FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

Discussion in 'Jennifer Kesse' started by Harmony 2, May 9, 2017.

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  1. Ozoner

    Ozoner Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the car was moved twice. Maybe he abducted her from her condo parking lot in his truck, decided to buy time by going back to move her car and make it look like she had left, but then moved it a second time, maybe because he realized he could be connected to the first place where he had left it.

    Or, maybe he surprised her while she was getting something out of her trunk, so disabling her and forcing her into her own trunk proved to be expedient.
     
  2. Markybug

    Markybug Well-Known Member

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    Mr kesse seems very focused on tips phoned in , in the first few weeks , be interesting to know what he thinks could be there ?

    Apart from a worker he has stated lied re jenn leaving him to lock up her flat , does he have anyone else he suspects ?
     
  3. JnRyan

    JnRyan Well-Known Member

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    LE has stated they only have a partial print and partial DNA from Jennifer's car. They've never stated they found anything forensic evidence that Jennifer had been in the trunk which leads me to wonder if another vehicle wasn't used. And the car was moved after the abduction to confuse or delay the investigation.

    I don't remember the timeline, but Jennifer's parents called the condo manager and asked to him to check on the condo while they were in route to Orlando. He supposedly checked her parking spot and her car was gone then. I don't remember when this occurred, but I believe it was before noon. Workers that morning stated her car was already gone and that was probably between 0730 and 0800. (A tall, good looking lady was probably someone they noticed every morning and Jennifer stated they were often staring at her to the point where it made her uncomfortable. So, yes, they might have noticed.) So, moved twice? Possible.

    So many questions, though. LE delayed doing any investigating of the case so when did they finally talk to the workers? With Jennifer being out of town and her car parked at her boy friend's place 2 hours away could the workers have Tuesday confused with Monday? Her car was probably gone from that spot since the middle of the previous week. Even though Jennifer is a striking lady, how much credence do I put in the fact that the workers are going to make note of one person each and every day?

    Even though the condos were only partially occupied, you would think if there was a scream at least ONE person would have heard it. If Jennifer were attacked suddenly between her condo and the car, she would have dropped her purse and maybe her briefcase. Whoever did this took the time to clean up the scene as well as abduct Jennifer? As I've noted before there was a similar case in the 90's. Jodi Huisentruit. It happened much earlier in the morning (btw 0500 and 0600?). At least 2 neighbors heard screams, heard a vehicle leaving the area. Jodi's key was broken off in the lock as if she were abducted while opening her car door and personal items - a shoe and things she was carrying were found around Jodi's car. But in Jennifer's case there is nothing like that here.

    If Jennifer's car REALLY wasn't in her spot when the landscapers arrived - and I believe she usually left after they already arrived - then we don't really know when the car was moved since she was last heard from the night before. And I still find it interesting that LE has never mentioned finding any forensic evidence of someone - alive or dead - in the trunk.

    In many cases I've heard where LE still has the victim's car. I believe it was either the Maura Murray or Brianna Maitland case where a reporter actually saw the victim's car in a police impound lot. But LE did not keep the car in this case. I wonder why? If forensic technology advances they can't use a new technique now.

    And that partial print and DNA. That could belong to the last person that worked on Jennifer's car as it was a lease.
     
  4. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Kesse says he is looking only for Jennifer. He says he doesn't care about anything else.

    It's hard to say why he believes that a tip pointing to Jennifer's location may have come in during the first two weeks.

    Maybe it's just that after the first two weeks, law enforcement was down to searching locations called in by psychics.
     
  5. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    Bold by me: Do you feel the trunk was excluded by their statements that evidence was found in the car?

    Mrs. Kesse has recently said that LE kept all items that were in Jennifer's trunk. To this day, even the Kesses have not been given a list of those items.

    Below I'll link an article from the 10 year presser stating LE was going to re-submit evidence from "Kesse's car". We all know now that nothing came of the re-submission, but the link still works and I don't personally see how the trunk can be excluded.

    In fact, it's been said--but I'm stating this as rumor only as I have no link for it at the current time--that the only prints found in the car were Jennifer's. If true, that indicates to me that not only was the car not wiped; but that the partial print did not come from the driver/passenger section of Jennifer's vehicle.

    Snipped quote: Detectives are actively working the case and said the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is re-examining evidence from Kesse’s car. Orlando Police Detective Teresa Sprague said the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is re-examining evidence. She says new technology may uncover to new leads.

    “A lot of the testing that’s been done can be redone with these new kits,” said Det. Sprague. “We are concentrating on Jennifer’s vehicle. We think the answers probably there. So some of the things they have tested and have not been successful with we want to re submit to them.”

    http://www.wmfe.org/after-ten-years-search-continues-for-jennifer-kesse/56158


    Very risky.


    Bold by me: Something probably worth noting although I no longer believe Jennifer was abducted in the morning--Mr. Kesse has said that every Tuesday morning without fail, five lawn care workers arrived to do grounds maintenance on Jennifer's building. Well, there would be at least one lawn mower going, possibly more, plus trimmers, etc. Maybe the noise would drown out any scream?


    But they did call the car a crime scene early on in the investigation. The Kesses say Jennifer left for work between 7:30 am and 8:00 am. (I have never heard what her actual work hours were--I find that odd).

    We know there had been approximately 11 pings from at least one of the cell phones by 10:20 pm on the 23rd--so something was moving--somewhere and somehow.

    However, not only do we not know when the car was "moved", (or used for the abduction); we don't know for a certainty where she parked on the 23rd. Yes, she had an assigned spot, but many people have asked if she could have parked on the other side of her building (pond side) if she wanted to; and there has never been an answer.

    We have the following showing they did, indeed, look elsewhere at the complex for her car, so they must have thought it could have been parked elsewhere. Another problem with the following is no time is given, but the Kesses have been fairly consistent with giving 11:00 am to 11:15 am as the time frame of the following:

    Snipped quote from Drew, Joyce, Logan Kesse and Rob Allen copied to W/S: We contacted the management office of her condo complex, explained the situation and asked them to please check on her. The door was locked, upon entering the unit they found nothing amiss, they then drove the complex in search of her car, not there. We then began the drive to Orlando, calling Rob, her friends, the hospital ER’s, and the police.
    https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...4-Orlando-24-Jan-2006-2&p=1239183#post1239183


    Maura Murray--they have her car in the outside parking lot of the towing company, I believe. Still, at least they have it available--Jennifer's was shockingly and astonishingly returned to the leasing company after being called the crime scene. That truly boggles my mind. Did anyone ever really want to find out what happened to this young woman?
     
  6. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    My apologies for quoting your comment twice, but I'm finally back with a supporting link:


    @ about 15:28 minutes in:
    Mrs. Kesse: Jennifer never showered—never, ever showered at night to go to work the next day. Sure she would shower at night if she was going out, you know, to a club or something like that, or a party; but, she was not the type of person that showered the night before going to work.

    And not that there is anything wrong with that because there is a lot of people that do that—but that wasn’t Jennifer. And that is how we know.

    Plus, she had a lot—you know how most women have a lot of shampoo and cream rinse bottles in their showers? And she had a tub—so, you know the corners where water collects when you are taking a shower? There was—it wasn’t that the walls were wet. There was still water in the corners behind her shower bottles.

    So, there you go. She showered. The wet towel that she had draped over her washer machine; and then she had—you know, the underwear and night—the t-shirt that she wore to bed the night before on her bathroom floor. The contacts were out of her contacts case; her eyeglasses were left behind.

    She had, you know, three articles of clothing on her bed. So.

    https://audioboom.com/posts/5969731-endpoints
     
  7. rd_jfc

    rd_jfc Well-Known Member

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    I think everyone's agreed that she wasn't showering for work next day.

    If she left to go somewhere in her car however briefly, as ping records up until they stop and no phone activity the next morning indicate, the shower and clothes including her heels and contacts was for that.

    It just comes down to not believing she would go anywhere for any reason after she said goodnight to her bf. It's just out of the realm of believing. I don't know how brief the drive was intended, but a shower indicates more than going out to the car to get the DVD player, for example.

    I wish for Kesse's piece of mind sake there was some indication Jennifer had a normal Tuesday morning at home but there isn't any. Well more than no indication, the cessation of both phones between 10:20 and 10:40 pm means no alarm clock, no location updates from the phones that would occur, no text that it sounds like Rob got soon after she woke up, no activity in the kitchen, no car seen, just everything stopped at 10:40 pm.

    There's no piece of mind that Tuesday morning was normal to be had.
     
  8. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    While I definitely agree, I think what caused Jennifer Kesse--of all people--to go out alone on that fateful Monday night contains the key to solving this case and bringing Jennifer home. I don't think there will be one without the other.

    Why did Jennifer become a target for a piece of clever, evil, filth that most likely still walks the face of the earth? There has to be a shred of evidence in her past that would point to his identity.

    There had to have been a fairly major event that caused Jennifer to leave the safety of her condo. There is the small loose-end evidence such as the knock on her door; the mace on her counter, the flashlight--all things that indicate an always cautious Jennifer had been placed into high alert. But yet she didn't grab her cell phone and reach out to anyone as was her habit when feeling uneasy. Why?

    What had been going on in the past two, three, maybe six months of her life? What was her normal evening routine; her routine when she wasn't returning from a flash vacation and exhausted from a grueling 12 hour day? What were her interests; her hobbies? Who did she talk to; who did she spend her time with?

    The person who abducted her would most likely appear on the fringe of this group--lurking; obsessed; jealous; plotting his revenge; hiding under a mask of normality.

    Maybe still around; visiting; watching the Kesses' pain. Enjoying himself. Doing all the things he prevented Jennifer from doing--married now, raising his family, advancing in his career.

    Only he knows where Jennifer is. Law enforcement needs to find him.
     
  9. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    This is my transcription from an interview Mrs. Kesse gave. It's poignant. Surprisingly, she touches on many of the theories we discuss and discuss and discuss here. But mostly, I find she gives us a small snapshot of the supporting, close, caring family that Jennifer was part of. OMG, how did this happen?

    @ about 29:37 minutes in:
    Mrs. Kesse: She was 5’8” and wearing three inch heels; and a very tall confident young woman. If anybody would have come up to her, short of them putting a knife around her neck or a gun in her side, she would have fought tooth and nail.

    I mean we used to be a “Law and Order” family; and Jennifer and I would, you know, whoever fell asleep the night before, or you know, the night of the “Law and Order” episode—we were on the phone: “Hey, how did the episode end?”—kind of deal.

    And she always knew, and this is freaky weird and it’s going to make me—I’m just going to say it.

    Christmas Eve, the exact month before Jennifer was abducted; her and I had a mother/daughter day. And we were, you know, talking about everything and nothing, and we wound up talking about car-jackings.

    And Jennifer—creature of habit—would get in a car, take her elbow, lock the car button; put her seat-belt on.

    Well, as the creature of habit in doing that, she also would look around her car.

    So, she had to have been somehow, you know, maybe chloroformed because nobody heard her scream on the ground floor condos right by where her car was. So, she would have had to have been—or maybe she could have been tasered.

    But Jennifer knew that if she was going to be car-jacked; she knew that if somebody got in her car and had a gun or had a weapon—she knew to crash the car because she was wearing her seatbelt and had an airbag.

    She knew that if she ever got put in a trunk of a car—if she had the capability—to look for the trunk release or to kick-out the tail light.

    Like, she knew this stuff. So that’s why it’s so baffling and mind-blowing that Jennifer could have been the victim of a crime.

    So we struggle with that because we know how safe and aware of her surroundings that Jenn is. And, you know, her friends used to tease her and call her Mother Hen because she always, you know, was just making sure that everybody was, you know, the girls would go out to downtown Orlando for the night. She was the one that would be making sure that everybody—we came together; we would leave together—kind of deal.

    And why it is so hard for us to—you can never accept something like this; but we just can’t wrap our heads around how she could have become the victim; other than her being chloroformed or tasered.

    Because even if somebody caught her in the hallway when she locked her condo door, and if she would have walked down the stairs to the car; maybe there was a van parked alongside of her car and the van door opened and Jenn got pulled in.

    I mean, there was an empty condo unit right across from Jenn’s condo, and that unit was unlocked. Could someone have taken her in the hallway and brought her in the condo and taken her out some other way?

    I mean, your mind can go in a million different directions about that.

    https://audioboom.com/posts/5969731-endpoints
     
  10. Ozoner

    Ozoner Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully snipped.

    I think you have your answer right there about the shower. Jennifer might not have showered for work before bed, but after a grueling 12-hour day, anybody might take a quick shower before bed. Who wants to crawl into clean sheets grimy, sweaty, and smelly? She probably spread the towel out on the dryer because she intended to use it again in the morning and hoped it would dry overnight.
     
  11. Markybug

    Markybug Well-Known Member

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    Good point. But would that not have been mentioned by jenn to rob ?

    I think its said she was a shower in the morning person also ? Although as you say , after a busy time of it she might have changed her routine slightly.

    Still leaves us without a reason for going out (if at all)
     
  12. Jbetty567

    Jbetty567 Well-Known Member

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    Hi all - haven’t checked in in a while and am surprised to see that the theories are trending toward the attack happening at night. My theory has always been that someone was waiting for Jennifer that last morning, someone who knew her work routine and what time she would leave. She unlocked the car and reached in or bent down to drop her purse and briefcase in the car - could have even been the passenger side door (which is what investigators believe was the case in the Jodi Huisentruit abduction). At that point Jennifer’s assailant took advantage of the element of surprise by coming up behind her and using a taser to stun her, shoved her into the car, jumped in and drove away. Mission accomplished in under 10 seconds. This to me is the most plausible, and the simplest, scenario given what we know.
     
  13. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    I think if she was in bed and decided to take a quick trip to the car she would have put on some sweats or yoga pants and flip flops. That's what I would have done. I'd be willing to put money on her having more than 2 pairs of sandals. She lives in Florida. Even if she decided to run a quick errand most girls would still only throw on some yogas or sweats and flip flops. From everything I know about the condo it looks like she either got ready for work, got ready to go out, or got ready to entertain a guest.

    Do we know if the heels are really missing? Could they have been in her briefcase and the police have them.
     
  14. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    What leads me to believe that there is staging is all the facts we know don't add up to paint a clear picture. If it wasn't for the cell phone data it would, but I believe the cell phone data trumps the scene in the condo.
     
  15. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone ever say how long that hole had been in the fence and if it was noticeable from just driving by in a vehicle?
     
  16. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    You would think that if she was lying to her bf, at least one if her girlfriends would know she was seeing someone else or there would have been something in her phone records that tipped the cops off.

    That's why I think someone may have showed up at her door uninvited but she knew them and decided to let them in. That doesn't explain her getting ready though.
     
  17. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    I think she probably would have just stuck the phone in her purse so she wouldn't forget in in the morning. I don't see her making a trip to the car just for that.
     
  18. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    I hope they investigated the pings of her phone during the months leading up to her disappearance. I wonder if they show her going out after talking to her bf or if they only happened the night she disappeared. I think that would be quite telling.
     
  19. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    BBM - an interesting thing to note is that Jennifer's heels--like her briefcase--are not listed as missing on her FBI missing person's bulletin.

    So, could her heels have been inside her briefcase--maybe. If Mr. Kesse is correct in saying in believes he saw the briefcase in the trunk before Jenn left on vacation, then the answer is most likely no, because it seems she had them--either on vacation, or she wore them to work Monday? Or maybe she just bought them on vacation? Mrs. Kesse says they were new and she was very proud of them.


    I have two "rumors only". What I mean by that is I believe they are truthful, but I can't confirm them with a link.

    #1) It's said except for those living and working at the Jennifer's complex, that way in would not be known to anyone. (This makes me question the accuracy of the picture because it doesn't look at all used to me).

    #2) Bo didn't track the POI walking around the pool. Instead, she tracked out to the turn-in from the highway and followed the sidewalk back to the Mosaic.
     
  20. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    BBM - This is a really good point. Jenn had talked to her best girl friend for about two hours on the 23rd. They had known each other since the 2nd grade. I'll bet Jenn really trusted her and would have told her a lot. She was interviewed by law enforcement, but that's about all we know--no details, of course.

    I think the "idea" that Rob was the long-distance boyfriend and there was another man "on the side" has just enough mystique to it to make it fly on the forums. But it's the easy answer--no pun intended.

    Something happened on the 23rd--that I'm sure of. But not anything like the above. I just keep thinking of a knock on her door; the mace out on the counter; maybe a flashlight. Something happened; there was a main event. But what? Who? It really matters. Someone who knows Jennifer, knows something. Do they not realize it?

    Just to keep myself sounding like a broken record--I don't believe Jennifer was seeing another man behind Rob's back. Mrs. Kesse said Jennifer believed Rob was "the one" for her and they were beginning to talk of marriage. He actually took Jennifer to St. Croix to meet his best male friend and the wife and children of that friend.

    I have this old link from an interview Larry King did with Mr. & Mrs. Kesse and Logan:

    KING: We're going to give the numbers out. Logan, did she have a boyfriend?

    L. KESSE:Yes, she does have a boyfriend. I think they've been together probably about a year now.

    KING: Were they very serious?

    L. KESSE:Yes, they were. They had actually just gotten back from vacation in St. Croix that following Monday before she went missing on Tuesday. They had a great time. They loved each other very much and they just got back like I said from vacation at St. Croix that Monday night and she drove up from Fort Lauderdale, where he lives, on Monday morning and went straight into work and they have a good relationship as far as all of us know.

    KING: I see. And, Joyce, he doesn't live in Orlando, huh?

    J. KESSE:No, he lives in Fort Lauderdale and often he'd come up one weekend. She'd go down there, so that's pretty much how their relationship has been but he was a great guy.

    KING:He must be very concerned.

    J. KESSE: Oh, and then some. He feels the anguish. The hole is in his heart like ours.

    http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/10/lkl.01.html


    I think this, too. If I try hard enough, I can see her maybe deciding to go out to her car to bring up the DVD player--but getting totally attired, probably with contacts, high heels and a change of underwear, doesn't fit.


    Mr. and Mrs. Kesse have said that Jenn rarely went out in the evening after work; and never after 10 o'clock at night; and never, ever alone (at that time). And never, never to the seedy area where law enforcement implied her phone was pinging.

    But, could they be wrong? I don't think so, but maybe.

    I agree with your thinking that firm physical evidence leaning one way or the other would be ideal.
     
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