FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #22

[Zedzded]

I think at some point HA might have been a good person. I think the Ponzi scheme rip off broke him, embittered him and I think DA played a pivotal role in creating this monster. Perhaps without her he would not have morphed into the sociopath he is.

 

[amicuscurie]

I think at some point HA might have been a good person. I think the Ponzi scheme rip off broke him, embittered him and I think DA played a pivotal role in creating this monster. Perhaps without her he would not have morphed into the sociopath he is.

Maybe. But I’ve seen some old photos on various news shows where HA, in my opinion, looks like a pretty tough guy.

 

[Tanager]

Just trying to generate a little conversational momentum...

I have noticed a pattern in many of the cases that I tend to follow. There is a family culture that the substance of things does not matter so long as the appearance of things is attractive. Surface appearance and public perception/adoration become the core family values. When you can lie about everything in the name of looking good, it opens the door to doing grotesque things behind the scenes so long as you have an attractive veneer and lies to cover them up. Welcome to the narcissist farm!

I feel like the dangerous narcissist formula is loosely:

Extreme family focus on exterior attractiveness and acheivement, which begets
an addiction to being adored (narcissism), which begets
lies to preserve the illusion of perfection, which begets
horrible behavior to maintain the illusion and lies at all costs, which begets
the devaluation of anything that isn't about looking good, which begets
even more horrible behaviors like murder, and rinse and repeat.

It isn't going to result in murder in the vast majority of cases, of course.

A prime example is the Casey Anthony case. I have never seen such a deft and brazen liar in my life. CA's parents put far too much emphasis on her looks and encouraged her to lie on countless occasions. She lied about being pregnant for an absurdly long period of time, even when her pregnancy was obvious. She lied about her high school graduation and the paternity of her child. Of course, the worst of all of her lies involved killing her child. After lying about her missing daughter for 31 days, she she took the police down a real Universal Studios hallway toward her imaginary job in her imaginary office, and also pointed out her imaginary nanny's apartment in another building and suggested that she dropped her 2 year-old off at a random staircase there. CA's parents gave her permission to be an epic liar and dangerous narcissist for the rest of her life when they did not confront her lies (and encouraged them for appearance's sake!) in childhood. She learned to persist in her lies even when confronted.

As a mom and a counselor, I beg you to teach your kids that lying is wrong because it damages relationships, and that the appearance of things is meaningless if it is not consistent with the substance of things. It's whats inside that counts, my friend. Learning how to love and respect others and lead an authentic life are the most important things you can do to have meaning in your life. Of course, I think you already knew that. People who are passionate about justice are "insiders" rather than "look goods" in my experience. I just needed to say it.

You know who else LIES incessantly? WA full stop. Lies about eyes, presents for Harvey, how mean Dan was to her, driving down Trescott, her brother's car, and on and on. Lying is her lifestyle.

WA is also a new variant of a narcissist- the whiny kind rather than being overtly braggadocious. She has a sympathy vampire vibe and she has found a way to get others to do her evil by proxy via lies and manipulation. She has mastered the art of appearing vulnerable. Her power only has a limited range of 1-4 people at a time, however. In reviewing her trial testimony, people seem quite irritated by her act.

I also notice a pile of discarded people that WA has left behind after they have served their purpose. Attraction leads to extraction which leads to another word that rhymes with action that means to ditch someone while also maligning them and encouraging others to harm them.

Sorry about the length!

 

[Knitpicker]

Just trying to generate a little conversational momentum...

I have noticed a pattern in many of the cases that I tend to follow. There is a family culture that the substance of things does not matter so long as the appearance of things is attractive. Surface appearance and public perception/adoration become the core family values. When you can lie about everything in the name of looking good, it opens the door to doing grotesque things behind the scenes so long as you have an attractive veneer and lies to cover them up. Welcome to the narcissist farm!

I feel like the dangerous narcissist formula is loosely:

Extreme family focus on exterior attractiveness and acheivement, which begets
an addiction to being adored (narcissism), which begets
lies to preserve the illusion of perfection, which begets
horrible behavior to maintain the illusion and lies at all costs, which begets
the devaluation of anything that isn't about looking good, which begets
even more horrible behaviors like murder, and rinse and repeat.

It isn't going to result in murder in the vast majority of cases, of course.

A prime example is the Casey Anthony case. I have never seen such a deft and brazen liar in my life. CA's parents put far too much emphasis on her looks and encouraged her to lie on countless occasions. She lied about being pregnant for an absurdly long period of time, even when her pregnancy was obvious. She lied about her high school graduation and the paternity of her child. Of course, the worst of all of her lies involved killing her child. After lying about her missing daughter for 31 days, she she took the police down a real Universal Studios hallway toward her imaginary job in her imaginary office, and also pointed out her imaginary nanny's apartment in another building and suggested that she dropped her 2 year-old off at a random staircase there. CA's parents gave her permission to be an epic liar and dangerous narcissist for the rest of her life when they did not confront her lies (and encouraged them for appearance's sake!) in childhood. She learned to persist in her lies even when confronted.

As a mom and a counselor, I beg you to teach your kids that lying is wrong because it damages relationships, and that the appearance of things is meaningless if it is not consistent with the substance of things. It's whats inside that counts, my friend. Learning how to love and respect others and lead an authentic life are the most important things you can do to have meaning in your life. Of course, I think you already knew that. People who are passionate about justice are "insiders" rather than "look goods" in my experience. I just needed to say it.

You know who else LIES incessantly? WA full stop. Lies about eyes, presents for Harvey, how mean Dan was to her, driving down Trescott, her brother's car, and on and on. Lying is her lifestyle.

WA is also a new variant of a narcissist- the whiny kind rather than being overtly braggadocious. She has a sympathy vampire vibe and she has found a way to get others to do her evil by proxy via lies and manipulation. She has mastered the art of appearing vulnerable. Her power only has a limited range of 1-4 people at a time, however. In reviewing her trial testimony, people seem quite irritated by her act.

I also notice a pile of discarded people that WA has left behind after they have served their purpose. Attraction leads to extraction which leads to another word that rhymes with action that means to ditch someone while also maligning them and encouraging others to harm them.

Sorry about the length!

That is great. I stopped posting here because someone who posts here, criticized me on Reddit and when I mentioned it here, I was given a warning by the powers that be. I will get another Im sure. They said to “report it” but no clue how and it really doesnt matter.
This is an outstanding post. Parents, being liars themselves, do not put values in their children. I also can’t mention God or religion here but the Bible says who the father of lies is.

 

[SeesSeas]

TRIAL SET: 09/17/2024
STATE OF FLORIDA vs ADELSON, DONNA SUE

Leon County Clerk of Courts Civil Case Search

STATE OF FLORIDA vs ADELSON, DONNA SUE

Event Date Start Location Judge Result Source JURY NON JURY TRIAL 9/17/2024 8:30 AM EVERETT JIS​

4/4/2024 86​ TRST ‹‹-Req $ TRIAL SET E-FILED: TRIAL SET: 09/17/2024 08:30AM /ROOM# 3A JIS​ 4/4/2024 87​ ORDR ‹‹-Req $ ORDER ORDER GRANTING UNOPPOSED MOTION TO MODIFY TRIAL DATE JIS​

 

[LetsSolvIt]

That is great. I stopped posting here because someone who posts here, criticized me on Reddit and when I mentioned it here, I was given a warning by the powers that be. I will get another Im sure. They said to “report it” but no clue how and it really doesnt matter.
This is an outstanding post. Parents, being liars themselves, do not put values in their children. I also can’t mention God or religion here but the Bible says who the father of lies is.

@Knitpicker — It is hard to feel criticized — we are all vulnerable here. I have felt that way a few times myself and found taking a break from posting for a while does help.

Glad you are back!

To report something you feel is out of line or against WS rules, hit the “Report” link in the lower left corner of each frame.

 

[amicuscurie]

Just trying to generate a little conversational momentum...

I have noticed a pattern in many of the cases that I tend to follow. There is a family culture that the substance of things does not matter so long as the appearance of things is attractive. Surface appearance and public perception/adoration become the core family values. When you can lie about everything in the name of looking good, it opens the door to doing grotesque things behind the scenes so long as you have an attractive veneer and lies to cover them up. Welcome to the narcissist farm!

I feel like the dangerous narcissist formula is loosely:

Extreme family focus on exterior attractiveness and acheivement, which begets
an addiction to being adored (narcissism), which begets
lies to preserve the illusion of perfection, which begets
horrible behavior to maintain the illusion and lies at all costs, which begets
the devaluation of anything that isn't about looking good, which begets
even more horrible behaviors like murder, and rinse and repeat.

It isn't going to result in murder in the vast majority of cases, of course.

A prime example is the Casey Anthony case. I have never seen such a deft and brazen liar in my life. CA's parents put far too much emphasis on her looks and encouraged her to lie on countless occasions. She lied about being pregnant for an absurdly long period of time, even when her pregnancy was obvious. She lied about her high school graduation and the paternity of her child. Of course, the worst of all of her lies involved killing her child. After lying about her missing daughter for 31 days, she she took the police down a real Universal Studios hallway toward her imaginary job in her imaginary office, and also pointed out her imaginary nanny's apartment in another building and suggested that she dropped her 2 year-old off at a random staircase there. CA's parents gave her permission to be an epic liar and dangerous narcissist for the rest of her life when they did not confront her lies (and encouraged them for appearance's sake!) in childhood. She learned to persist in her lies even when confronted.

As a mom and a counselor, I beg you to teach your kids that lying is wrong because it damages relationships, and that the appearance of things is meaningless if it is not consistent with the substance of things. It's whats inside that counts, my friend. Learning how to love and respect others and lead an authentic life are the most important things you can do to have meaning in your life. Of course, I think you already knew that. People who are passionate about justice are "insiders" rather than "look goods" in my experience. I just needed to say it.

You know who else LIES incessantly? WA full stop. Lies about eyes, presents for Harvey, how mean Dan was to her, driving down Trescott, her brother's car, and on and on. Lying is her lifestyle.

WA is also a new variant of a narcissist- the whiny kind rather than being overtly braggadocious. She has a sympathy vampire vibe and she has found a way to get others to do her evil by proxy via lies and manipulation. She has mastered the art of appearing vulnerable. Her power only has a limited range of 1-4 people at a time, however. In reviewing her trial testimony, people seem quite irritated by her act.

I also notice a pile of discarded people that WA has left behind after they have served their purpose. Attraction leads to extraction which leads to another word that rhymes with action that means to ditch someone while also maligning them and encouraging others to harm them.

Sorry about the length!

I grew up in a family very much like you described, only nobody murdered anyone, as far as I know. My own mother, incidentally, who was extremely focused on outward appearances and on maintaining the illusion of perfection in her children, is fascinated by this case, and is totally appalled by Donna’s actions.

I have never heard the term “sympathy vampire,” before, but now that you’ve said it, I think it does describe Wendi, and her habit of appearing vulnerable to susceptible people. It is my belief that her primary motivation is not to get the actual assistance they provide (though she does need that), but to win them over to her side by making them feel like “heroes.” She may be counting on the fact that this will make them less likely to believe anything bad about her, despite all the evidence they have seen, because they don’t want to have to give up their whole heroic self-concept. I think you may be correct that this only works on a few people at a time, and I think she may have an instinct for figuring out who these people might be. I do think that there probably have been people who eventually wised up. To me, one can see this gradual wising-up process through Jeff’s police interviews.

And, I agree, she seems to me to lie easily and constantly. To me it seems like she is not only lying about facts and things that happened, but actually making up stories out of whole cloth.

 

[Knitpicker]

@Knitpicker — It is hard to feel criticized — we are all vulnerable here. I have felt that way a few times myself and found taking a break from posting for a while does help.

Glad you are back!

To report something you feel is out of line or against WS rules, hit the “Report” link in the lower left corner of each frame.

They were comments on Reddit, not here.
I guess they didn’t realize I’d be reading a whole thread there about my comments here. As if I’m so important lol.

 

[watergirl62]

TRIAL SET: 09/17/2024
STATE OF FLORIDA vs ADELSON, DONNA SUE

Leon County Clerk of Courts Civil Case Search

STATE OF FLORIDA vs ADELSON, DONNA SUE

Event Date Start Location Judge Result Source JURY NON JURY TRIAL 9/17/2024 8:30 AM EVERETT JIS​

4/4/2024 86​ TRST ‹‹-Req $ TRIAL SET E-FILED: TRIAL SET: 09/17/2024 08:30AM /ROOM# 3A JIS​ 4/4/2024 87​ ORDR ‹‹-Req $ ORDER ORDER GRANTING UNOPPOSED MOTION TO MODIFY TRIAL DATE JIS​

The pre-trial 'new info' dearth is such a brutal waiting period. Thanks for posting this (the light at the end of the tunnel).

 

[Niner]

TRIAL SET: 09/17/2024
STATE OF FLORIDA vs ADELSON, DONNA SUE

Leon County Clerk of Courts Civil Case Search

STATE OF FLORIDA vs ADELSON, DONNA SUE

Event Date Start Location Judge Result Source JURY NON JURY TRIAL 9/17/2024 8:30 AM EVERETT JIS​

4/4/2024 86​ TRST ‹‹-Req $ TRIAL SET E-FILED: TRIAL SET: 09/17/2024 08:30AM /ROOM# 3A JIS​ 4/4/2024 87​ ORDR ‹‹-Req $ ORDER ORDER GRANTING UNOPPOSED MOTION TO MODIFY TRIAL DATE JIS​

Wondering if jury selection will start on 9/15?

 

[Knitpicker]

Wondering if jury selection will start on 9/15?

When the judge announced the original date, he stated jury selection will begin that date. So it seems likely the same here.

 

[Niner]

When the judge announced the original date, he stated jury selection will begin that date. So it seems likely the same here.

I had jury selection starting on 9/26 with trial beginning on 9/30/24. So I figured a couple of days before the 17th - no? Or jury selection WILL start on 9/17/24?
Sorry - I am confused! LOL!

 

[watergirl62]

...

I had jury selection starting on 9/26 with trial beginning on 9/30/24. So I figured a couple of days before the 17th - no? Or jury selection WILL start on 9/17/24?
Sorry - I am confused! LOL!

Yes, 9/17/2024.

There was a motion filed requesting that things get pushed earlier so that the October holidays - Rosh Hoshanah and Yom Kippur - can be observed (presumably by the Markels). That is why the dates changed.

 

[amicuscurie]

...


Yes, 9/17/2024.

There was a motion filed requesting that things get pushed earlier so that the October holidays - Rosh Hoshanah and Yom Kippur - can be observed (presumably by the Markels). That is why the dates changed.

I read it differently. I thought it was Donna’s motion. It appears to me that they believe she will be acquitted, and they want this to happen before the holidays so she can go home and observe them with her family. Do I have that wrong?

 

[Niner]

...


Yes, 9/17/2024.

There was a motion filed requesting that things get pushed earlier so that the October holidays - Rosh Hoshanah and Yom Kippur - can be observed (presumably by the Markels). That is why the dates changed.

Thank you for that attachment! Have corrected my notes!

 

[jbc]

I read it differently. I thought it was Donna’s motion. It appears to me that they believe she will be acquitted, and they want this to happen before the holidays so she can go home and observe them with her family. Do I have that wrong?

I had heard via STS that it was Cashbaum's preference not to work on the high holy days.

 

[watergirl62]

I read it differently. I thought it was Donna’s motion. It appears to me that they believe she will be acquitted, and they want this to happen before the holidays so she can go home and observe them with her family. Do I have that wrong?

I had heard via STS that it was Cashbaum's preference not to work on the high holy days.

No idea. I thought they were just trying to control the narrative. Like, see how we don't hate the Markels?

 

[amicuscurie]

No idea. I thought they were just trying to control the narrative. Like, see how we don't hate the Markels?

Maybe the Markels will have some justice before Rosh Hashanah and they can start the new year on a positive note. And maybe Donna will be made to atone for her (alleged) sins in the literal, not just spiritual, sense this Yom Kippur.

 

[newbysleuther]

New Search Warrant for Google!!

 

[amicuscurie]

New Search Warrant for Google!! View attachment 499728

They want Donna’s emails. They’re just getting around to this now, nearly six months after Donna’s arrest? Amazing, given the central importance of Donna’s emails to this case, and the issue of motive. Arguably, in my opinion, it was those emails, in part, that led the police to suspect Donna’s involvement, after they first searched Wendi’s computer on the day of the murder. This is ten years later. Perhaps this is a new Gmail account they didn’t know about until they got Donna’s phone. But that “donnaharvey” address sounds familiar to me, I believe it was mentioned at trial.