nervous since Florida acquitted Casey Anthony. She was so obviously guilty of murder.
 
CarolinaMoon said:
Yes, she can.
First, consider that she's been locked up for just over 2 years, during which time it is obvious that she is faring much better. She was able to sit through the trial with only two outbursts. She did well answering the judge's questions.
<snip>JS is a puzzle. She is a difficult patient to treat which would not bode well for her. However, she did augment her problems with drugs, drink, and pills. She expected her family to orbit around her and see to her needs. Her husband needed to work in order to support the family. The children were loved less when they chafed under the stress of her life and blamed her. She had no compassion for her children. When they crossed her, she became angry with them. I can't begin to imagine how Calyx, the older, reacted to a letter from her mother trying to explain her illness.

We adults have a hard time understanding. How does a young teen ever understand that she is not a priority in her mother's life and that her mother's needs will always be more important than hers? Her own mother even opined that Calyx might not be able to join her and Beau in heaven.

I'm not sure if JS, if found not guilty by reason of insanity would spend the rest of her life in prison. Who will be there to lead her down the road to life in freedom?
Click to expand...

rsbm/bbm: Agreed. She is sober, and someone makes sure she is taking her meds in a very structured controlled enviroment. There has been mention of problems while locked up. Yes, she did well answering questions, but that is a far cry from being "well", imo. She is also very intelligent and a con artist. With little support, I don't want her out roaming the streets.

jmo
 
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