FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #13 *1 guilty*

[FreddyG]

I don't know but I sure hope one of our lawyer members signs on to give some ideas.

Am I right in thinking that the only way CA would take a deal is: 1) to shorten his own sentence, which I don't see GC agreeing to; or 2) to lessen exposure for his parents and sister-princess?

But I don't see GC letting Donna, Harv & Princessa all just off the hook in exchange for Charlie's plea. Maybe it would be for probation. That would not be justice IMO. I would rather see GC go to trial and fight for prison time for Donna at least.

Hmmm.

I'm not a crim law specialist, but I've never heard of someone flipping in exchange for leniency for someone else. The idea of a flip is that by helping law enforcement you earn a favor and/or present yourself as someone who has atoned in part for their wrong, in either or both case justifying a sentence reduction. It's not like a contract where you can bargain for anything you want. Hence I think (1) above is plausible, (2) would be unavailable.

If Charlie flips that would most likely be his implicating at least DA, and possibly HA and WA as well. Who knows what goes in the mind of a dude like that, having lived a selfish hedonistic life and now rotting in jail. He could decide to sell out his family to get back out there banging underage girls in foreign countries as soon as possible. Then again, I figured for sure KM would flip but nope, so it's very hard to predict.

 

[vislaw]

A big problem for Charlie flipping is the fact that he is largely the mastermind based on testimony and evidence to date. I don't believe the State can recommend much of a discount other than possibly removing the death penalty. He's 45 and I believe his ego and his attorneys will convince him that he has a plausible chance for a hung jury and an outside chance at acquittal. I believe the best he could achieve through a deal would see him stuck in prison until he is an old man --- a thought that must be terrifying to him and probably reason enough to roll the dice.

 

[Bongo]

A big problem for Charlie flipping is the fact that he is largely the mastermind based on testimony and evidence to date. I don't believe the State can recommend much of a discount other than possibly removing the death penalty. He's 45 and I believe his ego and his attorneys will convince him that he has a plausible chance for a hung jury and an outside chance at acquittal. I believe the best he could achieve through a deal would see him stuck in prison until he is an old man --- a thought that must be terrifying to him and probably reason enough to roll the dice.

Yes and I really don't think that a Tallahassee jury will think much of slick Charlie.

 

[Bongo]

I'm not a crim law specialist, but I've never heard of someone flipping in exchange for leniency for someone else. The idea of a flip is that by helping law enforcement you earn a favor and/or present yourself as someone who has atoned in part for their wrong, in either or both case justifying a sentence reduction. It's not like a contract where you can bargain for anything you want. Hence I think (1) above is plausible, (2) would be unavailable.

If Charlie flips that would most likely be his implicating at least DA, and possibly HA and WA as well. Who knows what goes in the mind of a dude like that, having lived a selfish hedonistic life and now rotting in jail. He could decide to sell out his family to get back out there banging underage girls in foreign countries as soon as possible. Then again, I figured for sure KM would flip but nope, so it's very hard to predict.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Perhaps flipping isn't the right term. How about Charlie says to them - I will plead guilty and we don't have to go to trial on the condition that if charges are pursued against mom, dad, sis, you will not seek prison sentences (probation instead?). Does that sound

 

[jbc]

Yes and I really don't think that a Tallahassee jury will think much of slick Charlie.

I think this is correct, and I have tried to relate this to members from other countries. Although I am not familiar with the panhandle of Florida, I have traveled through the deep South where bias against outsiders is palpable (and sometimes deadly - trust me, I know). Fundamental Christianity is the dominant religious culture in Tallahassee and I don't see a jury pool from there viewing Miami Jews very understandingly. I know it's an oxymoron, but it's a Tribe, as was discussed for MOT. Charlie and his family will be viewed very suspiciously by a Tallahassee jury.

 

[Bongo]

I think this is correct, and I have tried to relate this to members from other countries. Although I am not familiar with the panhandle of Florida, I have traveled through the deep South where bias against outsiders is palpable (and sometimes deadly - trust me, I know). Fundamental Christianity is the dominant religious culture in Tallahassee and I don't see a jury pool from there viewing Miami Jews very understandingly. I know it's an oxymoron, but it's a Tribe, as was discussed for MOT. Charlie and his family will be viewed very suspiciously by a Tallahassee jury.

I don't think it would have to do with him being Jewish (but sure there might be some anti-semites in the pool) as much as just his arrogant posturing and flaunting privilege. The dude is off in so many ways. I can assure you that if any of my friends met him in a bar he would be the subject of ridicule, Ferrari and all. He's just not gonna be their cup of tea in Tally.

 

[jbc]

I don't think it would have to do with him being Jewish...

I do. It's not about blatant antisemitism. It's an implicit tribal thing.
I agree it won't be the only thing though.
But when Mamma A and Harvey get on the stand, it's gonna be lights out for them - they have very many more Jewish affectations than Charlie. The average work-a-day, church-going, God-fearing Tallahassee citizen will see this first.

 

[yazoost]

Much like Wendi did, you guys are grossly exaggerating the nature of Tallahassee. We have two major universities and the state government. The county and city reliably vote Democrat. This town is not as backwoods as the rest of the panhandle.

 

[justbeachy]

Much like Wendi did, you guys are grossly exaggerating the nature of Tallahassee. We have two major universities and the state government. The county and city reliably vote Democrat. This town is not as backwoods as the rest of the panhandle.

Thank you for saying this. I lived in Tallahassee for many years and I certainly would not describe it in the way I have seen some describe it. I agree with your description completely.

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Perhaps flipping isn't the right term. How about Charlie says to them - I will plead guilty and we don't have to go to trial on the condition that if charges are pursued against mom, dad, sis, you will not seek prison sentences (probation instead?). Does that sound

I dunno if Charlie has anything to bargain with based on Florida Statute for felony murder.

Take note that just like KM and SG, CA has also been charged with murder as if each-- including CA, pulled the trigger that killed Dan Markel.

IMO, I think mom, Donna Adelson could possibly face the same charges under the same statute.

Could CA plead guilty to help reduce charges against DA? Probably not and certainly not for a promise to influence her sentence.

But agreeing to testify against DA might help reduce his charges to 2nd-degree murder (as it did for Rivera) but I don't see that ever happening where CA testifies against any family member and don't think the DA ever considered offering reduced charges to him.

This kind of bargaining when an entire family is complicit reminds me of the currently ongoing 2016 Ohio massacre trial where 8 members of the Rhoden family were allegedly killed by the Wagners. One brother confessed and agreed to testify against his mom, dad, and brother at trial with the promise the DA would not seek/recommend the death penalty against his family members.

It's my understanding that the cooperating family member here (Jake) will not be sentenced to death but faces several life sentences, and his deal can't be used in the sentencing of others convicted of murder (where an OH trial Judge decides on death or life in prison) if convicted. MOO

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/17/us/ohio-rhoden-family-murder-trial.html

 

[katiecoolady]

I'm half-way through Ruth Markel's book and some thoughts.

I didn't know that she was the person who informed Wendi of the first arrest (Garcia). And how she couldn't reach her (no surprise) but how Wendi frantically called her back seeking details.

Also, she really describes how barren Wendi's house was at the gathering there. She had already mentioned that Wendi was not the best housekeeper (also no surprise--she's way too much of a child herself) so the fact no toys etc were around was jarring.

Then she realized it was because they were all packed up to move the next day. It makes me wonder if any telltale signs of planning this move have been discovered that we don't know about. Like a moving truck rented. Donna is a planner and meticulous, but not a good criminal. And those details wouldn't really be pertinent to any of the other prior trials, right?

Thoughts?

 

[Marysmith]

I'm half-way through Ruth Markel's book and some thoughts.

I didn't know that she was the person who informed Wendi of the first arrest (Garcia). And how she couldn't reach her (no surprise) but how Wendi frantically called her back seeking details.

Also, she really describes how barren Wendi's house was at the gathering there. She had already mentioned that Wendi was not the best housekeeper (also no surprise--she's way too much of a child herself) so the fact no toys etc were around was jarring.

Then she realized it was because they were all packed up to move the next day. It makes me wonder if any telltale signs of planning this move have been discovered that we don't know about. Like a moving truck rented. Donna is a planner and meticulous, but not a good criminal. And those details wouldn't really be pertinent to any of the other prior trials, right?

Thoughts?

Hmmm… that is a good thought for when WA is finally arrested. She has to be y’all, IMO.

 

[Seattle1]

I'm half-way through Ruth Markel's book and some thoughts.

I didn't know that she was the person who informed Wendi of the first arrest (Garcia). And how she couldn't reach her (no surprise) but how Wendi frantically called her back seeking details.

Also, she really describes how barren Wendi's house was at the gathering there. She had already mentioned that Wendi was not the best housekeeper (also no surprise--she's way too much of a child herself) so the fact no toys etc were around was jarring.

Then she realized it was because they were all packed up to move the next day. It makes me wonder if any telltale signs of planning this move have been discovered that we don't know about. Like a moving truck rented. Donna is a planner and meticulous, but not a good criminal. And those details wouldn't really be pertinent to any of the other prior trials, right?

Thoughts?

IMO, WA was packed and ready to leave Tallahassee ASAP on the guise that the father of her children was attacked and left for dead, and her children could be at risk.

We also know that up until this time, the only thing keeping WA and the children in Tallahassee was Dan (and a court order). MOO

 

[katiecoolady]

IMO, WA was packed and ready to leave Tallahassee ASAP on the guise that the father of her children was attacked and left for dead, and her children could be at risk.

We also know that up until this time, the only thing keeping WA and the children in Tallahassee was Dan (and a court order). MOO

Yes it makes sense if she only began that process after he was killed. If there is anything though that shows they were making those plans before the killing, that would be very significant. It was so close. I mean it's not that easy to just up and leave your home and relocate within days, with 2 small children. Not just the leaving, but the arriving on the other end. I'm curious to know if any wheels were put in motion before the date of his murder, even research.

 

[katiecoolady]

I just finished Ruth Markel's book. Whew.

I can say this, as a murder survivor dealing with the death penalty for over 30 years, I was relieved to read she was relieved that they ordered LWOP for Garcia. The DP is truly the worst for families. The amount of money and emphasis spent on the killers and amount of dragging back to court for something like a 3% chance they will ever receive their sentence, is brutal. I'm not opposed to the DP on principal, but I am on what it's done to my family and other victims' families.

I'd love to tell Ruth that just ONE of one of my sister's killers' appeals cost taxpayers over 10 million dollars. That just one appeal in over 30 years of dealing with this, getting dragged back to court, my home being intruded upon, on and on. I won't go on and on, but these killers getting LWOP is the closest to locked up with the key thrown away while the DR inmates get the best of the best legal assistance at tax payer expense and almost never are executed.

Oh and one more thing. Wendi Adelson is even more of a monster than I believed prior to reading this book. Her reckoning will come, I feel certain, one way or the other.

 

[Marysmith]

I just finished Ruth Markel's book. Whew.

I can say this, as a murder survivor dealing with the death penalty for over 30 years, I was relieved to read she was relieved that they ordered LWOP for Garcia. The DP is truly the worst for families. The amount of money and emphasis spent on the killers and amount of dragging back to court for something like a 3% chance they will ever receive their sentence, is brutal. I'm not opposed to the DP on principal, but I am on what it's done to my family and other victims' families.

I'd love to tell Ruth that just ONE of one of my sister's killers' appeals cost taxpayers over 10 million dollars. That just one appeal in over 30 years of dealing with this, getting dragged back to court, my home being intruded upon, on and on. I won't go on and on, but these killers getting LWOP is the closest to locked up with the key thrown away while the DR inmates get the best of the best legal assistance at tax payer expense and almost never are executed.

Oh and one more thing. Wendi Adelson is even more of a monster than I believed prior to reading this book. Her reckoning will come, I feel certain, one way or the other.

Thank you for your synopsis! I want to read this even more now.
I’m so, so sorry for what you and your sister’s loved ones have gone through.

 

[Seattle1]

Yes it makes sense if she only began that process after he was killed. If there is anything though that shows they were making those plans before the killing, that would be very significant. It was so close. I mean it's not that easy to just up and leave your home and relocate within days, with 2 small children. Not just the leaving, but the arriving on the other end. I'm curious to know if any wheels were put in motion before the date of his murder, even research.

Well, considering WA managed to pack up and move out of the marital home seemingly overnight -- serving Dan with divorce papers, I don't doubt WA capable of this!

Adelson divorced Markel by moving out of the house and leaving divorce papers on the bed while Markel was on a business trip.

Divorce causes Archives - RONALD KAUFFMAN

www.rhkauffman.com

 

[katiecoolady]

Well, considering WA managed to pack up and move out of the marital home seemingly overnight -- serving Dan with divorce papers, I don't doubt WA capable of this!

Adelson divorced Markel by moving out of the house and leaving divorce papers on the bed while Markel was on a business trip.

Divorce causes Archives - RONALD KAUFFMAN

www.rhkauffman.com

Yes, but she had weeks, if not months of planning before she did this. She was well in to her plan weeks before when she announced it to friends on a vacation she took with Dan.

I have no doubt that that project was aided and abetted by her mother. It's the PLANNING part of this that I'm curious about--not just its execution. She did not leave Dan with one day of planning it--she had the entire thing orchestrated from clearing out the safety deposit box weeks before, to securing her own housing to meeting with a lawyer and drawing up the paperwork to clearing out half the bank accounts all without his knowledge. She had plenty of time to PLAN this. Including the swift orchestration of it planned for when he would be out of town. I wonder how far in advance she had ordered those movers. Which is the kind of thing I'm wondering now...

I believe she put similar planning in to this move across the State beyond two or three days. But the question is, were any breadcrumbs left behind of her research or the plan she had put in motion knowing he would be killed, thus releasing her to execute it?

 

[rgrene]

I'm half-way through Ruth Markel's book and some thoughts.

I didn't know that she was the person who informed Wendi of the first arrest (Garcia). And how she couldn't reach her (no surprise) but how Wendi frantically called her back seeking details.

Also, she really describes how barren Wendi's house was at the gathering there. She had already mentioned that Wendi was not the best housekeeper (also no surprise--she's way too much of a child herself) so the fact no toys etc were around was jarring.

Then she realized it was because they were all packed up to move the next day. It makes me wonder if any telltale signs of planning this move have been discovered that we don't know about. Like a moving truck rented. Donna is a planner and meticulous, but not a good criminal. And those details wouldn't really be pertinent to any of the other prior trials, right?

Thoughts?

Wendy's reaction to the Garcia news is mind blowing. She then knew the flood gates were opening. If SG had used a false identity renting the Prius, the case most likely would have been solved. Simple as that.

 

[rgrene]

Wendy's reaction to the Garcia news is mind blowing. She then knew the flood gates were opening. If SG had used a false identity renting the Prius, the case most likely would have been solved. Simple as that.

*not