GUILTY FL - Charles Kinsey, autistic caregiver, North Miami, July 2016 -guilty of misdemeanor

[Hatfield]

We'll have to wait for the officers version. With what we know, I think some charge should be brought. I think it absurd that the officer would shoot just because he could. jmo

JMO
I think the problem is toward the beginning. The officer should have never pointed his weapon at the guy who had his hands up. I think that is where the officer failed in this situation. If a person has their hands up with no weapon then there is no reason for the officer to be pointing his own weapon at him. The guy was not a threat to anyone.

There are many things the officer did wrong in this case. I think he may have accidentally pulled the trigger and doesn't want to admit it. But he should not have even been pointing it at him in the first place. That's where the mistake started IMO .

Three things have to had happened in order for him to shoot him. The first thing all officers do so we will not count that one. The second and third ones is where the officer failed.

1-Having gun with bullet in chamber and ready to fire. I believe LE officers always have their guns with a bullet in chamber so this one we will not count as a mistake. the next two were mistakes.

2-pointing the barrel of his weapon at the guy with his hands up in air. He should not have pointed it at him. He would not have shot him if it wasn't pointed at him.

3-pulling the trigger.
Either hammer was cocked back before he got to the guy OR with double action it takes much more pull to pull trigger. So he either pulled trigger hard on purpose or had the hammer back already and was ready to fire which just a slight pull of trigger
Either way this officer pulled the trigger on a guy who was no threat to anyone.

 

[bluesneakers]

Press Conference:
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=miami press conference

Representative Frederica Wilson speaks directly to community and police relationships. She says they know and trust LE and this is an unexpected nightmare.

Shocked, stunned.

She went to the White House to be with an officer receiving a medal of honor.

 

[Hatfield]

I just wish in cases like this that LE would admit to mistakes they make and not try to cover up or try to wash it over as some sort of other excuse like we sometimes here. We sometimes hear that the officer felt threatened in some way so shooting ends up being justified is the excuse we sometimes hear.

In this case if it really was just a bad error then please just admit that and own up to it and face the consequences. That would go a long way to improving relations with the public.

 

[Tillicum]

At a news conference Thursday, North Miami Police Chief Gary Eugene said the investigation had been turned over to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the office of the state's attorney. He called it a "very sensitive matter" and promised a transparent investigation, but he refused to identify the officer or answer reporters' questions.

"I realize there are many questions about what happened on Monday night. You have questions, the community has questions, we as a city, we as a member of this police department and I also have questions," he said. "I assure you we will get all the answers."

The chief said officers responded following reports of a man with a gun threatening to kill himself, and the officers arrived "with that threat in mind" — but no gun was recovered.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-shoot-autistic-mans-caretaker-lies-street-40763629

 

[ohreally]

Isn't always interesting how it takes LE a week to release an explaination.



Even just common sense, for someone supposedly trained , ought to be able to "know" and conclude that they were observing someone obviouluy struggling with some malady, that is not threatening. He was swooshing his toy around in the air, not making eye contact (That is autism) How these guys felt threatened is qctually indicative of the climate they have created by shooting unarmed people for the last year.


And noone going to jail is escalating everything to the place where we are now imo




But then we have a cop , 8 feet away, shooting the wrong person. THAT is another whole issue imo- its not like it was a chaotic scene, at least as far as we know now moo




OK, that is an option, but its "ok" having never held or seen a real gun if I made a mistake like that! Trained people with two people out in the middle of nowhere - thats concerning, just like doctors who accidenlty amputate the wrong limb --bothersome!


shortened:


I am not defending the officer, but police officers are investigated is quite different than other arrests to make sure that it is not their own agency deciding the officers guilt or innocence.

You make very good points and again I am not defending the officer. I do agree the process allows for angers to fester, but it is the process.
At this time it is my opinion, I do not think the officer was shooting at a black man. I think he was shooting at the autistic man, and like you said that is another issue.
To say that officers were investigated by outside agency's only after the Freddie Grey case is not true. In 2014 Orange County Florida state attorney took it a step further than being investigated by their own agency they put all officer involved cases in front of a grand jury.
I have seen no indication that police department or the state attorney office is making excuses why the office shot his gun, and every indication they are following the law. What more can they do then to follow the law?
Maybe laws do need to be changed I don't know. The police departments do not make law so I don't see how they can be judged by following the law. IMO

 

[CARIIS]

Very few incidents of force result in charges of excessive force, says Henriquez. From 1994-98, his project documented 147,362 incidents of police-related force and 6,163 complaints, only 654 of which were sustained by review boards. That’s only .44 percent of force being considered excessive, he says.
But Alison Collins, who wrote a report on police brutality in the U.S. for the group Human Rights Watch, has different numbers. She says the Justice Department receives “12,000 complaints every year of law enforcement abuse,” fewer than 50 of which result in convictions — often the fault of the legal system, not the complainants, according to her.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96509&page=1


From a Sheriff:
We all come to these positions from a diverse array of backgrounds – many are police officers; some are lifelong corrections officials; others (like me) are former prosecutors. One quality unites us all – absolutely none of us signed up to run the largest mental health institutions in our respective communities.
Yet that is where we find ourselves. As we know all too well, jails and prisons now serve as the largest mental health providers in 44 of the 50 states. Through benign neglect and disastrous public policies, state and local governments have apparently decided over the past few decades that it is perfectly acceptable for our jails to serve as warehouses for the mentally ill.

I came to my breaking point on this issue several years ago. I grew tired of the runaround and empty promises from elected officials who continued to senselessly slash mental health budgets with no regard to the long-term effects on our criminal justice systems

Fascinating -totally delicious an honest person!

http://www.cookcountysheriff.org/MentalHealthTemplate.html

 

[ohreally]

Very few incidents of force result in charges of excessive force, says Henriquez. From 1994-98, his project documented 147,362 incidents of police-related force and 6,163 complaints, only 654 of which were sustained by review boards. That’s only .44 percent of force being considered excessive, he says.
But Alison Collins, who wrote a report on police brutality in the U.S. for the group Human Rights Watch, has different numbers. She says the Justice Department receives “12,000 complaints every year of law enforcement abuse,” fewer than 50 of which result in convictions — often the fault of the legal system, not the complainants, according to her.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96509&page=1


From a Sheriff:
We all come to these positions from a diverse array of backgrounds – many are police officers; some are lifelong corrections officials; others (like me) are former prosecutors. One quality unites us all – absolutely none of us signed up to run the largest mental health institutions in our respective communities.
Yet that is where we find ourselves. As we know all too well, jails and prisons now serve as the largest mental health providers in 44 of the 50 states. Through benign neglect and disastrous public policies, state and local governments have apparently decided over the past few decades that it is perfectly acceptable for our jails to serve as warehouses for the mentally ill.

I don't think the statistics from twenty years ago can be applied to today. Just from listening to when the Dallas police chief was talking those statistics would probably of held true to his department at that time, yet don't hold true to his statistics today.

 

[Lato]

This incident has made me ill......a black man with his hands up is shot......a white man with a toy of some type is sitting there.
Neither of them should have received any injury.
When will we learn to talk to each other? and to listen to each other?
I guess I could go on but I am afraid I would be on time out so quickly.
Is this what it is like to be black in America?

 

[bluesneakers]

This incident has made me ill......a black man with his hands up is shot......a white man with a toy of some type is sitting there.
Neither of them should have received any injury.
When will we learn to talk to each other? and to listen to each other?
I guess I could go on but I am afraid I would be on time out so quickly.
Is this what it is like to be black in America?

Yes. One of the upsetting things about this imo is he was forced to put his own safety before the safety of the person he was caring for. What a terrible choice to be faced with. Did he know the officers might shoot him but they wouldn't fire at the young man? I'm not judging him for doing it - I don't blame him at all (thank god he got away with his life). The young man escaped without injury so it was the right choice. It's just heartbreaking (and maddening) that it's come to this.

eta: I suppose he might not have even considered they would shoot at the young man. He knew there was a chance they would shoot at him though IMO.

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think the statistics from twenty years ago can be applied to today. Just from listening to when the Dallas police chief was talking those statistics would probably of held true to his department at that time, yet don't hold true to his statistics today.

Since becoming Sheriff in 2006, he has introduced sweeping changes at theCook County Jail, the nation’s largest sing

In 2009, Time magazine named Sheriff Dart one of the 100 Most InfluentialPeople in the World, thanks to his groundbreaking efforts.


http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IF/IF02/20140326/101980/HHRG-113-IF02-Bio-DartT-20140326.pdf

 

[Sarahlou]

This is just disgraceful. The poor guy. The way some of the police behave in the US is truly shocking. I watched a BBC programme about it recently about the people who go around filming the police in NYC.
I would not want to be a black person living there that's for sure.

 

[silversurvivor]

Just my own experience
I worked in a school and residence for emotionally disturbed teens (13-21) for 14 yrs. There we're many "escapees" during that time. Some times we had to go out and retrieve them from a local mall. Occasionally cops were called on us but our locals knew about us (the school/residence and students usually in a bad way aka arrests . ). We had ID in case but never had to worry about being shot even if we were restraining some one.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[Woodland]

At a news conference Thursday, North Miami Police Chief Gary Eugene said the investigation had been turned over to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the office of the state's attorney. He called it a "very sensitive matter" and promised a transparent investigation, but he refused to identify the officer or answer reporters' questions.

"I realize there are many questions about what happened on Monday night. You have questions, the community has questions, we as a city, we as a member of this police department and I also have questions," he said. "I assure you we will get all the answers."

The chief said officers responded following reports of a man with a gun threatening to kill himself, and the officers arrived "with that threat in mind" — but no gun was recovered.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-shoot-autistic-mans-caretaker-lies-street-40763629

UBM - imo, that will be the 'out' for this officer.

And no assessment on arrival? Sorely missing imo. The situation was in full view for the officer(s) according to the video - and the audio.

The victim will be paid off - and that is likely, imo, to be the end of it as far as justice is concerned. Justice should be more concerned - for the next time.

 

[Woodland]

I don't think the statistics from twenty years ago can be applied to today. Just from listening to when the Dallas police chief was talking those statistics would probably of held true to his department at that time, yet don't hold true to his statistics today.

On the contrary - it might reflect just how long such incidents have been festering. Likely much longer. Jmo.

 

[Trident]

MY OPINION ONLY, but I believe it's possible the policeman went into this situation tense, possibly afraid for his life after the 911 call about a man with a gun threatening suicide. After he saw what it was, he was possibly still on edge, wondering about an ambush. Rightly or wrongly, he had his gun out, prepared for whatever and I believe, at that point, his nerves just got the best of him and he just shot reflexively.

Probably this man doesn't belong in police work, but from what I've heard so far, he didn't shoot out of malice toward anyone. Once again, IMO, I believe it may have been a reflex brought about by nerves from what has transpired over the past couple of weeks.

 

[Woodland]

MY OPINION ONLY, but I believe it's possible the policeman went into this situation tense, possibly afraid for his life after the 911 call about a man with a gun threatening suicide. After he saw what it was, he was possibly still on edge, wondering about an ambush. Rightly or wrongly, he had his gun out, prepared for whatever and I believe, at that point, his nerves just got the best of him and he just shot reflexively.

Probably this man doesn't belong in police work, but from what I've heard so far, he didn't shoot out of malice toward anyone. Once again, IMO, I believe it may have been a reflex brought about by nerves from what has transpired over the past couple of weeks.

LE is responsible for this incident. No one else.

 

[Portabella]

LE is responsible for this incident. No one else.

LE as a whole is not responsible for this incident, the officer in question is. Either the officer did not follow his training, or.... he lost control. Either way he should be held accountable for his actions, removed from the force, and charged. Many people, without malice hit someone in the street or have an accident and kill someone, they are charged, it must be heard by the courts.

Now if its found that he did not have adequate training, then his dept up the line is to be held responsible. I believe this officer had his finger on the trigger (which you never do unless you are going to shoot), that combined with an adrenaline dump, I think he messed up. I hope he will come clean on it. IMHO

 

[Trident]

LE is responsible for this incident. No one else.

I don't believe I blamed anyone else for what happened. I've had my own reflexes take over when stressed and simply wondered if this could have happened with the policeman.

 

[bluesneakers]

LE is responsible for this incident. No one else.

Absolutely. They can't say they were in danger or the two were advancing at the officers or at anyone else.

Without the video I wonder how different the story would be.

 

[ohreally]

On the contrary - it might reflect just how long such incidents have been festering. Likely much longer. Jmo.

If the present day statistics were put next to those of twenty years ago I could agree, but standing alone I don't see how we can say those statistics hold true today. One example is the Dallas statistics they are amazingly lower than twenty years ago.