FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[shelly111]

drew kesse installed a deadbolt on jennifer's door and the one you only open from inside.
unless jennifer herself unlock it from inside,no one from outside can enter the apt.
This leads me to believe the only way the abductor could entered the apt is only when jennifer was not home.
He had a copy of the keys.
Drew said he never changed the old locks,he was going to , but somehow it was delayed.
He opened the door and hide somewhere in the apt.
we know jennifer was on the phone most of the evening . After the last call ennifer went to the bathroom, she was going to take her contacts off and going to sleep.That's when he attacked her.
maybe he was hiding in the foyer.
we know jenniffer was very cautious person, most likely she didn't open the door at night to whoever knocked on the door.
we know she was very tired ,most likely she didn't go out and she said to Robb she is going to bed soon.
i do believe he was already there when jennifer came hom that night.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I believe Jennifer's co-worker has gotten away with murder for twelve years now. I think he staged things and then got himself arrested on purpose in order create an alibi--which worked only becuse the OPD was too stupid to figure out the real timeline.

I respectfully snipped the part that will get our comments deleted if we insist on mentioning that cesspool of misinformation.

The bolded by me is all over the internet--I'm simply asking: do you know that he was actually arrested the week before? Because that has been verified and is locatable and linkable via a respected link source.

If you are choosing to ignore it, I don't see your point, but carry on and have fun.

But, just in case you didn't know.

Anyway, it is unknown if he was also late the day Jennifer went missing. The person who filed the complaint--as read out by Gurd on the podcast, mentioned that he was late for work on the 24th, too; but there were many false statements in that complaint. One thing it is not, is a source of fact. Although interesting.

 

[Truth Prevails]

drew kesse installed a deadbolt on jennifer's door and the one you only open from inside.
unless jennifer herself unlock it from inside,no one from outside can enter the apt.
This leads me to believe the only way the abductor could entered the apt is only when jennifer was not home.
He had a copy of the keys.
Drew said he never changed the old locks,he was going to , but somehow it was delayed.
He opened the door and hide somewhere in the apt.
we know jennifer was on the phone most of the evening . After the last call ennifer went to the bathroom, she was going to take her contacts off and going to sleep.That's when he attacked her.
maybe he was hiding in the foyer.
we know jenniffer was very cautious person, most likely she didn't open the door at night to whoever knocked on the door.
we know she was very tired ,most likely she didn't go out and she said to Robb she is going to bed soon.
i do believe he was already there when jennifer came hom that night.

It's eerie/creepy to think of him hiding in her apartment, but I've heard of this before in other cases; so I do find it plausible.

Where it goes wrong for me, though, is in the removing of Jenn and the cell phones, and the moving of her vehicle.

In any other cases I can find with similarities to what you mentioned, the person is discarded and left in the apartment/condo/self-contained dwelling. No reason to move her car.

But in this case, it's been 12 years and not so much as an earring of Jennifer's has been discovered--that we know of, anyway.

And there are still those pesky cell phones--what relatively intelligent perpetrator would take those things if he didn't have to, knowing they could ping his location.

 

[KayCherry]

What I find particularly odd, is that the first day she is missing from work, they call her parents? I have worked in big companies an small, if I did not show up - no-one NO-ONE is calling my parents to say I did not show up. Maybe after a week, but not after 1/2/ or 3 even days. I find that small piece particularly odd... Possibly it has already been discussed.

 

[Ozoner]

I respectfully snipped the part that will get our comments deleted if we insist on mentioning that cesspool of misinformation.

The bolded by me is all over the internet--I'm simply asking: do you know that he was actually arrested the week before? Because that has been verified and is locatable and linkable via a respected link source.

If you are choosing to ignore it, I don't see your point, but carry on and have fun.

But, just in case you didn't know.

Anyway, it is unknown if he was also late the day Jennifer went missing. The person who filed the complaint--as read out by Gurd on the podcast, mentioned that he was late for work on the 24th, too; but there were many false statements in that complaint. One thing it is not, is a source of fact. Although interesting.

I still don't know it because I haven't seen anything conclusive. Other posts upthread (possibly way up thread) suggested that his alibi was that he was under arrest for having torn up a traffic ticket. (Why he wasn't fired for that is beyond me; that conduct would be grounds for dismissal without severance pay anywhere that I've ever worked.)

It really doesn't make much difference; the bottom line is that the OPD has focused on a morning abduction, which I think is incorrect. So far as we know, the co-worker does not have an alibi for the night Jennifer vanished. Whether he was under arrest the next morning or at work the next morning doesn't really matter if the abduction didn't happen in the morning. It seems like he was cleared way too easily by the OPD. Or maybe they actually know it was him, but they're playing a game of cat and mouse, hoping he'll let his guard down and brag or re-visit the location where he left Jennifer's body.

 

[Truth Prevails]

A couple of problems. One, as I understand from posts through the years, the family did not treat the condo as a crime scene and having done that, one, no one else is going to treat it as a crime scene if you aren't, and two, once disrupted, made over etc., it is no longer a crime scene that can be worked.

Now hindsight is 20/20, and part of that is wishing it had been treated as a crime scene from everyone and processed as such in the beginning.

Second, just as in Chandra Levy case, police would not take the disappearance seriously. They would have to take it seriously immediately and they didn't. I don't know when, maybe when the car was found two days later.

BBM Yes. As usual, you have it exactly right.

The family are not even certain if the bathroom door(s) were opened or closed when they first arrived which should have been an important point in underscoring their theory of the abduction time being in the morning, considering shower drying time.

Did they document the condition of anything in the condo with photographs when they first arrived? We don't know for certain. One can hope, because this was something they could have done on their own.

They had slept there for two nights before Jennifer's car was found. What could LE have done with that condo at that point?

Look for blood drops? She could have cut her own finger at some point. Anyone with any excuse for ever being in her condo could have used the excuse that they accidentally cut themselves by mistake at any point. DNA is not dated--they can't tell how old it is. Also, I'm sure the Kesses would have mentioned blood drops and/or the very obvious smell of chemical cleaners. Surely? I wonder when they changed the sheets, bedclothes, etc?

They lived there for eight months.

Law enforcement made mistakes in this case and they have admitted it--but this one wasn't all on them.

 

[liz b.]

LE could have processed the condo by using luminol. To detect cleaned up blood, usually blood spatter. Possibly might find small amounts of tissue, small hair clumps. Not to find the killer like in a TV show, but to determine that someone had probably been injured or killed there. This is why LE agencies do this every day during their investigations. Finding evidence of cleaned up blood/blood splatter would usually be only one of several pieces of evidence LE uses when building a case, before they confront their suspect.

 

[Markybug]

Small query re the workers on site.

Were they directly employed or sub-contractors?

For example , a group of painters , with a van , could have the means and ability to abduct someone quickly and cleanly. They could take someone away in the vehicle (parked next to jenns car in the morning, open sliding door)on the pretext of going for supplies / paint etc?

I dont know what the supervision would be like for them , if any ?

Just a thought. (This would be a AM scenario)

 

[shelly111]

i think he wanted to erase any evidence this crime happanned at the mosaic. He abducted jennifer to wherever he took her and took the two phones and other things missing from the apt,returned later that night to remove the car from the complex.
He had the whole night to clean ,stage the apt.
He could have also went back to the apt in tbe morning
,it wouldn't be suspious to see him near jennifer's apt ,
him being one of the maintance men,painters,landscapers at that time.




This is why after he abducted jennifer he removed the car from the complex.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Small query re the workers on site.

Were they directly employed or sub-contractors?

For example , a group of painters , with a van , could have the means and ability to abduct someone quickly and cleanly. They could take someone away in the vehicle (parked next to jenns car in the morning, open sliding door)on the pretext of going for supplies / paint etc?

I dont know what the supervision would be like for them , if any ?

Just a thought. (This would be a AM scenario)

I think there were both "directly employed" workers and "sub-contractors" on site during that big apartment to condo conversion. I wouldn't expect there to be much supervision. They are pretty much assigned to an area and expected to get the required work done. Some people are faster workers than others, so they may be able to fit a little spare time into their work day without being noticed.

Definitely "painters"--Mr. Kesse has pointed that out.

I have problems believing that Jennifer would have fallen victim to the "van parked close to her car scenario". That's a common ruse that almost all women alone watch for. And Jennifer was smarter than average, more informed, more dedicated to keeping herself safe.

But having said that, something happened. An extremely clever perpetrator; or she simply had a human moment and let her guard down--I don't know, but something.

So, this is a decent possibility.

Along the same line of thinking, is the scenario that "a painter" (or substitute your choice of "construction" worker), was in the hallway that morning when she left for work and pulled her into the empty condo across the hall--doing whatever; taking her out later. Leaving her bound and gagged while he ran down to move her vehicle to buy himself time.

This isn't a theory that really flies for me--but I can't find one that does.

All I know is that Jennifer is gone and has been for 12 years, and I think law enforcement has virtually stopped looking.

And that's a shame. Plain and simple.

 

[Markybug]

Maybe it was common tho Truth ? Constantly vans and works vehicles parked around , so she would be relaxed/ at ease ?

Or something simple like letting her tire down and offering assistance? Wonder what her spare tire was like..?

 

[Markybug]

I think there were both "directly employed" workers and "sub-contractors" on site during that big apartment to condo conversion. I wouldn't expect there to be much supervision. They are pretty much assigned to an area and expected to get the required work done. Some people are faster workers than others, so they may be able to fit a little spare time into their work day without being noticed.

Definitely "painters"--Mr. Kesse has pointed that out.

I have problems believing that Jennifer would have fallen victim to the "van parked close to her car scenario". That's a common ruse that almost all women alone watch for. And Jennifer was smarter than average, more informed, more dedicated to keeping herself safe.

But having said that, something happened. An extremely clever perpetrator; or she simply had a human moment and let her guard down--I don't know, but something.

So, this is a decent possibility.

Along the same line of thinking, is the scenario that "a painter" (or substitute your choice of "construction" worker), was in the hallway that morning when she left for work and pulled her into the empty condo across the hall--doing whatever; taking her out later. Leaving her bound and gagged while he ran down to move her vehicle to buy himself time.

This isn't a theory that really flies for me--but I can't find one that does.

All I know is that Jennifer is gone and has been for 12 years, and I think law enforcement has virtually stopped looking.

And that's a shame. Plain and simple.

Hall scenario is a good one too , especially as the flat opposition had no carpet when checked?

 

[Truth Prevails]

i think he wanted to erase any evidence this crime happanned at the mosaic. He abducted jennifer to wherever he took her and took the two phones and other things missing from the apt,returned later that night to remove the car from the complex.
He had the whole night to clean ,stage the apt.
He could have also went back to the apt in tbe morning
,it wouldn't be suspious to see him near jennifer's apt ,
him being one of the maintance men,painters,landscapers at that time.




This is why after he abducted jennifer he removed the car from the complex.

Your scenario is complex, but I personally agree that a high level of complexity was involved.

It's hard to debate what was in the slime's mind; so, this could be closer than we think.

He has had 12 years to take his bows and run his victory laps.

He succeeded so completely in not only taking Jennifer, but in taking and keeping Jennifer from her parents; that I believe it was all part of some grand, sick and evil, plan--well thought out in advance; and almost perfectly executed.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Maybe it was common tho Truth ? Constantly vans and works vehicles parked around , so she would be relaxed/ at ease ?

Or something simple like letting her tire down and offering assistance? Wonder what her spare tire was like..?

Good points. Relaxed, distracted--maybe thinking about the meeting at work. Except when Rob would call her before 9 AM, her cell phone would go directly to voice mail which would take a number of hours without power--possibly 8. Jennifer's cell phone had never gone directly to voice mail in all the ten years she had one. But on that morning, on that fateful morning when Jennifer Kesse vanished--we are supposed to believe it is not evidence of anything. I don't know about that. I smell a rat.

Really good, original point about the spare tire. I really appreciate it.

Hall scenario is a good one too , especially as the flat opposition had no carpet when checked?

Yes, the Kesses confirm "no carpet" when Logan checked--which has never been confirmed with a time. My understanding is he check within a couple of hours of his arrival. The Kesses say LE also checked, but are unable to give a time for that, either.

 

[Markybug]

A thought re a Painter , as one said to police that jenn had told him to lock up after some work in her flat , which was flatly denied by her dad , could this be actually true? Someone outwardly pleasant and charming, unlike possibly their coworkers , but with a long term gameplan in mind?

 

[Questions123]

I have read on another forum that on Jennifers floor only 2 out of 4 of the condos were occupied at the time. What is also interesting is that if you excluded her condo as one of the two the only other one occupied was by a neighbour who was out of town at the time. So who was the person that knocked on Jens door late at night if it wasnt the neighbour? Can it actually be confirmed she looked through her peephole at the time she was on of the phone or did she just assume it was her neighbour without actually checking?

I find this places a male very close to Jennifer albeit on the other side of a door right when she has her last known contact with anyone that can actually be corroborated.

 

[Questions123]

And if this is true then she was living on an empty floor that evening. Who would know that information or perhaps it was just random luck? Bo the bloodhound did trace a sent back to her door so I really do believe the person who did this at least made it to her front door.

 

[Truth Prevails]

A thought re a Painter , as one said to police that jenn had told him to lock up after some work in her flat , which was flatly denied by her dad , could this be actually true? Someone outwardly pleasant and charming, unlike possibly their coworkers , but with a long term gameplan in mind?

Possibly something close, here.

Considering the painter--even caught in a lie and managing to still pass a lie detector test--would later move on to being convicted of sexual assault, raises interest.

I should check my information, but I remember Rob discussing also being on the phone for a safe call with Jennifer during one of those trips she had to make, usually on her lunch break. He said he gently cautioned her (my words) that even though they spoke Spanish to her English, it was possible that they understood every word she was saying.

I can see a "painter" with a sexual assault in his future, seething over how--in his mind--he felt Jennifer treated him and plotting his revenge. Would he have carried it out? Maybe.

And it didn't have to be in the AM. There was nothing stopping him from coming back at night. Or simply remaining after a work day.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I have read on another forum that on Jennifers floor only 2 out of 4 of the condos were occupied at the time. What is also interesting is that if you excluded her condo as one of the two the only other one occupied was by a neighbour who was out of town at the time. So who was the person that knocked on Jens door late at night if it wasnt the neighbour? Can it actually be confirmed she looked through her peephole at the time she was on of the phone or did she just assume it was her neighbour without actually checking?

I find this places a male very close to Jennifer albeit on the other side of a door right when she has her last known contact with anyone that can actually be corroborated.

Bolding and underscoring by me. This is only rumor.

No time was given except "Monday night"; no information as to how Mr. Kesse knows there was a knock on the door; no information given as to how he knows what Jennifer believed, no information given as to how he knows it was her male upstairs neighbor; no information given as to how he knows she didn't answer. Nothing.

Mrs. Kesse later and separately confirmed that Jennifer's door had a peep hole--not that she looked through it. Nothing more.

Interesting to question--why put this out there with nothing more? Just tossing us "internet crazies" a bone to pick?

The quote below is not snipped in any way. It is Mr. Kesse's full statement on the knock. The link is there for verification.

At about 9 minutes in:
Mr. Kesse: Now there was a knock on her door that Monday night and she believed it was her neighbor upstairs. It was a guy. She didn’t answer it.
https://audioboom.com/posts/6396347-unit-2226

 

[Markybug]

Possibly something close, here.

Considering the painter--even caught in a lie and managing to still pass a lie detector test--would later move on to being convicted of sexual assault, raises interest.

I should check my information, but I remember Rob discussing also being on the phone for a safe call with Jennifer during one of those trips she had to make, usually on her lunch break. He said he gently cautioned her (my words) that even though they spoke Spanish to her English, it was possible that they understood every word she was saying.

I can see a "painter" with a sexual assault in his future, seething over how--in his mind--he felt Jennifer treated him and plotting his revenge. Would he have carried it out? Maybe.

And it didn't have to be in the AM. There was nothing stopping him from coming back at night. Or simply remaining after a work day.

I was more thinking a worker actually being left alone to lock up , if he falsely gained jenns trust , but i think is extremely unlikely, plus if it did happen , she would mention it to family.

But as a possible POI , a painter (for example) would have access to all areas ? access to a van ? possibly staying on site ? and with a young , attractive woman , basically all alone in the block..

And with what you mentioned re the attention to jenn and maybe being more aware of English than thought , it’s entirely possible.