Discussion in 'Jennifer Kesse' started by CW, Jun 29, 2007.
great question. probably in a landfill although it's probably been burned by now
Interesting theory. If it were my loved one, I'd have checked every surveillance camera in the city, especially on the main roads near where the HOTG area, there must be some footage of the car driving by.
Also I can't believe they haven't dug up the entire wooded area behind the Mosaic condos. If it were my sister, I know Id've gotten a shovel and dig dig dig until there's a zero percent chance anyone's buried there.
I know everyone is frustrated with the lack of answers in this case, but please keep in mind that family and friends of Jennifer Kesse do read the various forums. Please keep this in mind when you comment. Thanks
I was just answering the question posed by myserty. feel free to add your own.
Oh and if the family and/or friends of Jennifer Kesse are reading.....DON'T TURN DOWN EQUASEARCH!!!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's the link from Flareresident.
http://flaresident.com/jk1/Huntington on the Green.html
Thanks for offering to do the shower experiment.
My take is that just about every shower in America would be dry within 3 or 4 hours. So, whose to say that either Mrs. Kesse got it wrong, or someone took a shower at Jk's place. Either way, in mind, the shower information is probably useless. Unless, Joyce remembers exactly how much water was left, and where it was. Which, is very unlikley.
SS: The pictures are very deceiving. The best way to get a view of the scene, is the aerial shots at Jk's website. In the left column, there is an entry, "aerial view", click on it, and it shows the pool, the gates, and so forth.
To answer your question. The photo's of the pOI do have a brick wall behind the POI. This is not a building. It appears to simply be a 10 foot tall or so, brick wall, to break up the view of Texas to the complex. Maybe, for decorative purposes, or to make the complex look classier, or to keep people from viewing the pool from the street.
So, The POI parks, in front of where he parks, are tons of apartments, and buildings, and a walkway, that he avoids. Instead, he follows the same road he entered, and rounds the pool, and eventuall swings right around the pool in front of the poolgate and camera.
I studied the pictures last night, and I estimate the camera that took the photo's of the POI are about 20 feet high, and about 40 feet away from the POI. Given this, and the height of the gate, and the difference in height of the plane of the gate, and where the POi is walking, all made a "perfect storm" for someone to get an "optical illusion", and think the POI is short. imo
I do recall the mention of a body in the woods, but, I never did read the article. Sorry
yes, you do have some wonderful ideas. Please visit more often and share your views. Of course, we agree on most things, maybe, that is why I enjoy your visits so much lol.
So, are you set on your theory that the POI picked Jk at random?
At this point, how can we tell one way or another?
If it was a random encounter, imo, it must have occurred at Mosiac, or the POI would have no way of knowing which building was JK's. Yet, according to the dog, he walked straight to it.
Why can't your theory about the imposter, LE, work, without JK mailing the package?
I don't see why one has to be dependent on the other.
Some of these imposters, drive cars that are retired police cars, or have security cars, and can pull people over, and attack them.
Another trick, is to just slightly hit someone's bumper, and get them to pull over, and then attack them. I seriously doubt that happened.
I appreciate your work, and am on your side regarding the possibility of an imposter, or LE. However, I just don't see why Jk had to stop at a mailbox place, in order for you to be right.
For example. Let's say, hypothetically, that JK stops every morning, like clockwork, at a local Starbucks, and buys a Latte, or whatever the yuppies call it, and this guy notices this routine. He stakes out the joint, and pretends to be LE, and snatches her. Why couldn't that have happened?
that is the million dollar question.
I think finding the POI is the key, and he will lead you to JK.
I had a thought:
I wonder if before JK was abducted, if Mosaic had used a private firm, who drive around from one complex to another, throughout the day and night, and respond to calls. You see their cars in traffic, have the lights, and say, security, or such.
It is quite common where I reside. Most places would rather handle the problems internally, than have police reports of disturbances at their complexes.
So, what if, one of these patrol guys, catches notice of JK one day.
He is never stationed at Mosaic, but frequents it, in his rounds.
Through this, he can spy on her, without anyone knowing what he is up to.
Not only that, but, nobody would suspect him, since he wouldn't be in the category of suspects.
So, he notices Jk is gone, or who is to say there weren't complaints that weekend of parties, or noise, and he responded, or heard about it.
Once, I went to a game at our local professional arena. Coming out, LE was directing traffic, and i thought nothing of it. Later on, after this case, I took a good look at the guy, he wasn't a cop, but, a private security guard dressed "exactly" like a cop. Not only that, but, they conceal their waist, so, people can't see that they are rent-a-cops, and don't carry guns, but carry mace or stun guns instead.
Then, on that day, he makes his move. He is doing his rounds, and notices JK walking to her car. He can't take Jk in the work car, since it probably has GPS tracking, and is noticeable, so, instead, he is forced to use JK's.
Once the Kesse's alert Mosaic, they would probably call their security company, and have them come over, and check out the complex. He receives this call, and knows the heat is on, and dumps JK's car, hops the wall, and comes upon the scene.
Of course, this is "hypothetical". We don't know if Mosaic used such a place, or if Mosaic had a guard at the guardhouse that day. But, could it have happened?
It would explain just about everything. Rd's uniform patch, the tracking dogs, why nobody saw anything, why he knew about technology and LE methods, why he knew about the shortcut.
left thanks I'm not posting much not due to lack of interest but mainly because I don't have an awful lot to add at the moment.
I have my theories and feel I have taken them as far as I can without further evidence, I will however continue to chip in as and when or if I get a good idea.
This case interests/concerns me so much I'm pretty sure if I lived in Orlando I would investigate myself as a full time hobby.
Excellent theory left and one that should defiintely be looked at.
Is it me or does anyone feel that if this case is ever resolved there will be one piece of evidence that has been skipped over that has sent the enquiry the wrong way?
It could be the height being wrong for instance and therefore everyone over 5ft 5in has been discounted.
I just get the feeling that one day something will be highlighted where a suspect has been passed over or not interrogated enough.
I really still think this person is right under LE's nose.
Who knows they may even have a strong suspect but have zero evidence?
Is this possible? This may explain the lack of information in the public domain.
I don't know well enough the relationship that OPD would have with the family but would they share all they knew? I'm guessing not because if someone told me they thought they knew who had kidnapped my daughter then I would probably take the law into my own hands.
That is a danger that LE would have with sharing to much in general and not just the family.
hi left, my response to UK was not that in either case it's random, it was that in either case it's an unknown assailant, away from the Mosaic random, if at the Mosaic a stalker who never contacted her in such a way to be memorable enough to mention to anyone.
yes, I know some will say she didn't want to worry anyone, but she already had commented on the workers, already voiced her concern, and if an individual spooked her she would have mentioned that too.
just a nice "welcome to the neighborhood, want to go out with me", she says "no" and doesn't mention it, and he kills her out of rejected obsession?
Normally couldn't be ruled out, was the main focus for a year and a half, along with a 5'4" illegal immigrant construction worker, but now we have a suspect wearing a deputy bike patrol uniform with a tie down taser holster.
At some point people have to take a good look and say Sheriff's shoulder patches and taser holster with leg straps and biking shoes and helmet changes the status quo. Being able to see his face, albeit with sunglasses, changes the status quo.
And that is a random assault by an LE, imposter or real, when Jennifer went off her normal route and schedule to send a package that she promised she would do.
I'll think I'll leave it there, will add to it if I find something else.
BB, I have Adobe on a computer that crashed and I agree, could help to view them with that. I need to get to that and some other things on that PC. Will let you know if I find something.
The shower experiment is currently ongoing now. I will check it every 15 minutes until it is dry, so we can get this out of the way. May not matter, but at least we will have an answer and not have to discuss it further.
Thanks, Left, for the explanation of that wall. The pics on Jenn's site are what I have been looking at. You have to look very closely to find the walls which have probably their logo on the outside and decorative. Makes sense now.
UK, they stated early on there was no one working security in the manned booth. I found no other mention of a security company coming on until after Jenn went missing, but I will go back and doublecheck that.
Cat will have to physically go to the SPCA or someone who lives in FL. I am too far away as well. I doubt they will give us that information over the phone as to their uniforms there.
You are not alone thinking that LE's case went wrong on that very lead of the POI's height or skipped over (because they did not 'sweep' her condo before others contaminated the scene nor did they do it afterwards).
The case is considered cold even if LE hasn't admitted it. I ran across an article last night and LE stated there were only 60 leads initially which they felt was a seriously low number in a high profile case such as this (which tells me this case went cold very quickly). The playing cards are for "cold cases".
Actually it seems logical that Jennifers scent would be in Mosiac -and it seems logical to me that if the dog lost the scent, it might have gotten a wift of scent from mosiac.
Nice SS! Good work!
Time started: 12:00 p.m.
Conditions: Outside Temperature-83 Degrees, Humidity-80%, Dewpoint-76 Degrees, Inside Temperature-72 Degrees with AC on. Bathroom door open.
1 hour: Still wet on all surfaces.
2 hours: The shower tile on sides are drying, but there are still droplets of water on everything else and the bottom is still noticeably wet.
3 hours: The shower tiles on sides are completely dry, the droplets of water are only on the underside of the metal spout, soapdish, towel rack besides the larger puddles of water located on the bottom of the shower.
3.25 hours: No change.
3.5 hours: No noticeable change.
3.75 hours: Drops fewer and smaller on undersides of objects mentioned above, but still present. Larger drops of water still on bottom of shower.
4 hours: No noticeable change.
4.25 hours: Very few drops left underneath objects and a couple of drops still present on bottom of shower.
4.5 hours: DRY!
End of Experiment:
Time: 4:30 p.m.
Results: Shower completely dry in 4.5 hours.
This contradicts the Kesse's timeline. The shower must have been used around 12:30 p.m. or later and not 7:00-7:30 a.m. according to the evidence present when the Kesse's arrived at 3:00 p.m.
JOYCE KESSE: Absolutely. Absolutely. And our son does, too, because, you know, her towel was wet. Her shower was still wet. I mean, we arrived at her condominium, it was about 3:00 in the afternoon, and it was kind of -- you know, ~snip~
GRACE: But why would her shower still be wet?
RING: That -- there`s a bunch of factors that can attribute that. And scientifically -- unless we can eliminate those scientifically, we`re going to keep an open mind in the investigation.
GRACE: OK. Now, listen, I`ve put up a lot of scientific evidence to juries before, but I don`t see what`s so scientific about a wet shower. What science are you talking about?
RING: What I`m trying to explain is that I am not certain, by the time the police got there and the Kesses got there, the actual amount of water that was in the shower. And without us being able to get more information about that, it would harm the investigation for us to pinpoint specifically one time. ~snip~
GRACE: OK. You know what? I really -- I respect that. Why limit the time?
But I want to go back to the Kesses, to Drew Kesse. Drew, explain to me -- you know what`s funny -- funny, odd -- that sometimes a fact this small, this seemingly unimportant, could make such a big difference in the case. For instance, if you`re right that she was there that morning to take a shower and go to work, then that could totally rule out this guy walking along the sidewalk at a certain time. On the other hand, if you`re wrong, it makes such a huge difference.
Now, tell me what did you see in the shower? ~snip~
GRACE: Work outfits. OK. And in the bathroom, did it look like she had taken a shower, or had the faucet just been dripping and it was still wet?
JOYCE KESSE: No. There was water -- you know how when you splash it on, like, where you`d keep your shampoo, that sort of thing? There was water there, and as I said, her towel was damp.
GRACE: Ah! OK. And was the bathroom door open or shut? Joyce?
JOYCE KESSE: It was open when we got there, but you know, our son was the first one in the condo.
GRACE: The reason I ask, because if it had been shut, it may have kept the towel from drying out. I know these are small facts...
If you will go back into Jenn's thread, LionRun explained how the dogs "trail" and it would have been trailing the perp and not Jenn. The "scent" they are picking up isn't just airborne, as I understood it.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1513759&highlight=Dog+trailing#post1513759 Post #331
Actually, that entirely depends on what the dog was trained to do and asked to do. Do we have information on what kind of dog this was?
A dog trained in trailing would absolutely be looking for Jennifer and not be confused about the perps scent, unless the article was a contaminated source of scent.
An airscenting dog seems like it would NOT be used in this case, because they look for humans - they are good at search and rescue in unpopulated places.
Wouldn't the dog be trailing the perp? I would have to assume the scent he was tasked to follow was from the seat of her car and he was the last one driving it...unless LE had something else we are unaware of belonging to the perp.
JONES: We established a timeline of Monday, when she last talked to Rob, which was about 10:00 PM, to Thursday at around 8:06, when a resident of that condominium complex located her car. So that`s about a 58-hour window.
The day that we located her car, we did a door-to-door knock and talk. We also did a track with some bloodhounds from her car, which led back to the condominium where she lived, which was about a mile away. What we did with that is, we created a three to five-mile radius around that track, and we`ve done numerous grid searches in wooded, isolated areas where, if somebody was trying to hide something related to this case, we would be able to find it in those particular areas.
That is pretty much what we expected.
90% of the shower surface will dry within the first two hours, and the remaining puddles, on the floor of the shower, will take hours, because of the amount of water than accumulates into puddles.
So, it just strenghtens my point, that the shower information is useless, related to this case.imo
If the shower was wet on the walls when Joyce arrived, then, that means someone just took at shower within the last 2 or 3 hours, and guess what, it probably wasn't JK.
If Joyce is talking about the floor of the shower, there is no telling how long a puddle will last.
I just don't think the shower information can be used on either side of this argument.
Nor can the purse, clothes on the bed, or briefcase.
ImO, both sides have valid arguments.
Plus, you "can't" turn assumptions, into facts. That is what leads to cold cases.
If I had to guess, I'd say 20% chance in the condo, 70% chance at or in the car, and 10% chance on the way to the car.
just my opinion.
Personally, I like the in the condo chances better. It would explain an awful lot, like no witnesses, no screaming, no signs of a struggle anywhere, no broken glass, no blood, etc.
I think it would be a huge mistake to eliminate the possibility that someone entered JK's condo while she was showering, or sleeping, and abducted her.
With a gun, there are no signs of a struggle.
As for the bed, whose to say Jk wasn't unpacking, and that is why there are clothes on the bed.
If if a perp. wanted to use her car, of course, he would grab her purse, to get the car keys, and make it look like she went to work. And the briefcase, just might have something valuable in it, or, have been left in the trunk, since Jk had to carry her suitcase up to her condo.
But remember- this was January not July... humidity, temp, etc is totally different.
I don't know if it would really factor in being the shower isn't succeptable to outside temperatures or influences anyway. She did not have a window open to allow this. The only difference would be the temperature inside the condo which I would imagine to be around the 72 degree mark.