FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[thorpedo]

I've tried to think of different scenarios about how Jen was taken and I really think she was taken by someone known to her. If she didn't answer a knock the neighbour I cant imagine her answering to a stranger late that night.
I think the previous comment about someone watching her movements and
would know this night time block would be opportune because no one would be looking for her is spot on.

I also googled chloroform as this was a previous theory for no signs of a struggle in the condo and it takes approximately 5 minutes of being held to the face to render a person unconscious. That is a long time when you count it and I cannot imagine this scenario if the fbi profiling height is correct for poi and based on Jens height and strength including moving her down stairs. It's possible but unlikely.

If the offender is known then an old boyfriend or co worker for example would have an update on the case because perhaps they were contacted eg co worker msg by another co worker to say have you heard Jen is missing or family friends contacting people could give this person a heads up to move the car otherwise this is jst sheer luck that the Kesse's arrived just after the car was moved. I don't believe the offender hung around her apartment until morning too risky with workers and leaving evidence behind. All imo only.

If the bathroom door was closed (Kesse's cant confirm or unconfirm) and based on weather conditions for that date is there any possibility the shower could remain wet?

Yes. I live in Houston with similar humidity. If the bathroom door is shut the shower will stay wet. I must leave the door open and vent on. In super humid weather it will stay wet no matter what is done.

 

[flgrl017]

The photo is blurry--it's definitely not your iPad.

I'll keep my eye out for a clearer one.

Thank you for your observations--you see some things there I wasn't seeing, but now that you point it out, I agree. Do you see any signs of her glasses?

I don't see her glasses and I just tested the photo with my photo editor.

 

[flgrl017]

My theory on the towel in the laundry room is someone had something in the dryer (either to dry it or get wrinkles out). They wrapped themselves in the towel and used that to cover up until whatever in the dryer was ready.

 

[flgrl017]

https://www.wunderground.com/histor...statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

There is the weather for January 24. Keep in mind that if she went missing when the phone went dead then if it were here showering it would have been the night before (during the cooler part of the day).

 

[NapQueen]

I try to keep an open mind when I look at the photos of her apartment because there is no way to definitively discern what was moved or touched by family or friends and what wasn't. Out of an abundance of caution, I prefer to assume that anything that was not consistently reported by the family as having been untouched prior to the photographs was probably moved or handled - which is absolutely not the fault of the family.

For example, with her bag - I think would have been totally reasonable and understandable if her parents had gone through it to look for clues to her whereabouts. As concerned parents, I would imagine they could have gone through anything and everything in the apartment to try to get any indication as to where she could be - especially after receiving the brush-off by the police.

The most frustrating part of this case, and, in my opinion, the biggest detriment to any progress towards a resolution, is the vast amount of misinformation and misstatements of facts. Lack of information on the investigation has led to the acceptance of misinformation as truth. Inaccurate information has been widely disseminated by the media and the public alike, both intentionally and unintentionally. As a result, numerous details and facts related to the case are frequently conflated. We all are trying our best to help in any way that we can but due to this issue (and many others) we are stuck.

What about going photograph by photograph to see where the theory would go if we assumed only that one item or group of items was untouched/untainted and assess what impact that would make on the possibilities when combined with the facts of the case?

 

[Truth Prevails]

I have found one workable link where Mrs. Kesse mentions about the bathroom door being opened when they got there, but Logan had gone in first.

I was curious about that because I thought I remembered hearing a different scenario. Make what you will of the following, but I believe that Mr. and Mrs. Kesse and Logan all entered as a group and the workable links below seem to confirm that.

(I'm still working on the link for the night clothes being on the bathroom floor, but the damp towel was over the washer in the washer/dryer room. I know that comes from the podcast but I was hoping to find an alternative source. It doesn't look like I can. I don't think I'll have trouble finding it, though--just hate using it for a link. I guess I'll have to hold my nose and do so).

This may not suit the theory some people hold; but it is what it is and it is all supported with working links. What it is not, is scuttlebutt.


Snipped from a CNN Transcript:
GRACE: What do you mean by that, that she may have been taken earlier?

RING: There -- we are -- we are still entertaining the possibility that she may have been taken sometime in the evening hours on Monday. [Aired February 17, 2006 - 20:00:00 ET]

GRACE: But why would her shower still be wet?

RING: That -- there`s a bunch of factors that can attribute that. And scientifically -- unless we can eliminate those scientifically, we`re going to keep an open mind in the investigation.

GRACE: OK. Now, listen, I`ve put up a lot of scientific evidence to juries before, but I don`t see what`s so scientific about a wet shower. What science are you talking about?

RING: What I`m trying to explain is that I am not certain, by the time the police got there and the Kesses got there, the actual amount of water that was in the shower. And without us being able to get more information about that, it would harm the investigation for us to pinpoint specifically one time.

Snipped​

DREW KESSE: Well, first of all, let me make it perfectly clear that it`s our gut feeling. We`re not scientists, or what have you. It`s just a gut feeling we have. But it just looked like she got up and got ready to go to work, as any other day she would get up and get ready to go to work to us. I would like to leave the timeframe open, but that`s just my gut feeling of what happened.

Snipped​

GRACE: OK. Let me ask the mom a couple of questions. Joyce, when you say there were outfits laid out on the bed, were they work outfits or were they jeans and a top?

JOYCE KESSE: Oh, no, they were work outfits.

GRACE: Work outfits. OK. And in the bathroom, did it look like she had taken a shower, or had the faucet just been dripping and it was still wet?

JOYCE KESSE: No. There was water -- you know how when you splash it on, like, where you`d keep your shampoo, that sort of thing? There was water there, and as I said, her towel was damp.

GRACE: Ah! OK. And was the bathroom door open or shut? Joyce?

JOYCE KESSE: It was open when we got there, but you know, our son was the first one in the condo.

GRACE: The reason I ask, because if it had been shut, it may have kept the towel from drying out. I know these are small facts...

JOYCE KESSE: Right.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/17/ng.01.html
______________________________

My transcription begins @ about 10:04 minutes into the video:
Greta: … Logan pulled into Jennifer’s condo complex.

Logan: [unclear] right up to her condo to see if it was opened—banged on the door, nothing. I went downstairs; saw the workers van down there right in front of her building; banging on the door; they’re not opening the door. I’m like—I’m just trying to yell through the door: ‘do you seen this girl? Do you know anything about her? Roll your windows down.’

They did not roll their windows down—didn’t want to have anything to do with me.

Greta: Soon after, Drew and Joyce arrived.

Logan: My dad called and the property manager met us back out there and opened the unit for us.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3tn24d
______________________________

Snipped quote from MSM article: "When we got to her condo, we used a spare key we had and opened the door," Kesse said. "Nothing was really out of order inside. The shower had been used and the bathroom was a little sloppy with clothes and hair stuff. She had a few items of clothes on the bed, like she was deciding what outfit to wear that morning, but everything seemed fine inside the condo."
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/jennifer-kesse-missing_n_2536613

 

[Truth Prevails]

My apologies for adding the picture below so soon after adding it on the previous page; however I would like to mention that Jennifer's condo bathroom had two doors--or it seems like that to me. One directly off her bedroom; and one directly off her foyer.

Were they both opened? Were they both closed? Could one have been opened and the other closed?

 

[Truth Prevails]

I try to keep an open mind when I look at the photos of her apartment because there is no way to definitively discern what was moved or touched by family or friends and what wasn't. Out of an abundance of caution, I prefer to assume that anything that was not consistently reported by the family as having been untouched prior to the photographs was probably moved or handled - which is absolutely not the fault of the family.

For example, with her bag - I think would have been totally reasonable and understandable if her parents had gone through it to look for clues to her whereabouts. As concerned parents, I would imagine they could have gone through anything and everything in the apartment to try to get any indication as to where she could be - especially after receiving the brush-off by the police.

The most frustrating part of this case, and, in my opinion, the biggest detriment to any progress towards a resolution, is the vast amount of misinformation and misstatements of facts. Lack of information on the investigation has led to the acceptance of misinformation as truth. Inaccurate information has been widely disseminated by the media and the public alike, both intentionally and unintentionally. As a result, numerous details and facts related to the case are frequently conflated. We all are trying our best to help in any way that we can but due to this issue (and many others) we are stuck.

What about going photograph by photograph to see where the theory would go if we assumed only that one item or group of items was untouched/untainted and assess what impact that would make on the possibilities when combined with the facts of the case?

BBM - I agree. They are victims of a terrible tragedy that transported them to a cycle of pain and grief that has gone on for 12 years.

They have remade themselves into warriors for their daughter, and I applaud them for it. They are deeply wounded, though.

My heart breaks for them all, but especially for Jennifer. Whatever she went through, I hope someday, in some way, she finds her way back to her family--where she can finally rest, and they can begin to heal.

 

[flgrl017]

Just thought of something. Since Jennifer used the mirror in the bathroom to get ready she would have had to air it out. First off the mirror is steamy. Second if you don't air it out, its almost impossible to out your makeup on and fix your hair in a hot & steamy bathroom.

 

[shelly111]

My apologies for adding the picture below so soon after adding it on the previous page; however I would like to mention that Jennifer's condo bathroom had two doors--or it seems like that to me. One directly off her bedroom; and one directly off her foyer.

Were they both opened? Were they both closed? Could one have been opened and the other closed?

View attachment 134117

Maybe he was hiding in the foyer?
When jennifer went to the bathroom,after finishing talking to Rob, he attacked her there
before leaving he staged the apt or he returned in the morning ?

 

[Truth Prevails]

Maybe he was hiding in the foyer?
When jennifer went to the bathroom,after finishing talking to Rob, he attacked her there
before leaving he staged the apt or he returned in the morning ?

I have contemplated something like this as a theory, too; and sometimes I even go back to it because I find it so hard to accept that Jennifer went out--for any reason on the evening of the 23rd.

However, if I ask myself why would he remove not only Jennifer but both cell phones from her condo, I think I have my answer. He wouldn't. Even if he wanted to punish not only Jennifer but also her parents by making sure that they would never find her--he wouldn't have knowingly taken the cell phones.

By the 10:40 pm "final event" pings from both phones, I think we can surmise that that is when he discovered them and destroyed them. He knew they could ping his location and he already had her away from her condo.

But that's about where I am--still lost trying to understand why she went out that night.

 

[Markybug]

Do we know what workers van it was ? Gardeners or painters for example?

 

[Markybug]

I have contemplated something like this as a theory, too; and sometimes I even go back to it because I find it so hard to accept that Jennifer went out--for any reason on the evening of the 23rd.

However, if I ask myself why would he remove not only Jennifer but both cell phones from her condo, I think I have my answer. He wouldn't. Even if he wanted to punish not only Jennifer but also her parents by making sure that they would never find her--he wouldn't have knowingly taken the cell phones.

By the 10:40 pm "final event" pings from both phones, I think we can surmise that that is when he discovered them and destroyed them. He knew they could ping his location and he already had her away from her condo.

But that's about where I am--still lost trying to understand why she went out that night.

We really need a definitive answer on the mobile phones, the pinging times etc

 

[MBscorpio24]

I think there is more to the phones, they must of had text/pictures, or voice messages on them, just my opinion.

 

[Markybug]

I think there is more to the phones, they must of had text/pictures, or voice messages on them, just my opinion.

As a reason they are missing? Rather than to hide a location etc ?

 

[Truth Prevails]

Do we know what workers van it was ? Gardeners or painters for example?

I've never heard anyone be more specific than "workers". It's pretty clear they have to careful about certain things, too.

We really need a definitive answer on the mobile phones, the pinging times etc

I would bet we will never get the ping times--unless in years to come law enforcement allows them to be released under the "Freedom of Information" act. (Or the Florida "Sunshine" law--I'm not sure what they call it).

I would be happy if they would confirm what time Jennifer's last phone call with Rob ended. Because of all the statements from law enforcement indicating that Jennifer pretty much dropped of the face of the earth at "around" 10 pm and we have been told that the call began at 9:57 pm--I believe it's possible that 9:57 pm is the end time.

Mr. Kesse--carefully choosing his words--has said: " ... and I think the time was somewhere between 10:40 and—10:20 and 10:40 PM on the 23rd; the night before we reported Jennifer missing. ...

I can find one other linkable quote from Mr. Kesse mentioning the 10:20 pm time; but I'm not sure of it's significance, if any. I have thought that he could be hinting that the phones pinged from 9:57 pm to 10:20 pm; then nothing until they were "manually disengaged" at 10:40 pm.

I don't know--but, it suggests that Jennifer must have literally ran out the door after completing her call with Rob, drove herself somewhere that took approximately 20 minutes, causing her cell phone to ping about 11 times.

So, the 20 minutes between 10:20 pm and the disabling of both cell phones at 10:40 pm would be the 20 minutes where the abduction actually occurred.

But if it's that simple--where was the location of the last ping and why wasn't something found there? Because I'd wager a small bet that LE has the exact time and the exact location of the last ping (prior to the "final event" pings from both phones). And that they checked, probably within the first 48 hours of Jenn's disappearance.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I think there is more to the phones, they must of had text/pictures, or voice messages on them, just my opinion.

Do you think there would be any chance that law enforcement could retrieve some of this information through the respective carriers for the phones?

 

[thesensitivechild]

Could she have last minute that night run out to get something? Something left in the car? Maybe she was unpacking and laid stuff out and realized she had no clean x, y, z. Maybe she got her period and decided to go to the cvs or local mart to get something hygiene related (or a toothbrush, or a snack, or anything else). The fact that clothing was on the bed folded means she took out clothing that night but then left and never returned. Or she put it there in the morning. If she took it out that night it would have been on the ground had she slept in the bed- so either she refilled it in the morning, took it out in the morning, or began unpacking that night, left remembering she needed something in that moment that was more important for her to get them than in the morning, and never returned (was abducted somewhere on her way or back that evening). This would also explain her taking her purse and phones. She may have only had to drive a few blocks. She may have been unpacking while on the phone with her boyfriend and then as they hung up she realized she needed to go to the store. The perp could potentially that morning used her place to clean himself (obviously this person would need to be slick, smart, and have a sense of how dna can be left behind). Upon cleaning himself he knew her behaviors enough to create a ruse, like she had been there, wets a towel and pushes out make up knowing it wouldn’t be realistic for that not to be out given she wore it regularly. He then takes the car eventually and moves it and wipes it down. If he knew to wipe down the car I bet he knew how to return to the home and be mindful of his dna and seeming clean when he left.

This is my first time really looking at this case so I can be incredibly off base. But sometimes good to get new eyes. I know it is crazy to fixate on but one literally may have to run out at night if they suddenly get their period or have no toilet paper etc. i thought why would she maybe actually leave that evening- if she did- and where could be close enough that she could be attacked in under twenty minutes too account for the phone. And I just thought, if I got my period and I had nothing at home.

Ugh who knows. Awful and sad case. Also apologies for typos. I hate proof reading.

It’s just two weird both those phones shut off then. It was intentional. And someone who likes texting and being in communication with family and friends doesn’t just do that. The police need to look directly at when those phones stopped being powered on. If it was at night then they know she was abducted at night even if this means she was taken from her apartment or someone followed her home or she was intercepted en route to grab something. Which phone went off first? Was it a matter of minutes or hours? Did one have a longer lasting battery? Did they have the same battery? Could she have left her charger on vacation? Did the phones run out of power? My guess is they were both purposefully shut off.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Truth Prevails]

I don't see her glasses and I just tested the photo with my photo editor.

Thank you for responding to my question, and sorry to be so long getting back to this.

I believe that Mrs. Kesse has said that Jennifer's glasses were found on her bedside table. (I'm searching for a link for that, so maybe for right now we can treat it as a rumor).

If that is correct, I find it is also another indication that Jennifer never got up and got ready for work on the morning of the 24th; or ready for anywhere, really--even on the evening of the 23rd.

Jennifer's father has said that Jennifer was "blind" without her glasses.

At least some people with eyesight similar--and I'm one of them--would put their glasses on immediately upon standing up or just before. I may occasionally skip them for a quick bathroom trip, but that would be about it.

And when I wore contacts, I would always leave my glasses right beside my contact case--after I had put them in.

So, the glasses left on her bedside table but the contacts missing is one of the little points that bother me. But, it's only one of many in this case.

Just food for thought, I guess.

Further evidence of staging maybe--but one he didn't get quite right?

 

[Markybug]

Do you think there would be any chance that law enforcement could retrieve some of this information through the respective carriers for the phones?

Assuming they will know who phoned jenn that night / she phoned , on the landline and the mobile ? And if so , why hasn’t it helped?