FL - Sara Morales, 35, shot dead by motorcyclist she hit with car, Orange City, 20 Nov 2021

[steeltowngirl]

I remember hearing that it started on McGregor which is basically Orange camp. if you're on 1792 and you turn right it's orange camp and if you turn left it's McGregor. Sm was sitting at the red light at Mcgregor getting ready to turn right onto 1792. AD pulled up behind her at the stoplight. light turns green SM and AD both make a right turn into the right lane. there were three lanes right there which turn into two lanes very shortly. after making the turn ad went for the far left lane. SM was pissed about it for some reason and try to run him off the road. she barely missed him and then he got over to the right lane and that's when she pulled up and hit him.

Just asking - was AD lane splitting on McGregor?

 

[Novice_slueth999]

Just asking - was AD lane splitting on McGregor?

Mcgregor only has 1 lane on each side....and its all woods. No traffic to split.

 

[GatorFL]

I live in the area. I've heard all the stories. I have a friend that worked with the guy for awhile as well who gave me intimate details.

If you're local and have time in the day you can get the report faster than I. I have to do it the old fashioned way, mail and a stamp. Orange City is still a bit behind the times.

I grew up in the area BTW.

 

[Knitty]

MOD REMINDER:

We welcome new members to Websleuths to discuss this troubling case.
PLEASE review the WS rules we ALL agreed to when we joined.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/the-rules.159/

The Terms of Service are intentionally strict as WS is the gold standard of true crime discussion websites, and we all work hard to keep it that way.
Here are a few of the key rules:

- Post only facts, and that must be linked to the source of those facts.
- If it can’t be linked, it can’t be posted. That includes any pictures.
- Approved links are from mainstream media (MSM) or law enforcement (LE) statements.
- The ONLY Facebook links permitted are those from MSM, LE, the victim, or the OFFICIAL missing page if there is one established.
- NO public comments from ANY source are allowed as they cannot be verified.
- NO ONE may be accused/speculated/sleuthed unless they are the victims or persons NAMED BY LE as a suspect or POI.
- If you have inside info you want to share without providing links, YOU MUST BE APPROVED AS A VERIFIED INSIDER. Link to do so is in my signature below.

Websleuths is FACT-BASED and VICTIM-FRIENDLY.
Family members are considered victims also unless/until LE tells us they are suspects or POIs.
Posts that are in violation of ANY of the Websleuths’ TOS are subject to removal, as are all the replies that quote and/or reference the violating post.

PLEASE use the Report button at the bottom of any post if you come upon a post that is questionable regarding Websleuths’ TOS.

THANK YOU for your efforts to post respectfully and responsibly according to the Websleuths’ TOS.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/the-rules.159/

 

[Laughing]

Mcgregor only has 1 lane on each side....and its all woods. No traffic to split.

Lane splitting doesn't always mean 2 lanes in the same direction.

To some reckless motorcycle riders -- they'll ride as if there is room in one lane for 2 vehicles anywhere. Passing in the same lane on either side is still lane splitting, still extremely dangerous for both vehicles & just plan reckless!

I've been passed by such a reckless motorcycle rider after a zipper merge on an interstate highway recently! I then had the good fortune to watch the semi a couple vehicles ahead slide gently toward the median, blocking said reckless motorcycle rider.

(I will not refer to these people as motorcyclists. Just reckless motorcycle riders.)

These reckless motorcycle riders give the rest of us a bad reputation.

jmho ymmv while riding recklessly lrr

 

[Novice_slueth999]

If you're local and have time in the day you can get the report faster than I. I have to do it the old fashioned way, mail and a stamp. Orange City is still a bit behind the times.

I grew up in the area BTW.

unfortunately my daily schedule is very busy during the day and I definitely won't be able to make it up there to do that. granted I'm only five or six miles from there but my daily routine is just very busy right now.

 

[Novice_slueth999]

Lane splitting doesn't always mean 2 lanes in the same direction.

To some reckless motorcycle riders -- they'll ride as if there is room in one lane for 2 vehicles anywhere. Passing in the same lane on either side is still lane splitting, still extremely dangerous for both vehicles & just plan reckless!

I've been passed by such a reckless motorcycle rider after a zipper merge on an interstate highway recently! I then had the good fortune to watch the semi a couple vehicles ahead slide gently toward the median, blocking said reckless motorcycle rider.

(I will not refer to these people as motorcyclists. Just reckless motorcycle riders.)

These reckless motorcycle riders give the rest of us a bad reputation.

jmho ymmv while riding recklessly lrr

well I don't know anything about that. I've never seen a motorcycle try to share a lane with a car. that would just be stupid. Anyway, McGregor road is not a busy road. there's never any traffic on it and it's just swamp and woods. it's a 35 mph speed limit road.

 

[Laughing]

well I don't know anything about that. I've never seen a motorcycle try to share a lane with a car. that would just be stupid. Anyway, McGregor road is not a busy road. there's never any traffic on it and it's just swamp and woods. it's a 35 mph speed limit road.

I've also had experience with reckless motorcycle riders who pass just as close to a vehicle as possible. In one situation, as a 20-something blonde female, I drove the same roads in a passenger car and in a large farm truck (employer's.)

Was passed by the same motorcycle rider multiple times in each vehicle.

Could have touched him from my car, but he gave that well-used, dusty, dented, farm truck a reasonable birth.

If there is "never any traffic on it" how did the two vehicles have the claimed contact and how were there two witnesses to the alleged contact?

We own & ride motorcycles, use them as vehicles. IMHO, this guy out riding & carrying a weapon & ready to use it doesn't really see the motorcycle as a vehicle....

Sitting on my hands, now.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[steeltowngirl]

I may be looking in the wrong area, but McGregor appears to be a two-lane road with additional turn lanes.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

Post #730 shared this article.

Prosecutors Will Not Charge Motorcyclist Who Followed Pregnant Library Assistant Home After Road Rage Incident and Shot Her Dead

A Florida motorcyclist who shot a pregnant librarian dead following a road rage incident will not be charged with a crime, prosecutors announced.

lawandcrime.com

The incident report is contained in the article, but it relates mainly to the homicide call (I am noting that charges were not filed upon investigation).

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21408593/doc02821120220310121640.pdf

 

[fridaybaker]

I'm not sure what you mean. She was the aggressor from the beginning. She caused a traffic accident and did not pull over, as required. She ran home, instead of to the sheriff substation which was very close to her house. She then came out of her house and confronted the men with a firearm. Meanwhile the men were in the street adjacent to her home. The shooter in this case had multiple witnesses who verified his version of the facts, the authorities took a couple of looks at everything and twice cleared him.

As I said in the beginning, it is critical to know your state's laws for self defense and for firearms use. It is clear that Sara Morales did not know them in this case. She made many bad decisions and paid for it with her life.

I agree with this. In theory. If she did hit the guy on the bike intentionally, she surely shouldn’t have. However, he apparently wasn’t hurt and was able to continue driving the motorcycle.

It seems like it was road rage, but that she wasn’t trying to kill him or do great bodily harm. She tapped him.

Now, this guy is with two other men and they chase her to her home. She calls 911 and arm’s herself. She knows, if they followed her home, they are mad. She used poor judgement in stepping outside, but it was also poor judgement, in my opinion, for THREE men to follow a lone woman to her home. They could have called 911 and given them a description of her and her vehicle.

If I were followed home by three men I would be absolutely freaked out. I’ve been in a situation before where a man was at my door and I didn’t understand the situation. I was so scared, even while on the phone with 911, I made poor decisions. Thankfully, nothing like hers, but people can do bad things when terrified. Use very bad judgement.

Sadly, this woman and innocent child are dead, but in my opinion, both the men and the woman could have made better decisions. Sure: One certainly has a “right” to follow someone, but three men following a woman to her home was a very bad idea.

All MOO.

 

[worm]

I agree with this. In theory. If she did hit the guy on the bike intentionally, she surely shouldn’t have. However, he apparently wasn’t hurt and was able to continue driving the motorcycle.

It seems like it was road rage, but that she wasn’t trying to kill him or do great bodily harm. She tapped him.

Now, this guy is with two other men and they chase her to her home. She calls 911 and arm’s herself. She knows, if they followed her home, they are mad. She used poor judgement in stepping outside, but it was also poor judgement, in my opinion, for THREE men to follow a lone woman to her home. They could have called 911 and given them a description of her and her vehicle.

If I were followed home by three men I would be absolutely freaked out. I’ve been in a situation before where a man was at my door and I didn’t understand the situation. I was so scared, even while on the phone with 911, I made poor decisions. Thankfully, nothing like hers, but people can do bad things when terrified. Use very bad judgement.

Sadly, this woman and innocent child are dead, but in my opinion, both the men and the woman could have made better decisions. Sure: One certainly has a “right” to follow someone, but three men following a woman to her home was a very bad idea.

All MOO.

I believe we would have gotten the same result if she had just opened fire, claimed fear, and tossed it to the same prosecutors.

 

[neesaki]

I agree with this. In theory. If she did hit the guy on the bike intentionally, she surely shouldn’t have. However, he apparently wasn’t hurt and was able to continue driving the motorcycle.

It seems like it was road rage, but that she wasn’t trying to kill him or do great bodily harm. She tapped him.

Now, this guy is with two other men and they chase her to her home. She calls 911 and arm’s herself. She knows, if they followed her home, they are mad. She used poor judgement in stepping outside, but it was also poor judgement, in my opinion, for THREE men to follow a lone woman to her home. They could have called 911 and given them a description of her and her vehicle.

If I were followed home by three men I would be absolutely freaked out. I’ve been in a situation before where a man was at my door and I didn’t understand the situation. I was so scared, even while on the phone with 911, I made poor decisions. Thankfully, nothing like hers, but people can do bad things when terrified. Use very bad judgement.

Sadly, this woman and innocent child are dead, but in my opinion, both the men and the woman could have made better decisions. Sure: One certainly has a “right” to follow someone, but three men following a woman to her home was a very bad idea.

All MOO.

Wasn’t it established that she wasn’t pregnant as initially reported, or am I confused or misremembering ? TIA

 

[GatorFL]

I believe we would have gotten the same result if she had just opened fire, claimed fear, and tossed it to the same prosecutors.

It depends on the circumstances but if they were the same as what we know absolutely not. Florida's justifiable use of force laws are extremely clear. She was not in imminent danger in the safety of her home. The men were not trying to break into her residence, they were in the public road. She exited the residence with a firearm. If she had started shooting before Derr pulled his gun, she would be in jail for homicide. Why? She was not in imminent danger. There were other alternatives. She was not in a Stand Your Ground situation, ever.

 

[GatorFL]

Wasn’t it established that she wasn’t pregnant as initially reported, or am I confused or misremembering ? TIA

Seems like the pregnancy was not viable.

 

[GatorFL]

It seems like it was road rage, but that she wasn’t trying to kill him or do great bodily harm. She tapped him.

Sadly, this woman and innocent child are dead, but in my opinion, both the men and the woman could have made better decisions. Sure: One certainly has a “right” to follow someone, but three men following a woman to her home was a very bad idea.

All MOO.

I am not sure how anybody can know how minor an accident is when they don't stop and look at the vehicles. Regardless, you can't just "tap" a motorcyclist with your car. A car vs a motorcycle, a car is a deadly weapon.

It has also been reported that the men were strangers, they did not know each other. The other two people saw what happened and were acting as good samaritans. I believe they were trying to get her to pull over so they could exchange insurance information. What other choice did she leave anybody? She refused to pull over and he swent home. It's not like they were pounding on her door. They were in the street. She could have stayed inside and waited for LE.

 

[worm]

It depends on the circumstances but if they were the same as what we know absolutely not. Florida's justifiable use of force laws are extremely clear. She was not in imminent danger in the safety of her home. The men were not trying to break into her residence, they were in the public road. She exited the residence with a firearm. If she had started shooting before Derr pulled his gun, she would be in jail for homicide. Why? She was not in imminent danger. There were other alternatives. She was not in a Stand Your Ground situation, ever.

The gun itself won here. As for who used it and who died it doesn’t matter. The end result is this being recorded as a self defense ground standing act and not a gun crime.

 

[GatorFL]

The gun itself won here. As for who used it and who died it doesn’t matter. The end result is this being recorded as a self defense ground standing act and not a gun crime.

I don't understand your reply. You alleged that Sara Morales would have been found as innocent under the justifiable use of force statute in your earlier post. I replied I did not think so based upon the law and explained why. Now you're alleging the gun itself won. I disagree. Andrew Derr had a gun pointed at his chest 15 feet away, he had every right to use his gun the way he did. Guns are inanimate objects and cannot use themselves. It takes a person to use them as intended.

 

[fridaybaker]

I am not sure how anybody can know how minor an accident is when they don't stop and look at the vehicles. Regardless, you can't just "tap" a motorcyclist with your car. A car vs a motorcycle, a car is a deadly weapon.

It has also been reported that the men were strangers, they did not know each other. The other two people saw what happened and were acting as good samaritans. I believe they were trying to get her to pull over so they could exchange insurance information. What other choice did she leave anybody? She refused to pull over and he swent home. It's not like they were pounding on her door. They were in the street. She could have stayed inside and waited for LE.

I agree with much of this, but whether or not the men knew each other, I still think it was a bad idea to follow her. They could have noted the description of the car and her and simply called LE.

I am not saying she made good decisions, just that she likely felt very vulnerable. I would have been frightened out of my mind (but hopefully wouldn’t have gone outside.) I do think he MJ could have had some impact on her poor decision making.

So sad for her and her family!

 

[GatorFL]

I agree with much of this, but whether or not the men knew each other, I still think it was a bad idea to follow her. They could have noted the description of the car and her and simply called LE.

I am not saying she made good decisions, just that she likely felt very vulnerable. I would have been frightened out of my mind (but hopefully wouldn’t have gone outside.) I do think he MJ could have had some impact on her poor decision making.

So sad for her and her family!

Ok. Again, multiple investigations found her to be the aggressor, not someone who appeared to be vulnerable.

 

[SuziQ]

I agree with much of this, but whether or not the men knew each other, I still think it was a bad idea to follow her. They could have noted the description of the car and her and simply called LE.

I am not saying she made good decisions, just that she likely felt very vulnerable. I would have been frightened out of my mind (but hopefully wouldn’t have gone outside.) I do think he MJ could have had some impact on her poor decision making.

So sad for her and her family!

Following her, IMO, was a poor decision. But it wasn't illegal.