FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

Discussion in 'Jennifer Kesse' started by Harmony 2, May 9, 2017.

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  1. flgrl017

    flgrl017 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. From all the comments the Kesse's made, I see evidence of her getting ready to go somewhere too. I also think it was a nighttime abduction. That's why I think the apartment is staged. In my mind, it's either staging or she lied to Rob about being ready for bed if you believe in a nighttime abduction.
     
  2. Markybug

    Markybug Well-Known Member

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    Thank you , great info ����

    This area , does / did anyone “known” live there or work there at all?
     
  3. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    Well, as far as inexplicable things--we might as well just throw them all out for discussion and try to wade through them one by one--or as many times as it takes.

    I believe Mr. Kesse when he says that both cell phones "were not powered down, but either destroyed or batteries physically taken out" somewhere between 10:20 PM and 10:40 PM on the 23rd; the night before they reported Jennifer missing.

    Even if Travis' cell phone had been powered off earlier by Jennifer, this could still happen. Cell phones are not totally dead when they are powered off. They are small computers and there is stuff that stays alive in there checking this and that. But when, as Mr. Kesse says they are either being destroyed or their batteries are being physically removed, they send a final event signal to the closest tower. They are attempting to record their final location as they are dying--I'm sure this is a result of deliberate programming; but it's a good thing.

    It is not the same as a normal ping--the towers record it as the "final event" ping.

    I hope someone else weighs in who can explain it to you in more technical terms.

    Another thing is--law enforcement should have been able to find the location of that "final event" ping. There would have been two--one from Jennifer's phone and one from Travis' phone. The likelihood is high that they do have the location (from triangulation)--but since no phones were found, I guess that would be an indication that the perpetrator gathered up the parts after he finished destroying them, and disposed of the parts in another location.

    A big question for me has become why do the Kesses want us to know that both phones went dead at the same time when it so clearly points to an evening abduction? I don't know what other meaning it could have; or, perhaps, what are we looking away from as we look toward the pings?
     
  4. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    Right. I do see this case as strange compared to other cases I have followed.

    The very first thing I noticed was that Jennifer is not a normal "victim" type. Next, the crime itself went so smooth--no witnesses, we might as well say no evidence--but somehow a young woman is gone. 12 years later, she is still gone--so he was successful in disposing of whatever he needed to dispose.

    It really is a conundrum. None of the pieces seem to settle in any manner which would allow a simple theory to emerge.
     
  5. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. I think with the car being dropped off so near; and with all the attention law enforcement attributed to it in the beginning; people will always find it suspicious.

    I'm not sure what I even make of it, except I believe Jennifer never went to the area of her own freewill--that night or any other night.

    Could the POI live in that area? Maybe. If it was a stranger abduction. But why would a stranger meticulously plan to abduct Jennifer? There would have been at least a thousand easier targets.

    But if the phone pinged in the area and the gas mileage supports it, did someone Jennifer know take her by force to the neighborhood? Maybe.

    My guess is law enforcement had informants in the area, and visited each and everyone of them. The area was heavily searched. But, did they miss something? Maybe.
     
  6. Markybug

    Markybug Well-Known Member

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    Was the Blue Martini bar in that area?
     
  7. rd_jfc

    rd_jfc Well-Known Member

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    From what I've read here, which was all new to me in last year or two, was that it was located at Millenia Mall. (I assume an outside entrance to it.) The Mall is close to the Mosaid, and opposite direction from HOTG and the area in question extends (based on the roads given) further from HOTG over to next major road over, Orange Blossom.

    It breaks my heart to see that intersection of Texas and Americana described as it is (and we have a poster here who has lived at HOTG who backs up the perception of the statistics). I stood at the corner, in the street, on a Sunday afternoon. It was so peaceful and tranquil and pretty there, just me, standing in the street.

    I walked around the pool. I wrote up a road report. I think about the people I spoke to there, think about how they are statistics in a zip code. And about that Sunday afternoon looking at the aftermath of death.

    Parked at their doorstep.
     
  8. rd_jfc

    rd_jfc Well-Known Member

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    I see references to stuff like this, but then it is you, truth, who gives the details. Clicking on Thanks just isn't enough for your posts.
     
  9. rd_jfc

    rd_jfc Well-Known Member

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    yeah, Truth, I posted that 2014 post from Drew so many times I was embarrassed to post it again before you posted transcripts about it until you were embarrassed to post it again.

    It was only through your efforts that it even gained any traction. Because Drew dismissed it, most others ignored it. As is the way it goes.

    I have several comments. I would welcome any technical info on that which was technically described to Drew as batteries removed or phone destroyed. I have speculated many times in these pages that the phone sends a final signal as the battery power is disconnected, an identifiable ping from which the technicians could provide that analysis given to Drew, but I was never able to find anything on it, and I have done a lot of searching over several years because the issue keeps getting raised.

    However, it was total speculation, I have never seen anything on an identifiable ping that would show battery being removed or phone destroyed (last gasp signal if you will). It might be inferred from lack of something else, I don't know, but would be very helpful if there was technical information on what Drew was told. Of course this isn't the first or last time I'll ask for it either.

    Another comment on triangulation. I discussed that at length a few weeks ago. I have used the term triangulation in quotes in past posts. Something like a type of pseudo triangulation. With that I was referring to a record of pings, the towers involved, and the towers giving general hints about area and direction of movement. Very general. I ended up phrasing it as tending to probably be more toward the tower locations in an overlap area rather than farther away. And that's all that can be taken from it.

    It was absolutely wrong for the OPD to point out a bad area and tell Drew that he didn't know his daughter. Wrong because that OPD doesn't know what he's talking about and wrong because he said something very cruel based on not knowing what he's talking about.

    Triangulation which does locate cell phones is a completely different thing that is done at request of law enforcement. It requires cell towers equipped for it and is from my reading like a radar sent from multiple towers. The responses from the cell phone are measured for delay, and the strength of each tower signal is required for the computation, information that isn't made available to the public. From these simultaneous responses at multiple towers, a fairly precise location can be measured for the cell phone.

    Again, this is only performed on demand. The terms triangulation and location of cell phone are not applicable otherwise. Of course GPS available has changed things greatly, and location is determined without any reference to cell towers. Without GPS, and I remember that people talking about GPS on their cell phone in 2006 era as a big new optional thing, what is known are location of cell towers, and the cell phone can be anywhere within range of the tower. In the big picture, that locates you to say within a few miles of the tower. That doesn't locate you to a neighborhood.

    Also, it is beyond belief that people in this business like the OPD would consider the missing person as voluntarily driving away from something reasonable like a well lit commercial area into crime ridden areas of the city voluntarily rather than having been oversome and being abducted. These are assumptions that wouldn't even be acceptable on this board.

    Of course we saw that these are also people who didn't even care to take notes so that pretty much says what kind of investigators they are.

    As far as Drew relating being told this even though it doesn't support what they believe happened, he related it in a way that said technology was so obsolete the information was worse that worthless. He thought that communicating with a tower miles away and then back to one closer before one could drive very far was some kind of fatal flaw in technology.

    And maybe people tried to explain and he just didn't want it to work, I don't know. But what he dismisses is not fatally flawed technology. It's the way cell phones and cell towers work. To this day.
     
  10. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    BBM
    I wonder what he meant by that?
     
  11. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    I made this to help you out a little, Marky. I know it's hard when you are not familiar with an area. I have the same problem, so that's why I go a bit crazy with my maps and charts sometimes. :)

    I hope I haven't went too far with my effort and ended up cluttering it with so many boxes.

    I used a slight red line straight down the middle of John Young Parkway as this seems to be the dividing highway between the higher class and a bit lower class neighborhoods

    Mr. & Mrs. Kesse stood on the corner of John Young Parkway and Conroy Road for months during rush hour traffic handing out missing flyers for Jennifer, and also holding up larger signs.

    There is a 7-Eleven right across on the other corner (John Young Parkway and Americana Blvd.-note the name change of the one straight road), where law enforcement collected surveillance video--it's only one of many places where video was collected from, though. They say nothing was found, but the location is interesting to note.

    Conroy Road and Americana Blvd. (one straight road with a name change basically between the two different types of neighborhoods) is where the yellow arrows showing Bo's path is. (And John Young Parkway intersects it).

    I have marked where the Blue Martini bar was--it's not there anymore. There is a bar or restaurant there currently, I believe. It's was on the tony neighborhood side located in the Mall at Millenia, with its own separate entrance. That was a new indoor shopping mall in 2006 and was considered to be an absolutely gorgeous place.

    If anyone disagrees with any of this, please just jump right in and let me know. I will appreciate it.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Truth Prevails

    Truth Prevails Well-Known Member

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    This is simply my own understanding of things, so please take it with a grain of salt.

    Early on in this case, law enforcement appeared to believe that Jennifer most likely went to a neighborhood near where she lived to buy drugs or maybe even to prostitute her body. (I'm not sure how far they took it).

    I'm not kidding, though. There was even a theory going around that Jennifer went out to buy drugs in that neighborhood and got accosted as she tried to walk home--and was too drugged out to defend herself. It was so cruel, it was horrendous.

    Mr. and Mrs. Kesse were outraged, and who can blame them? It was this kind of action from law enforcement 12 years ago that became the catalyst for the broken-down relationship that exists between the two sides today.

    I believe law enforcement has apologized, but apologies are just words, you know? They still don't have their daughter and maybe it really is due to all the time LE spent chasing down prostitutes and rooting through drug infested neighborhoods.

    The Kesses tried to tell them Jennifer would never go to those neighborhoods. She was informed and she was aware. She was straight and clean. She didn't go to those places. But their response was that sometimes people don't know their kids.

    Mr. Kesse even got a sample of Jennifer's hair from her hair brush, I think, and had it analyzed on his own dime. It came back clean--just as he had said all along it would. But he was desperate to show them some evidence that they might believe since they weren't listening to him and Joyce.

    Now, this will make everyone angry with me--but in law enforcement's defense, I believe they had supporting pings from Jennifer's cell phone that placed her in that area. I may go as high as a 75% chance that in most cases law enforcement would be right to go with the pings--but it was not right in Jennifer's case.

    If the phone was pinging in that area, then Jennifer was already abducted and not there on her own free-will; or someone had separated Jennifer from her cell phone--which was a lifeline to her--and was deliberately and cleverly setting the stage to mislead law enforcement.

    As you get more familiar with the case, you will see that the timeline from Jennifer's last landline phone call to when her cell phone must begin to ping is so tight that it is unfathomable how quickly Jennifer's abduction must have taken place.

    Honestly, it doesn't even make sense to me.

    I'll stop now before I write you one of my novella's. :)
     
  13. Ozoner

    Ozoner Well-Known Member

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    This situation highlights a problem with all police investigations: police work doesn't always attract the brightest and best. It's very dangerous, blue collar work; people with the IQ's to become engineers, physicists, etc. usually DON'T opt for a line of work that would put them at risk of getting shot on a daily basis. Most cops are people of average intelligence, and they sometimes get fooled by staging at first. They are tenacious, however, so they usually get at the truth eventually. The OPD's initial working theory was a legitimate avenue to consider, but the detective should have kept it to himself instead of running his mouth.
     
  14. PositiveLight

    PositiveLight Active Member

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    Thank you sooo much! That explained a lot that I was curious about!! :tyou:
    I have a lot to learn about this case, but I can understand now why there were problems that hindered the investigation.
     
  15. Questions123

    Questions123 Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible that whoever took her was associated with the residency and had a key or was able to obtain a key to her apartment? I've read in these threads about her condo being used for a showing unauthorised?

    Even if the dead bolt was on with a key used to gain entry you could slide your hand in the gap and unlatch it. Jen could have been having a shower at the time of the person entering. This is all I can think of to explain how she was lured out. Her mobile would be somewhere visible in the apartment hence that is missing and it would allow any additional staging or removal of items to occur or other items to be taken.

    Does anyone know if Jens car had central locking on her car where lights flash on the car if you press it or make a noise when you try to unlock it from afar? Otherwise how did the offender know which car was hers? Her keys probably had the car brand logo stamped on them but still there could have been multiple chevy brand cars parked there. It seems to well organised to just be a random abduction every base seems covered and I dont think that would happen if a stranger just had a brainsnap and killed her there would be more evidence left behind.
     
  16. liz b.

    liz b. Well-Known Member

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    It all would have had to have gone down so quickly. As soon as she got off the phone with her BF. I think this because of the cell pings which seem to have been located about a mile away, in the "shady area", and also the time that the phones went dead. This is IF LE does have the phone(s) pinging in that area. Given the possible speed of the event, I think it has to be connected to the knock on Jennifer's door, which Mr. Kesse said happened while she was on the phone with her BF. Jennifer told her BF she thought it could be her neighbor. Apparently she did not express any fear or apprehension to her BF about the knock on her door. And if it was her neighbor, he was up and around at that time. Yet I have never read that he heard or saw anything unusual that night.

    Why would LE and Jennifer's parents believe this event happened in the morning, assuming that LE has cell pings around the HOTG area from the night before, and then the phones went dead ? I wonder if they have some other video that they've never revealed ? Otherwise, it makes no sense. JMO, though
     
  17. Markybug

    Markybug Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much Truth , that helps visualise things !

    Are the pings definitely from in a car ? I assume the police can judge the manner and speed the mobile changes towers ?

    Also that area reaches right to the mall car park (blue martini )

    Its strange the car is returned within the area it presumably was moving with jenn/mobile phone ?
     
  18. fridaybaker

    fridaybaker Well-Known Member

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    I know this has been hashed over many times here, but I can't get past this: Why park the vehicle so close to the condo? If she had been taken outside the general area (several miles away, say) -WHY risk coming back so close to her condo? Why on earth would anyone want to be anywhere near it? Put the car anywhere else on the face of the earth, rather than near the condo, which seems to me to include so much risk.

    I've thought about this quite a bit, and I'm thinking that everything that happened, happened very, very close to home. My guess is JK was never more than a few blocks away, unless she was eventually removed well after the crime. My guess is that crime happened within a blocks, if not feet, of HOTG.

    Sorry if this is sort of a "nothing" post. I guess I'm just thinking aloud, and my thoughts are often waaaaaay behind everyone else's!
     
  19. shelly111

    shelly111 Active Member

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    i do believe he was hiding in her apt,once jeniffer hanged up the phone and in bed ready to sleep he attacked her.
    Another theory
    He had a key and came to the apt before .
    He could have come to the apt that Monday when Jennifer was at work ,unscrew a little the deadbold latch. Later that night he opened the door as much as he could ,put his hand in and jiggled and unscrewed the deadbolt completly He got in.
     
  20. Shin Masamura

    Shin Masamura Him who is without syntax cast out the 1st pronoun

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    Wow, so much to comment on and Fridaybaker I will address you first. Why? I believe to get back to the Mosiac and possibly leave it in a bad part of Orlando. (I lived a block up from HOTG towards Orange blossom trail.)

    As for the amazing map Truth layed out I will only add two things. 1, when you turn out of the Mosiac, you can only go right, towards the Mall of Millennia. and 2, that 7 Eleven where is the center point of Good/Rough area is set back a good distance from the road and facing John Young. I always felt they should have looked at the side of Publix where the trucks came in because it closer to the sidewalk the dog tracked.

    Also, I wasn't clear on the thought of Texas ave on the board here. Its one of those don't walk around at night areas. Low income ~ check cashing areas not too bad during the day, but not too good. Up the block on Orange Blossom, had alot of prostitution issues as I remember it. I worked at the Florida Mall (not Millennia) and when I got off at 11pm and drove home, if I caught a red light, they would approach my car.. Not saying all area's were bad, but was really douped by the price, palm trees and sun when I moved to that road in 2003.

    *Grandview Apartments is where I lived.. thought it was called something different back then..
     
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