FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[Caffeine]

In regards to the phone powering down, I believe it would only be known when the phone stops working, not how. So in other words, we'd only know the time based on when it stops communicating with the nearest cell tower, I believe.

 

[kemo]

From what I can tell, law enforcement or Homeland Security or anyone else with the proper warrants can get extremely detailed "real time" information from someone's cell phone provider. What is not so clear is what information can a Cell Phone provider obtain about past activity when the phone was not being monitored. Certainly they can furnish the time and cell tower(s) used for any incoming or outgoing call. What I can not verify is whether or not the cell phone provider can obtain a record of what towers a phone that was "on" but not in use had "pinged" off of and can they tell the exact time the phone was powered off (or out of range, had its battery removed etc).

I went back to the case of Adnan Syed as documented by the podcast "Serial". The Cell Record of where he was ( or more correctly, what cell tower was used) when each incoming or outgoing call was made was the primary evidence used against him. The record of what towers his phone was pinging off of when he was not using it would have been invaluable but that information was not introduced. I would assume because it wasn't available. I am not sure his phone was ever powered off so I don't know about that information.

If Jennifer's phone was actually powered off a or around 10:40, it comes very close to certainty that the action was related to her disappearance. There is the small chance that she powered off because she was angry at her boyfriend but this would be an unusually irresponsible act on her part.

If the phone was just not used after that time, it doen't tell us much of anything.

 

[htiff]

From what I can tell, law enforcement or Homeland Security or anyone else with the proper warrants can get extremely detailed "real time" information from someone's cell phone provider. What is not so clear is what information can a Cell Phone provider obtain about past activity when the phone was not being monitored. Certainly they can furnish the time and cell tower(s) used for any incoming or outgoing call. What I can not verify is whether or not the cell phone provider can obtain a record of what towers a phone that was "on" but not in use had "pinged" off of and can they tell the exact time the phone was powered off (or out of range, had its battery removed etc).

I went back to the case of Adnan Syed as documented by the podcast "Serial". The Cell Record of where he was ( or more correctly, what cell tower was used) when each incoming or outgoing call was made was the primary evidence used against him. The record of what towers his phone was pinging off of when he was not using it would have been invaluable but that information was not introduced. I would assume because it wasn't available. I am not sure his phone was ever powered off so I don't know about that information.

If Jennifer's phone was actually powered off a or around 10:40, it comes very close to certainty that the action was related to her disappearance. There is the small chance that she powered off because she was angry at her boyfriend but this would be an unusually irresponsible act on her part.

If the phone was just not used after that time, it doen't tell us much of anything.

It may depend on the service used. Different companies maintain different records. Also what towers they either leased or owned, at that time, can factor in. How the antennas were configured.

There are a lot of variables.

Because LE appears to have gotten phone records somewhat quickly, after JK went missing, these records probably do contain a great deal of info.

Even predictable people can do unpredictable things. More so than the JK's phone pinging or not pinging after 10:40 PM, I wonder about the mace left on the kitchen counter.

She always carried mace, yet it wasn't taken with her that day. Was there just not enough room in her purse, or was she not on her game that morning? Distracted? Or was there a knock on her door early that morning, that because it was morning, she might not have been afraid to answer?

I don't know if the mace being left behind, points more to a night abduction, but it's one of the first things that her mother reports was concerning to her.

 

[liz b.]

One question I have : Was an interior light/lights left on when the first person on the scene entered the condo ? I think if JK had gone out for any reason that night, intending to return, she would have left a light/lights on inside for when she returned. jmo

 

[liz b.]

It may depend on the service used. Different companies maintain different records. Also what towers they either leased or owned, at that time, can factor in. How the antennas were configured.

There are a lot of variables.

Because LE appears to have gotten phone records somewhat quickly, after JK went missing, these records probably do contain a great deal of info.

Even predictable people can do unpredictable things. More so than the JK's phone pinging or not pinging after 10:40 PM, I wonder about the mace left on the kitchen counter.

She always carried mace, yet it wasn't taken with her that day. Was there just not enough room in her purse, or was she not on her game that morning? Distracted? Or was there a knock on her door early that morning, that because it was morning, she might not have been afraid to answer?

I don't know if the mace being left behind, points more to a night abduction, but it's one of the first things that her mother reports was concerning to her.

RBBM : how true that is... I have wondered if JK might have been seeing someone else, perhaps someone she had just started seeing, and didn't want to tell anyone about at first...jmo

 

[htiff]

One question I have : Was an interior light/lights left on when the first person on the scene entered the condo ? I think if JK had gone out for any reason that night, intending to return, she would have left a light/lights on inside for when she returned. jmo

That's a really good point. I don't recall ever seeing any report on this.

 

[rd_jfc]

It may depend on the service used. Different companies maintain different records. Also what towers they either leased or owned, at that time, can factor in. How the antennas were configured.

There are a lot of variables.

Because LE appears to have gotten phone records somewhat quickly, after JK went missing, these records probably do contain a great deal of info.

Even predictable people can do unpredictable things. More so than the JK's phone pinging or not pinging after 10:40 PM, I wonder about the mace left on the kitchen counter.

She always carried mace, yet it wasn't taken with her that day. Was there just not enough room in her purse, or was she not on her game that morning? Distracted? Or was there a knock on her door early that morning, that because it was morning, she might not have been afraid to answer?

I don't know if the mace being left behind, points more to a night abduction, but it's one of the first things that her mother reports was concerning to her.

This also applies to going to work, correct?

If she routinely carried mace, she would definitely have taken it with her going out after 10, and yet there it is. More than one mace?

 

[rd_jfc]

From what I can tell, law enforcement or Homeland Security or anyone else with the proper warrants can get extremely detailed "real time" information from someone's cell phone provider. What is not so clear is what information can a Cell Phone provider obtain about past activity when the phone was not being monitored. Certainly they can furnish the time and cell tower(s) used for any incoming or outgoing call. What I can not verify is whether or not the cell phone provider can obtain a record of what towers a phone that was "on" but not in use had "pinged" off of and can they tell the exact time the phone was powered off (or out of range, had its battery removed etc).

I went back to the case of Adnan Syed as documented by the podcast "Serial". The Cell Record of where he was ( or more correctly, what cell tower was used) when each incoming or outgoing call was made was the primary evidence used against him. The record of what towers his phone was pinging off of when he was not using it would have been invaluable but that information was not introduced. I would assume because it wasn't available. I am not sure his phone was ever powered off so I don't know about that information.

If Jennifer's phone was actually powered off a or around 10:40, it comes very close to certainty that the action was related to her disappearance. There is the small chance that she powered off because she was angry at her boyfriend but this would be an unusually irresponsible act on her part.

If the phone was just not used after that time, it doen't tell us much of anything.

I spent a few hours doing additional searching. This is a "hot" search area and extremely difficult to get answers that don't involve the privacy interests, warrant or not, etc. etc. that fill search results.

All data is fed back to the providers. The only question is what various data is retained for how long, if at all. The communication to towers of a cell phone making it the servicing tower and updating it (cell phone location updates) was in particular what I thought providers could search to determine connection of cell phones without any calls being made.

It turns out there is a technical description for this data and various retention lengths of it, from 3 months (T-Mobile) to 7 years (AT&T). The data is referred to as cell tower dumps. This is all cell phones connected to a tower during a period of time.

You can't determine what tower a cell phone was communicating with without interrogating every tower records, but in a situation like Jennifer's, a certain location for a limited amount of time, tower dumps could be done for surrounding towers. I don;t know what the Orlando Police did but if you asked the cell provider(s) involved about the two cell phones, that's what they could look at.

Note that this is different from cell phone call records which are for phone calls and SMS and retained for years. Those records also would have been searched but nothing if no phone calls made or received after the 10pm phone call.

 

[Myserty64]

Gracie2112 had this powerful 'line' as part of a post above.

Even predictable people can do unpredictable things.

Isn't that the truth.

Is it time to restart the investigation from day one?
Re-interview everyone to see if stories or alibis have changed.

Even reinvigorate the case with an 'out of left field approach.'

I vaguely remember a murder mystery where there were footprints in the snow. Nobody could work out who they belonged too.
It turned out it was the postman.

Everybody saw him but nobody noticed him.

Is the perpetrator hiding in plain sight.

 

[JetsFan24]

I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on this case in relation to a timeline. We know that the panic started to set in between 11AM and 12PM for those close to her. What time was the welfare check done on her apartment? Was the property manager who did so thoroughly investigated? He would afterall have keys to the apartment, no?

The reason I ask, is because a morning abduction means she was abducted between 7-7:30AM. The this person would have had to carry out motive (sexual presumably), and then disposed of her body in the light of day within 3 or so hours and then park her car by 12:50 PM?

Another reason why I point to a night time abduction. A so called 'flawless' crime can likely be done from 10:40PM-12:50PM the next day. To pull it off in 3-5 hours after a morning abduction during daylight seems wild.

The lights on/off are an important question I think. Also wonder if the apartment receives enough light to not need lights in the morning. This could surely be an important clue. Seems silly to ask but I wonder if light switches were dusted for fingerprints.

Also if intent is carried out in the apartment or she was incapacitated immediately upon opening the door can't that indicate no struggle? Like if she opens the door and immediately faces blunt force trauma or something.

 

[Markybug]

Could it be both?

Ie , a abduction/ home invasion at night , but jenn doesn't leave the apartment till early morning? (Alive/deceased)


Mark.

 

[forestpuppy]

I've been listening to the Podcast.. and this is probably a far far stretch since it's been over a decade and it's possible that someone else posted this somewhere ( I haven't read through every post)... But if "Lisa's" story checks out, is there any possibility of obtaining the video footage from the jewelry store? I feel like all jewelry stores would have a video camera.. and if not, what about other stores near it? Would they have anything? Was the store in a plaza or near something else that might have footage? Forgive me if this has been said or if it's a silly thought.. new here and super intrigued by this case.

 

[Force Ten]

I've been listening to the Podcast.. and this is probably a far far stretch since it's been over a decade and it's possible that someone else posted this somewhere ( I haven't read through every post)... But if "Lisa's" story checks out, is there any possibility of obtaining the video footage from the jewelry store? I feel like all jewelry stores would have a video camera.. and if not, what about other stores near it? Would they have anything? Was the store in a plaza or near something else that might have footage? Forgive me if this has been said or if it's a silly thought.. new here and super intrigued by this case.

No not from 11 years prior. Video is not kept for more than a few days before being recorded over. She didn't discover the case of JK until late last year I think. In my opinion, her story has validity but I was blown away at the extreme detail of her account. I'm not sure if she embellished some of it or she has a photographic memory. It's hard for me to believe someone could remember all that detail so many years later.

 

[JnRyan]

I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on this case in relation to a timeline. We know that the panic started to set in between 11AM and 12PM for those close to her. What time was the welfare check done on her apartment? Was the property manager who did so thoroughly investigated? He would afterall have keys to the apartment, no?

The reason I ask, is because a morning abduction means she was abducted between 7-7:30AM. The this person would have had to carry out motive (sexual presumably), and then disposed of her body in the light of day within 3 or so hours and then park her car by 12:50 PM?

Another reason why I point to a night time abduction. A so called 'flawless' crime can likely be done from 10:40PM-12:50PM the next day. To pull it off in 3-5 hours after a morning abduction during daylight seems wild.

The lights on/off are an important question I think. Also wonder if the apartment receives enough light to not need lights in the morning. This could surely be an important clue. Seems silly to ask but I wonder if light switches were dusted for fingerprints.

Also if intent is carried out in the apartment or she was incapacitated immediately upon opening the door can't that indicate no struggle? Like if she opens the door and immediately faces blunt force trauma or something.

The lights on or off!?!? I hadn't thought of that one. That would be a question for the property manager as I believe he was the first one in her condo that morning. As far as dusting for prints, I believe LE did not process her condo. The reason given was that too many people had been in her condo that Tuesday. (Personally, I believe LE didn't take it seriously in the beginning. By the time the light bulb started to come on in OPD's consciousness, they reallized they waited too long and by THEN too many people had been through her condo.)

 

[JnRyan]

rd: how do you know the 10:40pm time is true? The most recent information from Jennifer's mother says it is not. Is Mrs. Kesse lying?

We have conflicting stories. A few years ago on Jennifer Kesse's guestbook on her webpage, Mr. Kesse supposedly gave us the 10:40 PM time frame. Then Mrs. Kesse stated on the podcast they had never been given any information as to when the phones went inactive - either turned off or other such action.

 

[JetsFan24]

The lights on or off!?!? I hadn't thought of that one. That would be a question for the property manager as I believe he was the first one in her condo that morning. As far as dusting for prints, I believe LE did not process her condo. The reason given was that too many people had been in her condo that Tuesday. (Personally, I believe LE didn't take it seriously in the beginning. By the time the light bulb started to come on in OPD's consciousness, they reallized they waited too long and by THEN too many people had been through her condo.)

Credit to @liz b for that's question. She posed it first.

I can't believe that police departments allow a crime scene to be so contaminated to the point where it isn't unusable. It's such a shame that I feel like in tons of missing persons cases they are often not taken seriously in the beginning and as a result things are overlooked or something like this happens.

 

[Markybug]

Didn't realise that there was a registered sex offender in the same block as jenn...living with his mother. Was spoke to , but even at 9am was drunk/on drugs , so ruled out? Deceased now apparently.

 

[Markybug]

gf.me/u/bqjw2i

Not mine , but seems a nice thought.


Mark.

 

[Rosa913]

Whoever he may be who did that to JK, I do believe she knew him...

 

[liz b.]

It would provide perfect opportunity. The abductor may have been watching her for some time and know her airtight routine. They also would have know how guarded she was going to her car. So she may have been abducted straight from her apartment, in the middle of the night, right out of bed.

I can't go with the paying someone else to ditch the car as I would think this many years later, they would come forward. Unless, they were involved with the abduction or think that they will be charged as well.

An he was the first person to actually enter the condo after the family called. What did he see ? Had JK made coffee? eaten breakfast ? So many important details. IF ONLY it d been LE to go in the condo first...