FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #13 *1 guilty*

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Me too!! But mine will be a gin and tonic!
KM gambled and lost - big time. I have zero empathy for her as she clearly had none for Dan.
I just hope so much that Wendi and Donna get arrested over this and convicted. I do believe Wendi knew the entire time and was involved in the planning.
The Adelson’s must be having a rough night!!
Me too! I’m just learning about the proffer this evening as I settle down to read on the inter webs. It popped up on my Google news feed minutes ago! OH MY MY !!!! This brings me hope that the entire Adelson family will be charged! Especially Donna and Wendi! I’m up to make an oatmeal cookie cocktail to toast to this awesome news! I’m praying KM has some solid And trustworthy information to put everyone behind bars! May Dan’s family finally have complete justice!!
 
IMO - One or all of these things happened -

1. KM found Jesus and decided to sing rather than die in prison.
2. KM dumped TK, CD because of their conflict of interest.
3. Money dried up from the Paymasters.
4. TK, CD dumped KM because she decided to sing against their Paymasters.
 
If KM can provide some hard proof of family involvement in the murder plot then this is what will seal the fate of the whole lot of them. Not just her tainted testimony. I wonder if she was cunning enough to have held on to something incriminating that leaves no doubt as to their guilt. I know, I'm reaching but maybe KM is smarter than she appears.....
 
Absolutely wild. Katie could have been free in 2019 at age 34 to raise her kids if she just told the truth. Now, she's left trying to bargain her way into some kind of chance at parole by age 70 or 75. That is some real fine lawyering by Tara Kawass - I hope they make her give her award back and then she spends the rest of her career doing wills and real estate closings in an office next to a muffler shop.

There is nothing bad that can possibly come from this. Absolute worst case is that we get Katies story and none of it is ever sees the inside a courtroom because it's tainted. Best case is that she has dirt on Wendi, Donna and Harvey and it leads to their arrests and she has other corroborating evidence or new witnesses/lines of investigation.

Interesting that Kawass is still her attorney? I suspect thats one of the reasons why they are making her take a shabby bus ride up to Leon County. There is definitely a lack of urgency from the State here. I am not sure if its because they aren't very optimistic that Katie will give them anything new or if its a little payback for forcing them through 2 trials and Kawass and Decoste's unethical and slimey treatment of Cappleman and the State Attorney for the past several years.
 
Absolutely wild. Katie could have been free in 2019 at age 34 to raise her kids if she just told the truth. Now, she's left trying to bargain her way into some kind of chance at parole by age 70 or 75. That is some real fine lawyering by Tara Kawass - I hope they make her give her award back and then she spends the rest of her career doing wills and real estate closings in an office next to a muffler shop.

There is nothing bad that can possibly come from this. Absolute worst case is that we get Katies story and none of it is ever sees the inside a courtroom because it's tainted. Best case is that she has dirt on Wendi, Donna and Harvey and it leads to their arrests and she has other corroborating evidence or new witnesses/lines of investigation.

Interesting that Kawass is still her attorney? I suspect thats one of the reasons why they are making her take a shabby bus ride up to Leon County. There is definitely a lack of urgency from the State here. I am not sure if its because they aren't very optimistic that Katie will give them anything new or if its a little payback for forcing them through 2 trials and Kawass and Decoste's unethical and slimey treatment of Cappleman and the State Attorney for the past several years.

Per Mentour Lawyer - KM might be going Pro Se per the latest filing. No indication of TK or CD or any other Attorneys.
 
Let's not forget that Rivera had one small detail that proved his credibility--he knew about that gun shot to the floor of the rental car that had not been released. There could be one small detail that has never come out (yet) that Katie knows about that can establish her credibility.

IF they can somehow substantiate that Wendi was the one who verified the murder and Katie connects those dots to her own words "I know", that would be huge.
 
I am quite confident that the prosecution has an understanding of what Katie is going to say in this Proffer. The outcome of this Proffer transaction, if successful, will result in both sides receiving something of value and, as such, neither side is going to want to proceed without some assurance that Proffer will be sufficient to achieve the desired result. Typically, defense counsel will approach the prosecution first by saying that the defendant might be willing to cooperate in exchange for either a reduced sentence or some sort of accommodation in her incarceration (perhaps a different prison or one with better food and amenities).

Experienced lawyers are well versed in this dance whereby they never promise anything definite while, at the same time, making very clear what they are willing to do. For us to get to this stage, Cappleman almost certainly made it clear to Kawass and crew what she would be willing to do if Katie could come through with credible and usable evidence/information. This would result in Katie's attorneys providing a hypothetical example of the information she "might" be willing to provide in order to assure themselves that it would satisfy the State. For instance, Kawass might have said, "What if Katie has a family member who will corroborate Wendi's involvement?" The defense is at a disadvantage now with Katie already sentenced, so it isn't in their interest to hold back or play coy. They will lay out the most shiny object possible (always as a hypothetical) in order to see if the prosecution is interested and willing to deal.

Concomitantly, the prosecutor will also always speak in hypotheticals, such as "I might be willing to reduce life without parole to 50 years." For the judge to enter an order setting up a formal Proffer means that both sides haven't formally committed to anything, but they understand precisely what the other is offering and the formal Proffer will be taken under oath. So, there almost certainly isn't any big mystery on the part of the prosecution as to what Katie is going to say. They know generally what she is claiming and the Proffer is the final step whereby the defendant is deposed and questioned under oath as to the material issues. Rest assured there have been MANY discussions between counsel over the past months in order to arrive at this juncture.

A very interesting element to this is the almost universal requirement that the defendant agrees to testify truthfully in response to ANY questions asked. If the defendant lies or refuses to answer a question, the deal can be rescinded by the prosecution. This is similar to what is occurring with Alan Weisselburg who is testifying against the Trump Organization right now. He pled guilty and the State agreed to reduce his sentence substantially -- but only if he testified truthfully and answered any question truthfully at trial. He doesn't want to be testifying, but he is having to give uncomfortable answers because failing to do so would see his cushy sentence jacked up to 20 years or so.

Katie and her counsel know what the State is willing to do and she obviously wants it badly. To get it will require her providing the information her counsel "suggested" she would and also she will have to answer any questions the prosecution has. I expect Georgia to inquire widely on issues that include who paid for the defense (unless Kawass struck a deal ahead of time that the State will not inquire into that matter).

One final note regarding the speculation that Katie might be going pro se now. I would bet my house this is not the case. I cannot imagine the judge would permit a defendant to make a proffer without counsel and I cannot imagine Georgia would be willing to negotiate a proffer with an unrepresented defendant. I'm quite confident Katie has attorneys and my money would be on Kawass, if only so she can monitor and attempt to control the narrative. After all, she knows that if this goes through the press will be hounding her as to why she didn't encourage Katie to strike a deal years ago. There are obviously huge questions about how Katie was represented and I suspect Kawass and possibly DeCoste are going to represent Katie now to protect themselves to whatever extent they can.
 
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First time posting but long-time site reader.

It is disbarment time if a defense attorney allows a client to testify to facts the attorney knows are false (see Georgia Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 3.3). This may be the motive for Kawass to control the narrative by continuing to represent Katie.
 
I am quite confident that the prosecution has an understanding of what Katie is going to say in this Proffer. The outcome of this Proffer transaction, if successful, will result in both sides receiving something of value and, as such, neither side is going to want to proceed without some assurance that Proffer will be sufficient to achieve the desired result. Typically, defense counsel will approach the prosecution first by saying that the defendant might be willing to cooperate in exchange for either a reduced sentence or some sort of accommodation in her incarceration (perhaps a different prison or one with better food and amenities).

Experienced lawyers are well versed in this dance whereby they never promise anything definite while, at the same time, making very clear what they are willing to do. For us to get to this stage, Cappleman almost certainly made it clear to Kawass and crew what she would be willing to do if Katie could come through with credible and usable evidence/information. This would result in Katie's attorneys providing a hypothetical example of the information she "might" be willing to provide in order to assure themselves that it would satisfy the State. For instance, Kawass might have said, "What if Katie has a family member who will corroborate Wendi's involvement?" The defense is at a disadvantage now with Katie already sentenced, so it isn't in their interest to hold back or play coy. They will lay out the most shiny object possible (always as a hypothetical) in order to see if the prosecution is interested and willing to deal.

Concomitantly, the prosecutor will also always speak in hypotheticals, such as "I might be willing to reduce life without parole to 50 years." For the judge to enter an order setting up a formal Proffer means that both sides haven't formally committed to anything, but they understand precisely what the other is offering and the formal Proffer will be taken under oath. So, there almost certainly isn't any big mystery on the part of the prosecution as to what Katie is going to say. They know generally what she is claiming and the Proffer is the final step whereby the defendant is deposed and questioned under oath as to the material issues. Rest assured there have been MANY discussions between counsel over the past months in order to arrive at this juncture.

A very interesting element to this is the almost universal requirement that the defendant agrees to testify truthfully in response to ANY questions asked. If the defendant lies or refuses to answer a question, the deal can be rescinded by the prosecution. This is similar to what is occurring with Alan Weisselburg who is testifying against the Trump Organization right now. He pled guilty and the State agreed to reduce his sentence substantially -- but only if he testified truthfully and answered any question truthfully at trial. He doesn't want to be testifying, but he is having to give uncomfortable answers because failing to do so would see his cushy sentence jacked up to 20 years or so.

Katie and her counsel know what the State is willing to do and she obviously wants it badly. To get it will require her providing the information her counsel "suggested" she would and also she will have to answer any questions the prosecution has. I expect Georgia to inquire widely on issues that include who paid for the defense (unless Kawass struck a deal ahead of time that the State will not inquire into that matter).

One final note regarding the speculation that Katie might be going pro se now. I would bet my house this is not the case. I cannot imagine the judge would permit a defendant to make a proffer without counsel and I cannot imagine Georgia would be willing to negotiate a proffer with an unrepresented defendant. I'm quite confident Katie has attorneys and my money would be on Kawass, if only so she can monitor and attempt to control the narrative. After all, she knows that if this goes through the press will be hounding her as to why she didn't encourage Katie to strike a deal years ago. There are obviously huge questions about how Katie was represented and I suspect Kawass and possibly DeCoste are going to represent Katie now to protect themselves to whatever extent they can.

So interesting--I so appreciate your perspective and expertise.

Any thoughts on Katie having a public defender who was recused due to conflict of interest before this proffer?
 
First time posting but long-time site reader.

It is disbarment time if a defense attorney allows a client to testify to facts the attorney knows are false (see Georgia Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 3.3). This may be the motive for Kawass to control the narrative by continuing to represent Katie.
Thank you for your post and welcome to Websleuths!!
 
So interesting--I so appreciate your perspective and expertise.

Any thoughts on Katie having a public defender who was recused due to conflict of interest before this proffer?
My understanding is the conflict related to the fact that one or more of the counsel studied under Professor Markel. I'm guessing one or more of the attorneys were close friends with Dan or his family. This is rather unusual and wouldn't ordinarily cause a PD to decline representation, but given how heinous the crime was and how despicable Katie's behavior has been, I can see that the office wouldn't be looking forward to representing her. It is a testament to how radioactive Katie and the Adelsons are. I didn't hear who was appointed to represent her, but certainly the court has the ability to order any number of attorneys to take the case.
 
Wow! Major development. Just learned about this when some video popped up on my YouTube feed. I don’t believe that Kawass and DaCoste discouraged KM from turning state’s evidence/taking a deal from the get go. I think it was her own narcissistic delusions that prevented her from copping to this. Now that her kids are estranging from her and she’s facing a life sentence, the delusion is fading!

My speculation is that KM will offer up 1 or more Adelson family member besides Charlie. I can’t imagine they’d give her much for just testifying against Charlie. Maybe a diff prison but not much reduction in time for just giving up Charlie - that’s not much leverage for her since they were prepared to go forward on him w/o her.
 
Wow! Major development. Just learned about this when some video popped up on my YouTube feed. I don’t believe that Kawass and DaCoste discouraged KM from turning state’s evidence/taking a deal from the get go. I think it was her own narcissistic delusions that prevented her from copping to this. Now that her kids are estranging from her and she’s facing a life sentence, the delusion is fading!

My speculation is that KM will offer up 1 or more Adelson family member besides Charlie. I can’t imagine they’d give her much for just testifying against Charlie. Maybe a diff prison but not much reduction in time for just giving up Charlie - that’s not much leverage for her since they were prepared to go forward on him w/o her.
This is a rather unusual situation in which a defendant took the stand (twice) to give testimony that essentially constitutes perjury if she now cooperates. Ordinarily, this would so damage a defendant's credibility that her testimony would be of little value (the trusty "are you lying now or were you lying then" cross examination is devastating). However, this is an unusual case where there doesn't seem to be ANY other credible theory for the murder. In most cases there are stray claims that a drug deal went wrong (see Ron Goldman / Nicole Brown Simpson murders) or a burglary gone wrong etc. In this case we have convicted hit men in a crime where the Adelsons have the obvious motive and the defense really is going to have to stretch to offer any sort of alternative theory. Given how powerful the circumstantial evidence is, I can see where it might be quite valuable to have Katie testify even if she doesn't have anything new to add other than "yep, we all did it and we did it for the Adelsons." Even though the jury would obviously look at her with contempt, hearing such testimony out of her mouth would be dramatic and powerful.

When I used to practice as a trial lawyer we were always mindful that our primary role in court was to be a storyteller. The jury has to be engaged and persuaded; and calling a witness like Katie is almost a no-risk proposition given the lack of a credible alternative theory in the case. Indeed, unlike Luis Rivera, Katie was actually "in the room where it happened" and will be able to describe chilling details that we've never heard. Sure, the defense will savage her and destroy her on cross, but you can't really get hurt falling out a first floor window. I think Georgia and crew are planning chess movies using Katie to tell the story of what happened here and they really don't need to worry about her credibility because Charlie sure isn't going to take the stand and her testimony will put enormous pressure on the defense.
 
As I've posted before -

CA's possible defense -

"I was just joking/venting about killing DM. KM went behind my back and hired someone to do it to ingratiate herself to me! I paid them and played along because of what I thought were gang threats to my life and my family's life."

DA's possible defense -

"I knew nothing. I just went along and did whatever CA told me to do."
 
Thank you for your post and welcome to Websleuths!!
As I've posted before -

CA's possible defense -

"I was just joking/venting about killing DM. KM went behind my back and hired someone to do it to ingratiate herself to me! I paid them and played along because of what I thought were gang threats to my life and my family's life."

DA's possible defense -

"I knew nothing. I just went along and did whatever CA told me to do."
That is probably about the best they would be able to do, but the Dolce Vita recording does an effective job of showing Charlie was the guy making threats — not the other way around. And how does Charlie make such a defense without taking the stand? But I agree they will have to try something like this as a Hail Mary.
 
I relistened to a podcast yesterday which had the entire footage of the 2017 hearing where Kawass is arguing to keep the information about who is paying for Katie's defense "in camera". which the Judge granted.

But one small thing stood out for me in her words "nothing the State has can contradict who is paying our legal fees at this moment".

At this moment.


But how about before that moment? And after that moment?
 
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