GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU Law Professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 *arrests* #12

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  • #301
Could it be that Katie knew she'd be convicted, but that she never doubted she could deal her way out?
That the tears were only that the trial went as far as it did, that no deal was consummated?
I know this is opposite to the standard view.

My intuition is that she can reveal something bigger than we know.
Something that CA knows too.

If she originally was expecting the Adelsons to help, she and her lawyers would have known that ship had sailed.
It feels like there are missing pieces.

IMO -

i think DeCoste and Kawass continually sold KM a bill of goods. keep your mouth shut, fight this thing, go to trial, the State has no case, we will get you off, and you'll collect a big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

KM is being paid to keep her shut.

DeCoste and Kawass are being paid to convince KM to keep her mouth shut.

Occam's Razor.
 
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  • #302
i think DeCoste and Kawass continually sold KM a bill of goods. keep your mouth shut, fight this thing, go to trial, the State has no case, we will get you off, and you'll collect a big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
I think the DA pulled the deal. There was no deal to take as the evidence piled up. JMO.
 
  • #303
I think the DA pulled the deal. There was no deal to take as the evidence piled up. JMO

IMO - there was no way that DeCoste and Kawass were going to let KM accept or even entertain a deal to rat out the alleged masterminds! CA hired Markus and Markus hired DeCoste and Kawass. i don't believe DeCoste and Kawass even entertained the idea of a deal! even today! and here we are!
 
  • #304
In the "Dan Markel Murder Trial Magbanua Verdict" video, while the Judge was pooling the Jury, attorney Kristen Kawass (experienced appellate attorney who focuses on post-trial litigation according to here website) is seen "mouthing" a phrase without making a sound.
This is odd!

Does anyone know how to read lips?

The Judge said "Juror number 5, is this your true verdict?"
Then, Kristen Kawass moved her lips.
By the time the Judge said "Juror number 7, is this your true verdict?", Kristen Kawass glanced at attorney DeCoste, as if seeking eye contact or approval.
Some odd no verbal communications are going on!

Did Kristen Kawass expect any of the Jurors, say Juror number 5, not to convict?
Do lawyers usually form such "specific Juror expectation" in the course of criminal proceedings?
 
  • #305
In the "Dan Markel Murder Trial Magbanua Verdict" video, while the Judge was pooling the Jury, attorney Kristen Kawass (experienced appellate attorney who focuses on post-trial litigation according to here website) is seen "mouthing" a phrase without making a sound.
This is odd!

Does anyone know how to read lips?

The Judge said "Juror number 5, is this your true verdict?"
Then, Kristen Kawass moved her lips.
By the time the Judge said "Juror number 7, is this your true verdict?", Kristen Kawass glanced at attorney DeCoste, as if seeking eye contact or approval.
Some odd no verbal communications are going on!

Did Kristen Kawass expect any of the Jurors, say Juror number 5, not to convict?
Do lawyers usually form such "specific Juror expectation" in the course of criminal proceedings?
When I practiced we would poll the jury as a standard practice in important cases if the verdict was against us. On a very rare occasion you might see a juror hesitate to respond quickly, which could suggest they were not fully committed to the verdict. In that case, we would have an investigator or associate attorney contact to the juror as soon as permitted to see if there was any possibility of getting them to disclaim their vote. Needless to say, this was very rare, but it did happen on a blue moon.
 
  • #306
When I practiced we would poll the jury as a standard practice in important cases if the verdict was against us. On a very rare occasion you might see a juror hesitate to respond quickly, which could suggest they were not fully committed to the verdict. In that case, we would have an investigator or associate attorney contact to the juror as soon as permitted to see if there was any possibility of getting them to disclaim their vote. Needless to say, this was very rare, but it did happen on a blue moon.
Thank you, VisLaw!
Still, it is my hope someone could review the YouTube video and read Kristen Kawass' lips.
The Judge said "Juror number 5, is this your true verdict?"
Then, Kristen Kawass moved her lips.
It is possible she just said some swear words such as "F ... you!"
I am suspicious of something else, though.
 
  • #307
1. Well OJ was the first time I'd ever heard of someone being called a narcissist and that shoe - or glove, if you will - fits Charlie perfectly.

There's at least some trouble in paradise for CA, however, in that: a) Minkus is no longer defending him for whatever reason and he's now being represented by the same lawyer as his parents (which seems like a conflct), but more importantly b) that his life seems to have been in a steady downward spiral since 2016 with the collapse of his work and friendships and culminating in his new residence at the Leon County jail, likely getting shaken down by gangsters every hour or two.

2. Not only would offers from the State have a relatively early expiration but more importantly, they would be contingent on Magbanua being able to offer and produce brand new evidence that can be corroborated.

Just having Magbanua admit to what the evidence already shows is not enough. In fact, having Magbanua on the stand as a State's witness against CA or DA is actually worth less than zero if shes used only for confirmation because the Defense would make the central issue in the trial whether or not Magbanua, who lied under oath to juries several times for several hours in 2 separate trials, can be trusted this 3rd time now that shes got a deal. I don't think there's even an offer for KM unless she gives them something or someone substantial.

3. Totally agree. Will be interesting to watch how it all unfolds. Kristen Kawass is an appellate attorney and if somehow we get to a point where KM makes no deal and she's filing appeals next year being represented by Kristen Kawass - we might just have ourselves a headscratcher for the ages.

On point two I don't think that KM realistically can give any new evidence except 1. to confirm that she picked up the money for Rivera at at Charlie's house (I believe it's the split level aptment he owns or used own they are referring to). I don't think there's much chance that she recorded any conversations with CJA or WA.

2. She might be able to confirm that CA told her to feed through the Friday 18th July deadline for killing Dan (because of his travel plans) to SG on the second trip as Rivera implies she did . That's a serious item as it implicates Wendi. But how is she to prove that ?


ON this matter (a separate post)
"
The stringent requirements for getting court authorization for wiretaps definitely worked against LE in this case -- they apparently didn't even try to get authorization for DA and WA. "

SGT Corbitt of the TPD confirmed at this trial (I can't quote the minute number in a video but he was definitely asked about the matter ) that they did not or could not get a wiretap authorisation for Donna Adelson. It's pretty clear why - there is no link from her to KM or the killers to show to the judge. A judge is going to assume that anything incriminating she has to say would be passed to CA and there's an authorisation for him already.
 
  • #308
  • #309
Still, it is my hope someone could review the YouTube video and read Kristen Kawass' lips.
Do you have a link? The only I video I can find cuts off right after the judge reads the verdict; it doesn't include the jury polling. Thanks.
 
  • #310
Do you have a link? The only I video I can find cuts off right after the judge reads the verdict; it doesn't include the jury polling. Thanks.
Also, Katie mutters some last word/words to her defense team as they take her away. Can anybody decipher what she said? Anybody with sophisticated audio-enhancement software....?
 
  • #311
Do you have a link? The only I video I can find cuts off right after the judge reads the verdict; it doesn't include the jury polling. Thanks.
 
  • #312
  • #313
This one doesn’t show Kwass’s sister, but not the main Kwass attorney while the jury is polled Was there more than one person videotaping the proceedings?
 
  • #314
  • #315
Do you have a link? The only I video I can find cuts off right after the judge reads the verdict; it doesn't include the jury polling. Thanks.
Several of such videos avail at YouTube and elsewhere.
Here is one of them:
 
  • #316
Several of such videos avail at YouTube and elsewhere.
Here is one of them:

i think KM shook her head no and said "I didn't want this." at 8:27.
 
  • #317
One observation that struck me from Lacasse's (second round of) testimony was that Wendi was "a compulsive liar and not a very good one." That tells us a lot about her testimony. Examples:

--In the first trial, she famously said she didn't know how to spell "Jibbers" when the DA asked because she'd never seen it spelled out. Then the DA pointed out that she had already testified that "Jibbers" was the name she used to store Dan's info in her cellphone.

--In the second trial, when asked whether it was "very important" that she move from Tally to Miami, she said, "It wasn't very important." Cappleman let that one go, perhaps because it was so clearly counter to the weight of the evidence.

--On cross in the last trial, DeCoste asked a terrible question: "Can you think of anyone besides your family who would have wanted Dan dead?" Here's why that was a terrible question: It gave Wendi the opportunity to go wild spinning out every conspiracy theory possible and thereby deflect blame from her family and onto countless other possible murder-plotters. Remember, in her initial police interview she said, "Dan had a lot of enemies." So she could have buried DeCoste and scored points by saying, "Oh it could have been anyone, like (1) someone related to the Prodfather case he was consulting on, (2) some angry student who couldn't get a job during the recession, (3) some 'scamblogger' who was targeting Dan as a smug law professor [FWIW: A lot of people in Dan's field actually did propose this as a possible explanation]; (4) some other professor who was jealous or pissed at Dan for being an 🤬🤬🤬 professionally [NB: Dan was very talented, but could be incredibly brusque and alienated a lot of profs who had different views from him]; and/or (5) some random person like an angry FL motorist toting a gun who Dan cut off in traffic." None of these are true but the point is that DeCoste made a fundamental mistake of allowing a witness the opportunity to speculate wildly on the stand, and instead of taking the invitation to her advantage and letting her tendency to make 🤬🤬🤬🤬 up run wild, Wendi got flummoxed, looked at the judge, and said "That calls for speculation" in an awkward lawyerly attmpt to avoid the question.

So returning to Lacasse's observation: She's a compulsive liar and not a very good one. These examples illsutrate both points beautifully. First, these are not only lies but compulsive ones in the sense that they are totally unnecessary. The first two didn't really advance her case. What would it have mattered if she volunteered how "Jibbers" is spelled? The jury wouldn't have cared. But by lying about it, thinking that the DA couldn't prove that she did know how to spell it, she caught herself up in a lie and ended up harming her cause. It's one thing to lie, what makes it habitual or even compulsive is to do so when you don't even need to.

Then when DeCoste screwed up and gave her a massive opening to propound countless alternative theories for who killed Dan, suddenly Wendi's habitual mendaciousness escaped her and she clammed up. Hence the "not very good at it" means two things: First, her lies are transparent, unnecessary, and so easily exposed they end up hurting her case. And second, when lying might actually help her, she suddenly forgets how.

I dunno if this means anything material for the case but it's satisfying to see someone so poised and self-confident undermine themselves. And second, it relates to the bigger issue--did CA, DA, and maybe also WA really think they could get away with murder using some mid-range thugs for a bargain basement price? Yeah, they apparently did--and happily seem to be in the process of being proved egregiously wrong.
 
  • #318
Presume this order is for SG transport back to prison:


STATE OF FLORIDA vs MAGBANUA, KATHERINE D
6/2/2022
659​
ORTRORDER TO TRANSPORT RETURNED EXECUTED
They kept him in Leon County awhile. Wonder if that’s normal? Maybe he wanted to stay longer to speak to Ms Cappleman about Charlie? Half kidding, but I’m hoping either he or Katherine will finally come clean about The Adelsons. Doubtful, but there’s always a bit of hope.
 
  • #319
How dishonest are these criminal defense lawyers such as Kawass sisters and DeCoste?

In the first Magbanua trial, Tara Kawass said that 1) KM is not involved in the killing of DM and 2) Sigfredo Garcia hates Charles Adelson.
SG defense lawyer Saam Zangeneh also amplified that Garcia hates CA.
Hence, it made no sense that SG would help KM’s boyfriend CA commit murder.

In this line of reasoning, both Kawass and Zangeneh are implying that SG and KM must be innocent.

In the second Magbanua trial, Tara Kawsass said that SG and CA are friends.
And, SG and CA conspired to commit the DM murder unbeknownst to KM.

1) "SG and CA are friends" and 2) "SG hates CA" are two statements that could not have occurred at the same time. Hence, Tara Kawass lied!

If it were a witness doing that, would it be a perjury?
Are these lies and other similar inconsistencies proofs that KM committed perjury (Kawass is her lawyer)?
 
  • #320
They kept him in Leon County awhile. Wonder if that’s normal? Maybe he wanted to stay longer to speak to Ms Cappleman about Charlie? Half kidding, but I’m hoping either he or Katherine will finally come clean about The Adelsons. Doubtful, but there’s always a bit of hope.
Actually the Florida Department of Corrections site showed SG back at Holmes County CI on the Saturday after the trial.

During the trial, it clearly showed his status as "Away from the facility, court order"
 
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