FL FL - Clifford & Christine Walker, both 23, & 2 kids, Osprey, 20 Dec 1959

[tomvee]

I requested and received the case file.

Smith and Hickock were in Sarasota on December 17th, according to several witnesses. They spent the night of the 18th in Miami, and left the next morning. They were spotted back in Sarasota on the 19th, the likely day of the murders.

On the 20th, after the bodies had been discovered, attendants at two separate gas stations on US 17 south of Arcadia encountered Smith and Hickock (Hickock with a "scratched up" face). They asked how to get to Bairs Den without going through Arcadia. Bairs Den was a restaurant (with a service station) at the intersection of FL 70 and US 27. So, for Smith and Hickock to know about it, they must have passed it, either on the 17th or 18th (on the way from Sarasota to Miami), or on the 19th (on the way back from Miami).

Their desire to get to Bairs Den without going through Arcadia leads me to believe they wanted to avoid being recognized in Arcadia, implying (at least to me) that they did something illegal in Arcadia on the 17th or 18th. I am waiting for the Desoto County Sheriff to respond to my request for crime reports for 17, 18th and 19th of December.

I would also like to see the mugshots from their arrest in Las Vegas, but I haven't had any luck getting them. If Hickock was noticeably scratched up on December 20th, there might be evidence of that on the mugshot from the 30th.

Also, there is a statement by a recent investigator that every suspect that provided DNA has been excluded as being the contributor of the crime scene DNA except for Perry Smith. It did not give a list of which suspects were being referred to. If true, this implies that Hickock's DNA was actually conclusive in excluding him, and that only Perry's DNA was inconclusive.

It is beginning to look more and more like the obvious suspects might be obvious for a reason - they did it. If they didn't, we have a lot of coincidences to explain away.

 

[allmybecsloveme]

I really see all of those as coincidences and nothing more. There are 3-4 of the other suspects that seem *MUCH* more likely to have killed them than Smith/Hitchcock.

Also, earlier in the thread someone mentioned that Perry Smith would not allow Hitchcock to rape the woman in Kansas. Neither raped her. If this is true, why would Perry rape Christine?

I honestly think everything points to a personal motive. It was almost certainly someone who knew them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[scriptgirl]

I don't think it was the In Cold Blood guys. This was personal. Christine's cheerleading uniform and wedding license/certificate were taken. This was someone who knew her.

 

[Eagle]

I requested and received the case file.

Smith and Hickock were in Sarasota on December 17th, according to several witnesses. They spent the night of the 18th in Miami, and left the next morning. They were spotted back in Sarasota on the 19th, the likely day of the murders.

On the 20th, after the bodies had been discovered, attendants at two separate gas stations on US 17 south of Arcadia encountered Smith and Hickock (Hickock with a "scratched up" face). They asked how to get to Bairs Den without going through Arcadia. Bairs Den was a restaurant (with a service station) at the intersection of FL 70 and US 27. So, for Smith and Hickock to know about it, they must have passed it, either on the 17th or 18th (on the way from Sarasota to Miami), or on the 19th (on the way back from Miami).

Their desire to get to Bairs Den without going through Arcadia leads me to believe they wanted to avoid being recognized in Arcadia, implying (at least to me) that they did something illegal in Arcadia on the 17th or 18th. I am waiting for the Desoto County Sheriff to respond to my request for crime reports for 17, 18th and 19th of December.

I would also like to see the mugshots from their arrest in Las Vegas, but I haven't had any luck getting them. If Hickock was noticeably scratched up on December 20th, there might be evidence of that on the mugshot from the 30th.

Also, there is a statement by a recent investigator that every suspect that provided DNA has been excluded as being the contributor of the crime scene DNA except for Perry Smith. It did not give a list of which suspects were being referred to. If true, this implies that Hickock's DNA was actually conclusive in excluding him, and that only Perry's DNA was inconclusive.

It is beginning to look more and more like the obvious suspects might be obvious for a reason - they did it. If they didn't, we have a lot of coincidences to explain away.

Good work, hope you let us know .... and if there is anything we can try to dig up in Kansas, would be glad to do it............... if it would be helpful at all .

I lived off on with my grandfather back then on his farm. He was extremely upset by this case. They said he would die from a condition he had if he had another attack ... he had 10 more attacks, and kept saying .. he wouldn't die until he saw them hang. He died about 6 months after they were hung from another attack. So, I heard a lot about the case here and have read up on it, the people, etc. and more info pops up now and then on it.

 

[mysterymike]

I have followed this case for about 3 years now and based on what I have read to date, I believe that Wilbur Tooker and Curtis McCall are the best suspects.

Unlike many other unsolved murders, I do believe the killer/s is among the many suspects that have been investigated or mentioned over the years since the murders.

 

[Eagle]

I have followed this case for about 3 years now and based on what I have read to date, I believe that Wilbur Tooker and Curtis McCall are the best suspects.

Unlike many other unsolved murders, I do believe the killer/s is among the many suspects that have been investigated or mentioned over the years since the murders.

I agree. I have been fairly convinced now that Perry & Smith didn't do it.

 

[scriptgirl]

Yeah, te killer is someone who knew Christine.

 

[ScHoLaR oF STuFF]

Here's a large trove of Christine Walker pics, many of which were never published to the public.
scroll them: details/family stories about the pics are paragraphed a bit down the page...

http://galleries.heraldtribune.com/gallery/361493#/0

 

[ScHoLaR oF STuFF]

A Walker family homicide podcast that aired July 2017, hosted by True Crime All the Time Cold Cases.

https://dfkfj8j276wwv.cloudfront.ne...e3d5c132757a4ef635d/Walker_Family_Murders.mp3

 

[Eagle]

I requested and received the case file.

Does it show any info on the .22 Rifle found later on, in the ground a bit not far from their house sometime later ???

That still bothers me, as it seems they didn't follow up on that much, and the murder weapon being a .22 .... makes me shake my head a lot. To me no one just ditches a ..22 rifle back in those times. There were several models and I know a lot of them during that period. Out in the country nearly everyone had one, if they could afford it. But.... not the same models....... and depends on the model how common it was or wasn't.

 

[Eagle]

I have followed this case for about 3 years now and based on what I have read to date, I believe that Wilbur Tooker and Curtis McCall are the best suspects.

Unlike many other unsolved murders, I do believe the killer/s is among the many suspects that have been investigated or mentioned over the years since the murders.

I think Wiibur Tooker is a very big candidate. I can't find a thing to eliminate this guy, and what I do see, makes him even more likely.

 

[Eagle]

Some good info ;

http://whatliesbeyond.boards.net/thread/3020/december-1959-walker-family-murders

 

[Eagle]

I think Wiibur Tooker is a very big candidate. I can't find a thing to eliminate this guy, and what I do see, makes him even more likely.

But Curtis , is the one that sold his .22 gun but couldn't remember who he sold it to , and was so nervous during the 3 polygraphs, they said they could not get any reliable results. He lived 1 mile SW of them. He carried a picture of Christine (odd given she was married and out of HS by 6 yrs) on him and was rumored to be having an affair with her.

Oh, Hickok & Smith; did have a knife found on them ... that has a fruit tree design on it ... they say like Cliff Walker's.

 

[Eagle]

Only Stroudsberg I can find is in Pennyslvania ; This refers to a female bartender in Stroudsberg .... who called them ...

Article in 2011, Sheriff office asking a woman that talked to them in 1994 contact them .... she had called to report that a guy (60's) was in the bar where she was a bartender. He was talking to her and he started crying, and she asked him why. He told her that he had killed a family in Osprey, Florida many years ago ...... when he was a young man, and told her about the murders. She was going to try to get more info & call back, but never did.

Man in 60's in 1994, makes him about Cliff & Christine's age in 1959. Is Curtis McCall still alive, or was he in 1994 ? An opportunity lost ?

http://articles.mcall.com/2011-03-1...110318_1_stroudsburg-area-bartender-cold-case

 

[ScHoLaR oF STuFF]

Does it show any info on the .22 Rifle found later on, in the ground a bit not far from their house sometime later ???

That still bothers me, as it seems they didn't follow up on that much, and the murder weapon being a .22 .... makes me shake my head a lot. To me no one just ditches a ..22 rifle back in those times. There were several models and I know a lot of them during that period. Out in the country nearly everyone had one, if they could afford it. But.... not the same models....... and depends on the model how common it was or wasn't.

Here are the 3 part Walker Family Murder files.
*scroll to the bottom and you will find them
https://www.documentcloud.org/public/search/walker family homicide

 

[tex124]

It seems to me that if they have the DNA, this case would be another candidate for for an investigation on a genealogical web site. For $3000-$6000 they could probably have Parabon Nanolabs figure out who the killer was pretty quickly. I have always thought it was Hickock and Smith and I have not bought the statement that the results of the DNA test were inconclusive. Even if they were, the DNA was good enough to clear a lot of people, so Parabon should be able to figure out an answer fairly quickly. I wonder if the Sheriff's Office has thought about doing that? After 59 years of speculation, it would be nice to see this solved.

 

[Onaliv]

It seems to me that if they have the DNA, this case would be another candidate for for an investigation on a genealogical web site. For $3000-$6000 they could probably have Parabon Nanolabs figure out who the killer was pretty quickly. I have always thought it was Hickock and Smith and I have not bought the statement that the results of the DNA test were inconclusive. Even if they were, the DNA was good enough to clear a lot of people, so Parabon should be able to figure out an answer fairly quickly. I wonder if the Sheriff's Office has thought about doing that? After 59 years of speculation, it would be nice to see this solved.

So frustrating on these really old cases when there seems to be no traction and limited interest.

 

[Richard]

Clifford and Christine Walker

Majorette uniform

December 2019 will mark the 60 year anniversary of these murders.

LINK:

galleries.heraldtribune.com/gallery/361493#/3

 

[Richard]

Bumping this case up...

 

[Sleuthster]

I don't think it was the In Cold Blood guys. This was personal. Christine's cheerleading uniform and wedding license/certificate were taken. This was someone who knew her.

It could be personal. It could have been random also. Those items also could have been taken as trophies. They don't seem to me as items one would take after a revenge or personal killing.