FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse nightclub, Orlando, 12 June 2016 #1

[bluesneakers]

I am just hung up on the drive up here , that has to be a component to this -- do you agree??

Granted there is one bar where he lives, but if he wanted to be ISIS, it near places (movie theatre) where on a Sat night you could be terrorist, why the drive up here , to a gay bar???

I agree. if killing westerners was his main objective there were easier, more convenient targets he could have chosen.

What it means though - I don't know. But this location and type of venue meant something to him.

 

[Sonya610]

I agree, his religious stuff may have had some influence on how he feels / thinks about homosexuality, but I think ISIS stuff is second to pure homophobia(the driving up to Orlando to a popular gay bar IMO is telling- if he wanted to be a terrorist there are closer big places - why did he drive and go to PUlse- has to mean somehting IMO) as motivator.

Second I think mental health will come in picture mooo

I think supporting ISIS was the primary motivator. Victim selection was secondary, targeting people he doesn't like would make perfect sense. Mentioning ISIS will put his entire family, friends, mosque etc...under intense scrutiny so there would be plenty of good reasons NOT to mention it if it wasn't truly a motivating factor.

Plus by choosing a bar he could be sure that none of the victims would be armed and surprise him by returning fire.

 

[rsd1200]

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/ofd-...-to-59-names-of-6-victims-released-/337929937


UPDATE 5 p.m.

The Orlando Fire Department said the death toll in the downtown Orlando nightclub mass shooting has risen to 59.

Raw: Gov. Scott 'This is an act of terrorism' (updated 3:00 p.m.)
However, the Orlando Police Department is still saying the death toll is 50, contrary to what the fire department has released.

Sadness.

 

[Tricia]

There have been several posts talking about mental health.

Believe me,I agree that mental heath issues are often behind mass shootings but in this case, and the other terrorist attacks, the people behind them could very easily be sociopathic and therefore would never benefit from any mental health intervention.

Trying to help someone change through talk therapy who has a personality disorder is like trying to get someone to change the color of their eyes through talk therapy. It doesn't work.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

There have been several posts talking about mental health.

Believe me,I agree that mental heath issues are often behind mass shootings but in this case, and the other terrorist attacks, the people behind them could very easily be sociopathic and therefore would never benefit from any mental health intervention.

Trying to help someone change through talk therapy who has a personality disorder is like trying to get someone to change the color of their eyes through talk therapy. It doesn't work.

Thank you.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

CNN timeline: [video]http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-shooting-timeline/index.html[/video]

Security did everything they could, club was protected, still couldn't stop it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree, his religious stuff may have had some influence on how he feels / thinks about homosexuality, but I think ISIS stuff is second to pure homophobia(the driving up to Orlando to a popular gay bar IMO is telling- if he wanted to be a terrorist there are closer big places - why did he drive and go to PUlse- has to mean somehting IMO) as motivator.

Second I think mental health will come in picture mooo

Why did he go there to strike?

1. they are infidels
2. they are homosexual infidels
3. he knew they gathered there in mass on Saturday night.

So he brought down two groups of infidels at the same time who are most hated by the Islamic terrorists. That is why he hit Pulse.

I absolutely believe he did this ALL in the name of Islam. There is no other group that detest gays more than Islamic terrorists. ISIS openly calls for the deaths of all gays. They make it abundantly clear to all of their followers.



IMO

 

[CARIIS]

I understand that there were other factors but obviously there were people in that bathroom who were captive. It's horrible all the way around but I can see how one shooter could do this in a dark, crowded, loud, nightclub, w/an automatic weapon, especially one he is comfortable with. There would be mass confusion once folks realized what was going on. I don't think LE would just fire at folks running for their lives, who did make it out of the club either. I could be wrong, but I'd hope not. He could have shot 120 people in no time flat when he entered that building. The magazines for those guns are sizable and can be jury-rigged to be even larger. Some people who were injured, probably died during the three hour stand-off, who could possibly have been saved if it had ended sooner. jmo I just took issue w/op talking as if they could have just strolled out of there. He had them like shooting fish in a barrel.

I did not see that video for some hours. However the angle was just not close. My first thought was god that sounds like Watertown in the Boston Marathon, BUT they had they guys out in open on a quiet street,

I thought what the h@ll are they doing---- they are just firing away- we know the murderer never stepped outside the bldg- so they were just shooting bullets at some building that has an outside bar? The outside bar has a chain link fence around it . WTH?

The murderer was inside , they could not see him and aim - so what they were blairing away at ??

That is what I am asking ??

 

[CSIDreamer]

Of course they have, even though he was a lone wolf type who acted for his own pathetic reasons. IMO this is home grown terrorism, a hate crime, and a crazed gunman all rolled all into one. I think these losers try and make themselves seem larger than life in various ways and by saying it was an ISIS attack he was doing just that.

I really think the "lone wolf" theory is what ISIS wants us to believe. I firmly believe they are training killers to go out one by one and take out as many people as possible. It's just my opinion, but I think we need to get away from lone wolf theories where ISIS is concerned. There's a whole lot more in the background that we aren't seeing that goes on.

 

[Treelights]

I think supporting ISIS was the primary motivator. Victim selection was secondary, targeting people he doesn't like would make perfect sense. Mentioning ISIS will put his entire family, friends, mosque etc...under intense scrutiny so there would be plenty of good reasons NOT to mention it if it wasn't truly a motivating factor.

Plus by choosing a bar he could be sure that none of the victims would be armed and surprise him by returning fire.

Thing is in the 911 call he did talk about ISIS... He pledged allegiance to ISIS.

 

[rsd1200]

I am just hung up on the drive up here , that has to be a component to this -- do you agree??

Granted there is one bar where he lives, but if he wanted to be ISIS, it near places (movie theatre) where on a Sat night you could be terrorist, why the drive up here , to a gay bar???

Just a thought, but could he have possibly figured out who the two men were who kissed in front of him and his son, sleuthed them, and found that they frequented Pulse, then set up the game plan? I mean, the parents said he was really angered over the pda in front of him and his child. It is not only a popular place, it was a popular night from what I gather, it is LGBTQ month, and, what if one or both of the men frequented Pulse, and then it all aligns w/Ramadan.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think there are a lot of things we need to be talking about. He targeted a gay nightclub, so we need to talk about homophobia. He pledged allegiance to Isis so we need to talk about radical Islamic terrorism. And he legally bought a gun despite being investigated by the FBI, so we need to talk about guns. However, everyone is going to divide themselves into 1 or 2 of those camps and just start bickering. People will ignore a big factor of this to promote their agenda...


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[oceanblueeyes]

CNN timeline: [video]http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-shooting-timeline/index.html[/video]

Security did everything they could, club was protected, still couldn't stop it.

There are so many variables that could have had a much different result, but Tricia has already told us to keep the comments about gun control off of this thread so I will do as I am told.

But cops don't carry around AR-15s in their back pocket. I will say that much.

 

[STANDREID]

I have a feeling some heads might roll on this. The FBI cleared this guy because he only had minimal contact with a suicide bomber. There's a tolerable amount of contact with suicide bombers?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Are people really not sure why he targeted a gay nightclub? Um, he's a homophobe. It's really not that big of a mystery.


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[CSIDreamer]

I agree, his religious stuff may have had some influence on how he feels / thinks about homosexuality, but I think ISIS stuff is second to pure homophobia(the driving up to Orlando to a popular gay bar IMO is telling- if he wanted to be a terrorist there are closer big places - why did he drive and go to PUlse- has to mean somehting IMO) as motivator.

Second I think mental health will come in picture mooo

I've been wondering about that kill list that ISIS released. I can get the link if need be, I think I saw it linked here already. This is being presented as an "upscale" gay bar. There had to be a specific reason he drove to this particular bar. Do you think it's possible there was a target there from the list?

 

[tangelo]

Long read, but an interesting article on G4S, the security firm that employed the shooter.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/04/g4s-global-security-company




I'm guessing that the Florida offices were nowhere near the top of the concerns list for his employer.

the feds contract w gs4 to transport illegals from the border to other parts of the US

 

[Tricia]

Here is the link to Equality Florida Action Inc

This page lists services offered to anyone affected by the attack. lists where you can give blood, and information on vigils in the area.

 

[i.b.nora]

So, his current job was at an upscale gated community where he 'manned' the guard shack and checked IDs. - Stephanie Gosk / MSNBC

 

[CARIIS]

Why is it in every situation like this its always this question of how did they get them legally, it like a complete ignore of the black market for guns. It has always confused me.

It is like people think that if they did not pass a background check they would not be able to get the gun . That gives this silly notion that these are law abiding citizens .

If they could not get it legally, they can easily get a gun black market and proceed no?