GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #20

Status
Not open for further replies.
I keep quoting myself lol smh. But I was just thinking maybe KM said she saw stapled stacks at CA’s house. Did she say the money that was for the “job” was stapled? By the way, such an interesting question cottonweaver!
June Umchinda saw stapled stacks in CA's home.
Yes, both Luis Rivera and Katie M received stapled stacks as their murder payment but IIRC Katie never saw this in his home nor ever saw inside of his safe.

Charlie claimed that stapling was a habit he got into early in his career
'After dental school, Charlie began moonlighting as an itinerant dentist, traveling between various practices, quickly increasing his wealth. He admitted that he preferred to keep his money in cash, and when he’d get to $1,000, he’d staple a stack together — to save, not to spend.' Charlie Adelson trial Day 6, Part 1: Charlie tells his version
 
I keep quoting myself lol smh. But I was just thinking maybe KM said she saw stapled stacks at CA’s house. Did she say the money that was for the “job” was stapled? By the way, such an interesting question cottonweaver!
I believe Rivera is the original source of testimony regarding the fact that the money he got for the murder was stapled.
 
I think only academics and historians call it the Hebrew Bible; this may be because they don’t want to use the term “Old Testament.” (I don’t know why they don’t just refer to the names of the scriptures themselves, such as Torah, or Talmud. It’s like calling the Koran the “Muslim Bible.” But, I digress.). I don’t know any Jewish people who use the term Bible at all. That’s why I was surprised that Donna asked for one, and that’s why I thought it might have been for motives other than religiousness. (My question “who says it was a Jewish one“ was meant to be tongue in cheek). JMO, but the request struck me as odd.

I think only academics and historians call it the Hebrew Bible; this may be because they don’t want to use the term “Old Testament.” (I don’t know why they don’t just refer to the names of the scriptures themselves, such as Torah, or Talmud. It’s like calling the Koran the “Muslim Bible.” But, I digress.). I don’t know any Jewish people who use the term Bible at all. That’s why I was surprised that Donna asked for one, and that’s why I thought it might have been for motives other than religiousness. (My question “who says it was a Jewish one“ was meant to be tongue in cheek). JMO, but the request struck me as odd.
Talmud is commentary on the Old Testment. Tenach is the books beyond the first 5 (Torah),up until Malachi

So The Old Testament consists of the Torah and then the rest.
the entirety is called the Tenach.

It is called “Old Testament” by those who accept the Old and New Testament as the completed word of God=Bible
 
Talmud is commentary on the Old Testment. Tenach is the books beyond the first 5 (Torah),up until Malachi

So The Old Testament consists of the Torah and then the rest.
the entirety is called the Tenach.

It is called “Old Testament” by those who accept the Old and New Testament as the completed word of God=Bible
Makes sense. It’s important to note that Jewish people don’t use the term “Old Testament,” for obvious reasons.
 
Makes sense. It’s important to note that Jewish people don’t use the term “Old Testament,” for obvious reasons.

Agree. And the same reason why "Hebrew Bible" or "Tanakh" is preferred over the term "Jewish Bible."

When people mention the Jewish Bible, they usually refer to the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh. The term "Jewish Bible" is largely not preferred. The Hebrew Bible was originally written in Hebrew, with some small parts written in Aramaic. The main difference between the Torah vs. Tanakh is that the Torah is the first five books of the Hebrew Bible while the Tanakh is the whole Hebrew Bible.

Tanakh vs Torah, Definition, Differences
 
The thing with the meds could just be possibly that the prison doctor doesn’t agree that she needs what her outside doctors might now be saying she needs, or maybe she can’t get the exact brand, or something like that. I think I heard someone on STS saying they might not just give you benzos, for example. Maybe they have a stricter definition of what is medically necessary. It also sounds from the motion like they may have tried to ask her about her medication or give her medication but she refused. I don’t know, but I doubt they deny prisoners access to medically necessary life saving medication.
I volunteered in juvenile and meds could take a while to be medically confirmed and then approved and to get to you . If she gave the CO asking about her meds a bad time, or refused to answer as she said she did, it could take quite a bit longer since she’s refusing to tell them what she’s on. I knew a boy who irked the nurse so she let him wait a month for his psych meds.
 
I volunteered in juvenile and meds could take a while to be medically confirmed and then approved and to get to you . If she gave the CO asking about her meds a bad time, or refused to answer as she said she did, it could take quite a bit longer since she’s refusing to tell them what she’s on. I knew a boy who irked the nurse so she let him wait a month for his psych meds.
I've know people serving jails and DOC and it's no piece of cake interacting at times with the bottom of humanity but I'm also not an advocate of delaying a difficult psych patient his meds. Now library or mail is different.

In this case, I read DA's communication to be one of putting on airs of superiority where DA didn't think the party making inquiry was good enough to talk to her about her medical history and questioned their qualifications in the guise of HIPAA compliance (coming from the Dental office manager :rolleyes:). Seriously, she made it sound like the jail sent the janitor to do her intake but I'm confident whoever approached her, medical intake is in their job description. IMO, DA was being, well, DA.
 
Agree, I don't think that she ( or Harvey) would wash them stapled, sounds counterintuitive. ( I suggested dental autoclave a while ago because you wouldn't need to un-staple the stacks. )

Re weird. I agree but imo they all think that they're criminal masterminds. ( For example, CA telling KM that he used latex gloves and didn't lick the envelope, used a different printer for the hit instructions)

I've no idea if Harvey /Donna could've popped round to the Adelson Institute and autoclaved them but later bagged them before all the steam was evaporated. ( Needs a dentist's input... @minusfour ..)

Or whether either of them just washed them at home. ( But the experiments show that the bills come out and then dry with distinctive creases)

the utility room at, presumably, their 2014 address https://www.realtor.com/realestatea...W-14th-Ct_Coral-Springs_FL_33071_M62848-83695
I never thought that the autoclaving of the notes was realistic, because it sterilizes rather than cleans. (To clean instruments, we scrub them, put them through an ultrasonic batch-to clean them-and then put them in an autoclave to sterilize the clean instruments) Autoclaves work with a combination of heat and pressure to kill microorganisms. To be effective, the steam needs to be able to penetrate or flow around the entire instrument.
Now, clearly I am no criminal mastermind, but I don't think that autoclaving dollar bills would remove fingerprints for instance, although it would kill the bugs on the prints. And the bug killing would only be so if the entire surfaces of the bills were exposed during the cycle, and only if the bill was dry at the end of the cycle. Definitely not stacks of bills, stapled together.

If it was done at a dental clinic, it seems more likely that the bills were washed in the ultrasonic bath. Again, each bill's entire surface would need to be exposed during the wash. I think the cycles take 15 minutes each, it would take ages. At the start of each dental surgery day, a "foil test" is conducted on ultrasonic machines to determine that they are functioning correctly. A square of foil-(kitchen foil)- is put through an ultrasonic cycle. At the end of the cycle the foil should have little holes "punched" in it, from the ultrasonic agitation.

Tomorrow I'm going to put a bank note through the ultrasonic, and then autoclave it and see what happens.
If I was trying to wash a stack of money for criminal purposes, I honestly think I would choose manually wiping them rather than autoclaving or putting them through the ultrasonic. I'd wipe each down with a neutral detergent, wearing gloves. It would take ages, but at least you would get them properly clean-no DNA, no fingerprints. Dental staff are good at cleaning, methodically and quickly.

The money washing is a mystery to me, although it seems likely that it was physically washed.

(Then, after going to all this trouble, they pay KM with a series of clearly dodgy cheques, when she has only ever been treated as a patient at their practice!)
 
If I was trying to wash a stack of money for criminal purposes, I honestly think I would choose manually wiping them rather than autoclaving or putting them through the ultrasonic. I'd wipe each down with a neutral detergent, wearing gloves. It would take ages, but at least you would get them properly clean-no DNA, no fingerprints. Dental staff are good at cleaning, methodically and quickly.
^^rsbm

Lol -- since the first time I read about the "washed money," mold, and SG suggesting KM get out the hairdryer, I can't get past this scene in my head of a kiddie pool and tumble dryer!
Anybody else see "Who needs a King when you've got three Queens?" (Good Girls).

 
Monday, Dec. 11th:
*Arraignment & Motions Hearing (@ 3:30pm ET) - FL - Daniel Eric Markel (41) (shot to death July 18, 2014, Tallahassee) - *Donna Sue Adelson (73) arrested by FBI @ Miami Intl. Airport (11/13/23) on out-of-County warrant from Leon County arrest Warrant #FW231o2353 & indicted (11/15/23) & charged (11/21/23) with 1st degree murder, conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & solicitation to commit 1st degree murder. No bond. Held at Miami-Dade County Jail (Turner Guilford Knight Correctional Center. Leon County has 15 days to extradite from Miami-Dade County. Transferred from Miami-Dade to Leon County on 11/20/23. Held without bond (murder), $25K (conspiracy) & $25K (solicitation) on 11/21/23.
Judge Stephen Everett. Prosecutor Georgia Cappelman. Defense attorney Marissel Descalzo.
Case & Court info from 11/13/23 thru 11/14/23 reference post #197 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-markel-murdered-by-hitmen-18.695886/page -10

11/15/23 Update: Leon County Grand Jury indicts Donna Adelson on charges of 1st degree murder, conspiracy & solicitation for Dan's murder. 11/20/23 Update: Transferred from Miami-Dade County to Leon County. Initial hearing on 11/21/23 @ 8:30am. Judge is Joshua M. Hawkes for first appearance. Thereafter, Judge Stephen Everett is assigned to deal with the case. Marissel Descalzo, Esq. will be of counsel for Donna in this matter.
11/21/23 Update: Adelson stipulates to no bond on murder charge, $25K on Count 2 & $25K on Count 3. She is to have no contact with Markel's family, co-defendants, witnesses that are listed in the probable cause affidavit or unindicted co-conspirators. Arraignment hearing on 12/12/23 @ 8:45am before Judge Everett.
11/30/23 Update: Answer to Demand for Discovery (within 15 days) & Demand for Notice of Alibi (in the event such defense is to be used at trial) filed by State.
12/4/23 Update: State's Amended: Answer to Demand for Discovery. Amended to add Exhibits (Jail calls, 11/9/23-12/1/23(67 files) & jail call record/summary report, 11/6/23-12/1/23) filed by Jack Campbell, State Attorney 2nd Judicial Circuit. 11/6/23 is the date Charles was declared guilty of all charges.
12/6/23 Update: Filed Emergency Motion to enjoin the jail for an independent psychological evaluation or release to House arrest by defense attorney Marissel Descalzo. Descalzo requested that Adelson be relocated from solitary confinement or, as an alternative, be placed under house arrest. Descalzo outlined various concerns, including Adelson reportedly sitting “naked” on a mattress on the floor & having no eating utensils. Response from the State: does not oppose an independent psychological evaluation; the State opposes Donn's release from pretrial detention.
12/6/23 Update: Arraignment hearing has been moved to 12/11/23 @ 3:30pm & a motion hearing is also set for same day/time.
 
As a follow up to my earlier post about washing the money in a dental clinic; it has since struck me that I was assuming that DA would have a functional knowledge about the goings on in a steri room. This may indeed not be the case. Although it is hard to imagine what exactly a practice manager's duties would be in such a small practice, some office workers in this situation never become proficient in steri. It's requires a certain willingness to be trained, and follow procedures perfectly. To stay safe, and keep the patients safe, it is quite a commitment. It might have been too lowly for DA. I would be surprised if HA knew how to turn an autoclave on.
 
Regarding DA’s reluctance to discuss her meds, maybe it was in fact partly due to the fact she somehow didn’t know the position/qualifications of the person who was trying to get the info from her. But I also really think that CA may have been the prescribing doctor at least for some meds she was on. At one point during cross GC asks him if he ever prescribed drugs to KM. He answered she was a patient of record at the dental practice. Also during June Umchinda’s police interview she was relaying how DA was distraught (crying, swollen face) during the time the media got involved with the investigation and CA told her (KM) that DA was on pain medication of some sort for her anxiety. I’m thinking CA might have prescribed those and perhaps she doesn’t want to disclose any of that info now. JMO
 
Agree. And the same reason why "Hebrew Bible" or "Tanakh" is preferred over the term "Jewish Bible."

When people mention the Jewish Bible, they usually refer to the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh. The term "Jewish Bible" is largely not preferred. The Hebrew Bible was originally written in Hebrew, with some small parts written in Aramaic. The main difference between the Torah vs. Tanakh is that the Torah is the first five books of the Hebrew Bible while the Tanakh is the whole Hebrew Bible.

Tanakh vs Torah, Definition, Differences
dbm
 
Last edited:
Regarding DA’s reluctance to discuss her meds, maybe it was in fact partly due to the fact she somehow didn’t know the position/qualifications of the person who was trying to get the info from her. But I also really think that CA may have been the prescribing doctor at least for some meds she was on. At one point during cross GC asks him if he ever prescribed drugs to KM. He answered she was a patient of record at the dental practice. Also during June Umchinda’s police interview she was relaying how DA was distraught (crying, swollen face) during the time the media got involved with the investigation and CA told her (KM) that DA was on pain medication of some sort for her anxiety. I’m thinking CA might have prescribed those and perhaps she doesn’t want to disclose any of that info now. JMO
Yep. I agree. On one of the Bump tapes I believe Donna has taken a Xanax that Charlie may have prescribed to her, he talks to her about how great it is. Does anyone recall that, and whether he actually says he gave it to her? Harvey also had the ability to prescribe.
 
Jewish people themselves do not, in my experience, use the term “Bible”, (Hebrew or otherwise), in any religious or liturgical setting. I have only heard term used by scholars and academics.
IDK for sure, but 3 million residents south of the Mason-Dixon lines surely screamed, "OMG not even a bible to read!" The point of the complaint was not to improve DA's situation, it was just another DA ploy to ask to go back to South Florida. Because we all know in DA's condo she surely has a bible at her bedside and an even larger one on her coffee table. (I'll tiptoe out of the room now.)
 
As a follow up to my earlier post about washing the money in a dental clinic; it has since struck me that I was assuming that DA would have a functional knowledge about the goings on in a steri room. This may indeed not be the case. Although it is hard to imagine what exactly a practice manager's duties would be in such a small practice, some office workers in this situation never become proficient in steri. It's requires a certain willingness to be trained, and follow procedures perfectly. To stay safe, and keep the patients safe, it is quite a commitment. It might have been too lowly for DA. I would be surprised if HA knew how to turn an autoclave on.
I am still undecided as to how that money was washed, but if I hadn't asked I wouldn't have got that useful bit of info.
Would the same apply to Charlie IYO?
Also IF anyone had mis- used some kind of steri equipment like this, could that explain why the notes might be damp? ( Such as they had messed-up a cycle?)
 
I am still undecided as to how that money was washed, but if I hadn't asked I wouldn't have got that useful bit of info.
Would the same apply to Charlie IYO?
Also IF anyone had mis- used some kind of steri equipment like this, could that explain why the notes might be damp? ( Such as they had messed-up a cycle?)
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm imagining rubber gloves, a hot sink of water and Morning Fresh liquid, and drying notes all pegged out on a string line like prayer flags to capitalism.

MOO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
189
Guests online
721
Total visitors
910

Forum statistics

Threads
586,931
Messages
17,873,249
Members
226,899
Latest member
kateQ
Back
Top