FL FL - David 'Donny' Pichosky, 71, & Rochelle Wise, 66, Hallandale Beach, 10 Jan 2013

[Hazel]

Thanks Hazel for that excellent compilation, very interesting!

Very interesting Hazel.

I haven't had a chance to look through all of the links, but is there any indication that this women 'frequents' Florida? Does anyone know?

You're welcome dotr and Snoopster. There is no mention if she has been in Florida prior to April 2018. This new article has video showing her walking in the Hilton Hotel (in flip flops), then going out to the parking lot and walking to PD's car.

Lois Riess flashed a cherubic smile as she checked into a hotel in Ocala, Fla., hardly looking like a gambling grandmother believed to have killed her husband in Blooming Prairie, Minn., and a woman she had met just the day before in Fort Myers Beach [Florida].

http://www.startribune.com/u-s-mars...king-coldblooded-killer-lois-riess/480119563/

 

[dotr]

Bumping with another recent distraction theft in Toronto, the description of the female poi reminded me of this case, fwiw, imo, speculation.
Nun robbed of gold necklace in alleged distraction theft
Jul 10, 2019 rbbm.
"It was reported that around 1:30 p.m. on June 18, a small, black SUV pulled up to an address on Risebrough Circuit, in the Birchmount Road and Streeles Avenue area of Markham, and waved over a nun.

A female suspect, who was in the car along with two other people, allegedly told the nun that she needed a prayer for a dying family member. She then put a large chain necklace around the nun’s neck and a ring on her finger, telling the victim that it was a thank you gift.

When the SUV drove off the nun realized her gold necklace was gone.

The female suspect is described as in her 30s with a heavy build, long, dirty-blonde hair and was wearing a white-flowered long-sleeve shirt.

One of the male suspects was described as having tanned skin, short black hair in a buzz cut and a short, black, full beard".

 

[dotr]

The Forward
Another "distraction" bump, once again reminded of the unsolved and senseless murder of DP and RW and the suspected women involved.
Toronto Police Service :: News Release #47150

CP24
May 20, 2020 rbbm.
''Case #: 2020- 909295
The Toronto Police Service would like to make the public aware of a series of distraction thefts that are taking place throughout the Greater Toronto Area.

It is reported that:
- a group of two or three women were travelling around in a vehicle
- a woman exits the vehicle and approaches people
- the woman then advises she has a piece of jewelry that belonged to her father and begins to give it to the victim
- the woman places a piece of fake jewelry around the victim's neck
- at the same time, the woman then removes the victim's personal jewelry
The woman is described as white, 40 to 45 years of age, with red hair in a bun.
One of the women was seen wearing long gold coloured earrings, floral coloured blouse, and wearing a long purple or blue shawl, with a black skirt and black running shoes. The vehicle they were seen in is described as a white, four door Volkswagen Tiguan SUV.''
GTA distraction theft targeting 94-year-old man caught on camera

Group of women taking jewelry in distraction thefts, Toronto police warn

 

[Warwick1991]

I have been interested in this case for a long time, and it is very disturbing that it is still unsolved. I live in the next county, but have visited friends of mine who stay in Hallandale Beach during the winter.

I find this crime difficult to analyze. I do not think that Rochelle’s diamond ring was the target or motivation. The reason is that it is very difficult to assess either the value of or authenticity of a gemstone unless it can be examined under a loupe. Carats and quality would not be easily ascertained by a predator who identified the couple as targets. The value of the ring wouldn’t be apparent to the thieves until they tried to pawn it IMOP, and even if they pawned it they might never realize its value.

My thought is that a pair of predators were somehow drawn to the couple in Wal-Mart, and followed over a period of time. My theory is that the predators may have seen the couple with a substantial amount of cash, which the Pichoskys may have had with them. As a Canadians, perhaps they didn’t have a US bank account, and used a lot of cash instead of credit cards or checks that might have had currency exchange fees. Just my theory.

These deaths were so needless and evil. I hope the perpetrators will eventually be caught. I have a Canadian relatives who vacation here, and I find the crime haunting and very disturbing.

 

[dotr]

Re post 2013
At least 2 killers sought in Canadian couple's asphyxiation deaths, Hallandale police say
''Flournoy on Wednesday laid out a timeline of their final 48 hours:

After leaving synagogue at Chabad of South Broward on the evening of Jan. 8, they stopped at a Walmart on Hallandale Beach Boulevard.

Their last outside contact was on the morning of Jan. 9, when they spent online "face time" with family members.

After they missed a lunch date and failed to answer the phone, a neighbor with a spare key found their bodies on the evening of Jan. 10.''

Not going to comment on this article (posted it some time ago on the Honey and Barry Sherman murders thread)
very strange, 3/4 down.
Lurid Suit Over Hate Mail Embroils Isaac Perlmutter, Marvel Chief

 

[Warwick1991]

I am inclined to think that Isaac Perlmutter has nothing to do with the Pichosky murders. My thought is that the 2 women involved (DNA verified 2 female perpetrators) are predators who were either local or drawn to South Florida as drifters, and have no connections to Toronto. The shoe prints, from an out-of-production shoe, may belong to someone who was in prison, and was later released with the clothing they entered with, unworn during their prison term. That could explain a shoe that was still sound enough to leave clear impressions, but was 13 years old... Of course, there may be other explanations for the shoe, such as a thrift store purchase.

South Florida has a lot of opportunistic crime, and there is a large population of addicts, some drawn by the many fraudulent drug rehab facilities - many now shut down - in the region. Even if one’s lifestyle is conservative, it is possible to be relatively random victim of violent crime in this area.

While some kind of scheme by parties in Toronto is possible, I think the crime was perpetrated by opportunistic criminals who were here to commit crimes and working only with each other. I think they might not be from Florida, otherwise their DNA might have been identified.

The vehicle they used might be very important if an image survived on a surveillance camera someplace. Even if it was a rental car, it could still be traced.

 

[dotr]

I am inclined to think that Isaac Perlmutter has nothing to do with the Pichosky murders. My thought is that the 2 women involved (DNA verified 2 female perpetrators) are predators who were either local or drawn to South Florida as drifters, and have no connections to Toronto. The shoe prints, from an out-of-production shoe, may belong to someone who was in prison, and was later released with the clothing they entered with, unworn during their prison term. That could explain a shoe that was still sound enough to leave clear impressions, but was 13 years old... Of course, there may be other explanations for the shoe, such as a thrift store purchase.

South Florida has a lot of opportunistic crime, and there is a large population of addicts, some drawn by the many fraudulent drug rehab facilities - many now shut down - in the region. Even if one’s lifestyle is conservative, it is possible to be relatively random victim of violent crime in this area.

While some kind of scheme by parties in Toronto is possible, I think the crime was perpetrated by opportunistic criminals who were here to commit crimes and working only with each other. I think they might not be from Florida, otherwise their DNA might have been identified.

The vehicle they used might be very important if an image survived on a surveillance camera someplace. Even if it was a rental car, it could still be traced.

Maybe they are "tourist" criminals, fly in steal, kill whatever and then go back home.
To clarify, no doubt IP has nothing to do with this and those women who allegedly did do it might be wandering around anywhere doing the same kind of thing! speculation, imo.

 

[Warwick1991]

Thousands of people come to Florida seasonally, and that includes some criminals. The large number of tourists allows for anonymity. There is a long history of people with criminal histories who have migrated here. It is a magnet for visitors and immigrants, and along with the many ordinary people, there are predators. I think the perpetrators were from an area with a colder winter and bleak prospects, and came here to “ply their trade.” They may still be here, or be long gone. I would hope that their DNA offers the greatest opportunity for arrests. The use of genetics and genealogy may yield answers. The police must have hold backs, but it sounds like evidence was left behind.

 

[Warwick1991]

It is now over 8 years, and this cruel double murder has not been solved. The Hallandale Beach Police worked with DNA to obtain the gender, heritage and some physical characteristics of one of the perpetrators. I think that genetic genealogy now offers more options for tracing the perpetrators. I hope the Hallandale Beach PD is considering this; they were forward thinking about the use of DNA.

I still see this crime as a fundamentally opportunistic crime. The complex they lived in had little or no security measures, although there may be cameras. Apparently live security had been discontinued. It appears that gates would not be permitted, as the roads are public roads. I would speculate that Pichosky and Wise were followed home from the supermarket on the morning of the murders. Alternatively, they may have targeted at the Walmart the night before, followed home, and then observed until the perpetrators felt the time was right.

The Macy’s bag may have been some kind of decoy, with a perpetrator knocking on the door and asking the couple if it was theirs. It may have also been used to conceal a weapon.

The unfortunate thing is that with the amount of time that has elapsed, fewer people will remember who and what they saw. Besides DNA, one of the few useful tools might be a security camera image of the perpetrators’ car. This area would require vehicle access - the perpetrators wouldn’t be on foot.

 

[Warwick1991]

Reading through the articles, I'm not certain that one or both victims went to a supermarket on the morning of the murder. It would seem that Chief Flournoy indicated that the Walmart was the last place they visited, and that they were home after that. Since Walmart has a grocery department, being stalked and followed from the Walmart may be the scenario.

 

[dotr]

Finally, a new and lengthy article! rbbm.
Why did a pair of women murder a GTA snowbird couple at their Florida condo?
March 27, 2021

''Plenty of information has been gathered about the killers who bound and asphyxiated GTA retirees David (Donny) Pichosky and Rochelle Wise in their winter home in a quiet condo complex in Hallandale Beach, Fla.

Despite all of it, the January 2013 murder remains unsolved.

After studying surveillance video and crime scene DNA, Broward County investigators announced that there were at least two killers and that they were female.

It’s a rare thing for women to kill in groups, experts say.

Investigators also announced that they have concluded that the killers didn’t know their victims before they killed them.

It’s an extremely rare thing for female killers to work in a group to murder total strangers, experts say.

“I have never seen a predatory female killer,” said Dr. C.M. Milroy, a professor at the University of Ottawa and director of the Eastern Ontario Forensic Pathology''

 

[Warwick1991]

Finally, a new and lengthy article! rbbm.
Why did a pair of women murder a GTA snowbird couple at their Florida condo?
March 27, 2021

''Plenty of information has been gathered about the killers who bound and asphyxiated GTA retirees David (Donny) Pichosky and Rochelle Wise in their winter home in a quiet condo complex in Hallandale Beach, Fla.

Despite all of it, the January 2013 murder remains unsolved.

After studying surveillance video and crime scene DNA, Broward County investigators announced that there were at least two killers and that they were female.

It’s a rare thing for women to kill in groups, experts say.

Investigators also announced that they have concluded that the killers didn’t know their victims before they killed them.

It’s an extremely rare thing for female killers to work in a group to murder total strangers, experts say.

“I have never seen a predatory female killer,” said Dr. C.M. Milroy, a professor at the University of Ottawa and director of the Eastern Ontario Forensic Pathology''

Here’s an article about female predators: Female Predators

I think that societal changes mean that more women will have the opportunity to live a life of crime. It is important not to have blinders on when investigating crimes. Statistically, female killers may be the exception, but profiling is based on historical data and can mislead.

 

[dotr]

Early on a cctv video was released showing the couple shopping at Walmart, having trouble locating it again- will keep looking for it..
LE wondered if this was motivated by a desperate need for drugs, but wondering now if it was for gambling or something completely different.... but what?
speculation, imo.
rbbm.
Why did a pair of women murder a GTA snowbird couple at their Florida condo?
''Homicide investigators are often aided by “victimology,” which studies the relationships between victims and offenders, Mendelson said.

When murders are stranger on stranger, things get particularly difficult and cases often go cold.

By all accounts, Pichosky and Wise led quiet, exemplary lives and were enjoying their retirement.

They took daily 90-minute morning walks and enjoyed lunch and dinner with friends.

They seldom were out later than 9 p.m.

They both had a son and daughter, which 10 grandchildren combined.

They had been married four years.

They were active in their synagogues.

A team of three investigators travelled to Toronto for five days shortly after the murders to question the couple’s family, friends, business associates and acquaintances. It was after that trip that police announced that they thought the couple were killed by strangers.

It’s not clear how the killers crossed paths with the GTA couple.''

''Wise shopped at a nearby Walmart on the evening of Jan. 8 and the couple chatted online with family members on Jan. 9.''

 

[Satchie]

Here’s an article about female predators: Female Predators

I think that societal changes mean that more women will have the opportunity to live a life of crime. It is important not to have blinders on when investigating crimes. Statistically, female killers may be the exception, but profiling is based on historical data and can mislead.

I agree, however I think that Psychology Today article is mixing up a wide variety of motives in killings by women, and calling them all predatory.

I don't think psychological disturbance, or murdering one's spouse or other members of a known community, or killing in order to improve one's circumstances, are what is meant by predatory, in this context.

In this case I think the forensics prof means intentionally targeting strangers for thrill killing, not for money or goods (though that can be a nice souvenir), not out of intense emotions, not to gain control over life circumstances, but just for the pleasure of planning it, carrying it out, and remembering it afterwards.

We don't know anything about what happened to the couple after they were restrained.

JMO, but I think not all crime is similar, Lizzie Borden may have killed her parents over various family disputes, but she didn't roam the town with her axe, targeting strangers.

 

[PayrollNerd]

I skimmed thru this thread and the only motive I don't see mentioned is a possible currency exchange visit. Upon arrival from Canada, would they have had enough Canadian money to warrant an exchange to US monies? Could they have been followed from there? That type place would have surveillance of course and there could be regular look outs at those places.

 

[Satchie]

I skimmed thru this thread and the only motive I don't see mentioned is a possible currency exchange visit. Upon arrival from Canada, would they have had enough Canadian money to warrant an exchange to US monies? Could they have been followed from there? That type place would have surveillance of course and there could be regular look outs at those places.

I doubt Cdn visitors or snowbirds use currency exchanges anymore, you get a better exchange rate from your bank, withdrawing in US dollars using an ATM.

 

[Satchie]

snipped for focus: I do not think that Rochelle’s diamond ring was the target or motivation. The reason is that it is very difficult to assess either the value of or authenticity of a gemstone unless it can be examined under a loupe. Carats and quality would not be easily ascertained by a predator who identified the couple as targets. The value of the ring wouldn’t be apparent to the thieves until they tried to pawn it IMOP, and even if they pawned it they might never realize its value.

My thought is that a pair of predators were somehow drawn to the couple in Wal-Mart, and followed over a period of time. My theory is that the predators may have seen the couple with a substantial amount of cash, which the Pichoskys may have had with them. As a Canadians, perhaps they didn’t have a US bank account, and used a lot of cash instead of credit cards or checks that might have had currency exchange fees. Just my theory.

These deaths were so needless and evil. I hope the perpetrators will eventually be caught. I have a Canadian relatives who vacation here, and I find the crime haunting and very disturbing.

That makes sense, however I notice from the few photos we have, Rochelle looks to be a very elegant, classy dresser with a love of jewellry. If the diamonds were seen on her ring finger, in particular, IMO one would assume it was the real deal, that she wouldn't be wearing a fake or cheap diamond engagement ring.


What is noticeable is, the ring has multiple large stones in a simple setting that emphasises the stones, no fancy design to cover up small stones. Since one large diamond in a ring costs a few thousand, one doesn't have to know much about diamonds to know that 5 would be worth 5 times as much. And perhaps these perps knew about diamonds, and how to turn them into cash...

Another thought I had was perhaps these perps knew something about this condo development, and particularly how to (mostly) get around undetected. I think perhaps the woman walking to the back was checking to ensure no one was out back who might hear or see anything.

 

[dotr]

Florida murders: Missing wedding ring suggests robbery in killings of Toronto couple, police say
rbbm. April 4 2013
''David “Donny” Pichosky, 71, and Rochelle Wise, 66, were found dead in their Hallandale Beach winter home on Jan. 10. Police say the couple, prominent figures in Toronto’s Jewish community, died of asphyxiation.

Investigators are combing through more than 100 pieces of evidence related to the case and have noticed that Rochelle Wise’s wedding band is missing, Hallandale Beach police said Thursday.

The $16,000 platinum ring has five half-carat white diamonds, framed in a half-moon shape. It may also have the letters “DCC” engraved inside.

“It’s been the first significant item of value that has come up missing,” Hallandale Beach police Capt. Sonia Quinones told the Sun-Sentinel newspaper.

Police are asking pawn shop owners and jewelry exchange businesses to check their inventories to see if there’s a ring that matches the description.''

 

[Warwick1991]

Not a word on this from local LE... The perps have to be somewhere.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Hey dotr, I started on page one and breezed through this thread to bring myself back up to date on the facts we have.

As you and I noticed this case has a number of similarities with evidence found with the Sherman case.

Yes the families were both part of the Jewish community, well-respected seniors, and knew one another as well, enough that the daughter of this case warned the Sherman daughter to get her own investigators on the case asap, so they would find their killer(s) and not be in the same situation as DP & RW. ( looking for the star article that stated this and it is no longer accessible, 404 error the article has been archived).

Very sad and from the get-go locals reporting here that they felt a cover-up and lack of information shared with the public. The Shermans was confused as to what had actually happened at all.

RE DP & RW

The female DNA, could they be a transgender and physically look male?

Where did they get DNA evidence from? Did perps leave hair, saliva/spit, blood, or skin cells?

Some reports they were bludgeoned, with what? did perps bring weapons or use household items to harm or overpower them?

The POI that was walking between buildings, was this the only person caught on any cameras in the area from Jan 8 - 10? ( now similar to Shermans case and video of unknown suspect)

If involved why would they leave something behind the building/fence, it would have DNA on it?

Why leave a shopping bag at the door? When the newspaper was delivered was the Macy bag on the doorstep? Did a neighbor knock, get no answer and leave that bag and it is a red herring?

The local police say that the last know outing was the day before they were killed, on that day they only spoke to family on facetime - did they go for the normal daily 90 minutes walk that morning? an early post here mentions this as a daily routine, what time in the am did they normally go for that walk.

I noticed that 80% maybe 90% of the media reports dig in and are mostly about RW, her history, and not much about DP. Yet the locals seem to give reports about DP and not as much about RW? Did DP own this condo before he married RW? again in an early post here it stated that DP had been spending winters there for many years, more than the 4 they had been married to, this just could be because they knew him better.

So odd how some cases we read about make you think of other cases. With the DP/RW murders and the BS/HS murders, both well-known and respected influential Jewish families, both live in the same very well-off neighborhood and spent time with the same peers, both have Florida connections, both asphyxiated together in their home, no motive confirmed. Differences are there too, not the same murder scenes, we seem to have more info about the BS/HS scene, but both seem to have left "tell" signs that the job was done. Odd that the Florida case has all of this DNA and we have NO DNA reports from the Sherman home.