FL - Multiple Fatalities at Mass Shooting at Madden Gaming Tournament, Jacksonville, 26 Aug 2018

[MaryG12]

Don't forget church shootings.

Maybe we should ban all public gatherings.

Good idea - we can all hide under the bed with our teddy bears and bunnies.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

He was taking the drug Risperdol used for treating schizophrenia or bipolar, David's dad shared with the court.

It's also used for treating behavioural issues in autism:

Compared to placebo, risperidone treatment reduces certain problematic behaviors in autistic children, including aggression toward others, self-injury, temper tantrums, and rapid mood changes. The evidence for its efficacy appears to be greater than that for alternative pharmacological treatments.[25] Weight gain is an important adverse effect.[26][27] Some authors recommend limiting the use of risperidone and aripiprazole to those with the most challenging behavioral disturbances in order to minimize the risk of drug-induced adverse effects.[28] Evidence for the efficacy of risperidone in autistic adolescents and young adults is less persuasive.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risperidone#cite_note-29

Risperidone - Wikipedia

I don't know enough about psychiatric drugs to know if it was considered "heavy duty" compared to others, but the wikipedia article states that the manufacturer, Johnson & Johnson, has been involved in a number of legal actions connected to the drug.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Jacksonville shooting: Orlando Magic video gamer reaches out to victimized friend

Commentary:
Jacksonville shooting: Orlando Magic video gamer reaches out to victimized friend

“You think you’re safe just playing a game for fun and then a sad, upsetting tragedy like this happens,” says Belal Almashni — a 24-year-old member of the Orlando Magic’s NBA 2K competitive video game team — in the aftermath of the mass shooting at the "Madden NFL 19" tournament Jacksonville on Sunday. “It’s insane. You just can never imagine something like this could happen.”

Actually, it’s getting easier and easier to imagine. We’ve certainly seen it happen in this state too many times in recent years — at Pulse, at Stoneman Douglas and now at a football video game tournament in Jacksonville, where the gunman killed two people and wounded 10 others before fatally shooting himself.​

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Mass shooting at Jacksonville video tournament 'an all-too-familiar sight' in Florida, the U.S.

The League of Women Voters and the Florida Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence decried the fatal shootings Sunday at a video game tournament in Jacksonville, calling the killings “an all-too-familiar sight in Florida and our country.”

“We should not have to wonder about the chances of being gunned down whenever we leave our homes,” the organizations’ joint statement read. “The desire for a state and country free from gun violence is not a partisan issue.”
​

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Jacksonville shooting: Suspect had strange online persona, mental health issues

Katz is believed to have stayed in the Jacksonville area the night before the shooting, possibly at a hotel, the Baltimore Sun said.

Jacksonville Sheriff Williams said Katz carried two guns but used only one during the attack. Investigators say the guns were purchased legally in Baltimore from a licensed dealer.​

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

It's also used for treating behavioural issues in autism:


Risperidone - Wikipedia

I don't know enough about psychiatric drugs to know if it was considered "heavy duty" compared to others, but the wikipedia article states that the manufacturer, Johnson & Johnson, has been involved in a number of legal actions connected to the drug.

From the link:

“Weight gain is an important adverse effect.[26][27] Some authors recommend limiting the use of risperidone and aripiprazole to those with the most challenging behavioral disturbances in order to minimize the risk of drug-induced adverse effects.[28] Evidence for the efficacy of risperidone in autistic adolescents and young adults is less persuasive.[29]“​

If anything, he was underweight, imo. Do we know for certain he was taking this specific medication before his shooting rampage?

 

[bluesneakers]

From the link:

“Weight gain is an important adverse effect.[26][27] Some authors recommend limiting the use of risperidone and aripiprazole to those with the most challenging behavioral disturbances in order to minimize the risk of drug-induced adverse effects.[28] Evidence for the efficacy of risperidone in autistic adolescents and young adults is less persuasive.[29]“​

If anything, he was underweight, imo. Do we know for certain he was taking this specific medication before his shooting rampage?

I don't think we have any way of knowing, but not all side effects (or not always the same side effects) affect every one who takes psych meds.

 

[JDough]

Firstly, an armchair diagnosis is BS. We don't know that, and it is unfair to make such an allegation even if it merely your opinion.

Secondly, the term is "Aspergers". No "b" in the word. But actually it is properly called "Autism Spectrum Disorder". Not all on the spectrum are violent, in fact, we usually tend to avoid confrontations. What these alleged "Aspergers" folks that allegedly commit these shootings have in common are a poor mental health support system, easy access to firearms, and no framework for these shooters to be found and dealt with prior to the crime. Plenty of non-spectrum folks commit similar crimes every day.

Another factoid for you anti-gamers: Gamers come in all ages, genders, walks of life. Most of us are not "addicted" to gaming. Gaming is, for most of us, a perfectly enjoyable and healthy hobby. No one I know in my international gaming community has been violent. Most of us don't even own weapons of any sort.

I am 51, retired, mother to a grown son, have travelled around the world, have lived for extended periods of time in two countries. I cook, clean house and do all the normal things other people do. I have many hobbies, including collecting degrees and cross-stitch. I am also an avid gamer and have been since childhood (starting with D&D, which I play to this day), then I moved on to video games as they became available. I do not consider my gaming to be "addictive" or negative in any way. It's social and it's fun, and it is no way a waste of my time or money.

My point? Neither being on the Autism Spectrum nor being a gamer has caused me to be violent, or commit any crime.

People pointing towards the venue of this shooting as proof that gamers are violent or "need to get a life" are misguided and very narrow-minded. Today it happened to be another young man who decided to take out his aggression on a certain area of annoyance (in his mind). If that makes gamers "bad" and gaming contests are wrong-- as this occurred at a gaming tourny-- then the same knee-jerk reaction needs to be enforced (by the same "logic"- using the term loosely) by shutting down places of worship, shopping malls and country western concerts.

It's early on in the investigation. Why not let it play out? And for goodness sake people, let's all think before we type. Don't label an entire group of people that you don't even know. Let's watch and see and comment on facts, not insult others.

Thank you for your post, Sun. One of the things I really enjoy about WS, is the ability to understand things from someone else's point of view.

Despite the fact I don't always agree (or disagree ) with another member, I almost ALWAYS learn something new.

Although I have never been a gamer (my ADHD rarely let's me sit in one spot for too long ), I am super impressed that you and I are the same gender and age, and you find such enjoyment in playing.

I only wish DK had continued to find enjoyment in the game, and not place too much stock on winning or losing.

Regardless of the fact true motive for the shooting has not necessarily been revealed, DK's poor sportsman-like conduct has. If the Twitter threads posted above are correct, he refused to shake hands upon his elimination from the tournament. That (to me) indicates he no longer enjoyed the game- he just wanted to win. MOO

 

[MelmothTheLost]

No, to asylum something is to essentially warehouse it, by definition. We don’t need insane asylums. We need better, more accessible health care, which includes mental health care.

What better mental health care do you think might exist in the US which isn't currently available to the family of two fairly senior federal government employees? Periods of compulsory psychiatric in-care and psychiatric medication were both tried to no avail in this case.

It's no longer considered acceptable to keep people locked up long term or permanently, but you can't force them to take medication once they've been released. It's why so many mental health patients endure an endless cycle of being locked up, forcibly medicated, stablised, released back into society and then refusing to take medication and deteriorating to the point of being locked up again.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

From the link:

“Weight gain is an important adverse effect.[26][27] Some authors recommend limiting the use of risperidone and aripiprazole to those with the most challenging behavioral disturbances in order to minimize the risk of drug-induced adverse effects.[28] Evidence for the efficacy of risperidone in autistic adolescents and young adults is less persuasive.[29]“​

If anything, he was underweight, imo. Do we know for certain he was taking this specific medication before his shooting rampage?

See this bit from the quote above:

Evidence for the efficacy of risperidone in autistic adolescents and young adults is less persuasive.

Maybe he'd either stopped taking it or it was no longer effective for him.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

What better mental health care do you think might exist in the US which isn't currently available to the family of two fairly senior federal government employees? Periods of compulsory psychiatric in-care and psychiatric medication were both tried to no avail in this case.

You’re kidding, right? My point is easier access — earlier intervention that isn’t as cost prohibitive and that reduces long waiting times, for starters. Just because one might be relatively well-off and/or work for the government doesn’t mean your family is entitled to anything better than what’s already available.

Just goes to show these issues impact everyone, imo. We can do better.

And, to clarify, I didn’t say anything about making it easier to institutionalize people for long-term periods of time. ... And please cite statistics showing compulsory inpatient care (at any age, for any length of time — and it’s not strictly synonymous with longterm involuntary institutionalization, btw) and medical treatment is “to no avail.” I think some folks conflate “insane asylums” with compulsory treatment programs. The Baker Act is a thing.

Yes, it will likely always be a battle to help a very ill adult do something they don’t want to do. It’s tragic. I fully agree there.

ETA: This story states he first took it at age 12, but we have no idea for how long. Tbh, that’s young. I assume doctors believed the potential benefits outweighed the risks. Fact is, we just don’t know his treatment history and might not ever since a trial is not an option, imo.

In Howard County, parents of Jacksonville shooting suspect had been desperate to find psychiatric care for son

 

[bluesneakers]

No, to asylum something is to essentially warehouse it, by definition. We don’t need insane asylums. We need better, more accessible health care, which includes mental health care.

Agree. We need to treat people who are ill, not lock them up.

And it's only part of what's involved in mass shootings like this. Better mental health care and access to it will help everyone, but there is much more to do.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

See this bit from the quote above:

Maybe he'd either stopped taking it or it was no longer effective for him.

I kinda wonder that, too. If he took it during his parents’ divorce (I think that medication detail was in the divorce records reported on in the stories posted unthread, iirc), that’s a 10-year timeframe. And his parents have been divorced for awhile, right?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

From the link:

“Weight gain is an important adverse effect.[26][27] Some authors recommend limiting the use of risperidone and aripiprazole to those with the most challenging behavioral disturbances in order to minimize the risk of drug-induced adverse effects.[28] Evidence for the efficacy of risperidone in autistic adolescents and young adults is less persuasive.[29]“​

If anything, he was underweight, imo. Do we know for certain he was taking this specific medication before his shooting rampage?

Weren’t the court documents stating DK was on medication from 10 or more years ago?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

You’re kidding, right? My point is that easier access — earlier intervention that isn’t as cost prohibitive and that reduces long waiting times, for starters. Just because one might be relatively well-off and/or work for the government doesn’t mean your family is entitled to anything better than what’s already available.

I haven't suggested this family was entitled to anything better than what's available, but that given their circumstances what was available to them was probably as good as it gets in the US today, and that wasn't enough. Solutions can't be magicked out of a hat. If the best available doesn't work, what then?

And, to clarify, I didn’t say anything about making it easier to institutionalize people for long-term periods of time. ... And please cite statistics showing compulsory inpatient care (at any age — and it’s not strictly synonymous with longterm involuntary treatment m) and medical treatment is “to no avail.” The Baker Act is a thing.

I have no idea about the Baker Act. I'm a Brit. But we probably have very similar legislation here in the UK.

I haven't said that medical treatment is to no avail in general terms. I've said it has been to no avail in this case. Katz already had significant mental health issues in 2005 so he has been undergoing treatment (or maybe not) for these issues since he was 11 or thereabouts. More than half his life that we know about.

There's a curious thing about "asylum" in mental health. The word means a place of safety. Permanent or longterm places of safety for the mentally ill were provided by monasteries in medieval Europe. In the UK those places were closed down in the 16th century and the mentally ill were turned out on to the streets to fend for themselves. Then in the 18th century medical thinking turned towards providing secular asylums because it was thought better for all concerned that the seriously mentally ill be taken back off the streets. In recent decades it's been decided that they are better off, after all, "in the community" which all too often means back on the streets.

Dunno. It seems to me that Katz fell between the cracks. Too disabled mentally to ever function properly in society but not sufficiently disabled to be forced into a permanent residental facility. But where do you draw the line?

 

[BlueShoe]

Insane asylums were completely inhumane I know, I know. I’m just disgusted with all the mental illness issues being so out of hand and uncontrollable.

Mental illness is an illness. Are you also disgusted with someone with cancer or a heart disease. Yes, we do need better facilities and treatment, but I am disgusted by dehumanizing the mentally ill as "insane" and needing to be locked away for good. Only a few commit these horrendous crimes, which is also true of perfectly "sane" people.

 

[Jennifer17]

I don't think that any country truly has a handle on severe mental illness. It is so difficult to treat and the very nature of it means that a lot of people will be non compliant with medication.

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't think that any country truly has a handle on severe mental illness. It is so difficult to treat and the very nature of it means that a lot of people will be non compliant with medication.

Yes, the nature of the various illnesses (some more than others) along with stigma, side effects, and the price of medication. Oh, and the actual effectiveness of the medication. Why take it if it doesn't work?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

According to the Mail:

As part of their proceedings, a judge also ordered both parents to maintain health coverage for the boys who had 'significant medical problems and needs.'

So both brothers had significant health problems which had to be addressed during the divorce.

And his mother worked for the FDA.

Gamer gunman was hospitalized for psychological issues and struggled at college | Daily Mail Online

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I don't think that any country truly has a handle on severe mental illness. It is so difficult to treat and the very nature of it means that a lot of people will be non compliant with medication.

Very true and add to that the "shame" factor. It's not considered an illness, it's considered a weakness by many people. That makes treatment that much harder.