FLDS compound in Texas Court proceedings ONLY please!!!!!

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Are the women that are still with children younger than 4 at the shelter, allowed to continue staying with them after the judges orders yesterday?

I don't doubt that they will be seperated if they haven't already.

 

[cheko1]

I don't see where the women who stayed at the shelter are helping anything. They should send them packing.

 

[Leila]

I doubt many, if any, of the men at the YFZ ranch will show up for DNA testing. Certainly any that have fathered a child with an underage girl aren't going to allow a DNA test that could prove them guilty. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that when that mobile lab pulls into the ranch, most of the men are gone.

As for the women who've been allowed to stay with their children, if the children are 5 and under...........I think they need to be separated from the children and given the option of returning to the ranch or going to a women's shelter.

I'd like to see these women counseled on an individual basis. I think they should be told the reality of the situation, that it's against the law for children under the age of 16 to be forced into a marriage and sex with an adult man over the age of 18. They should be told that the children are being placed in foster homes pending investigation, and that the children won't be allowed to be returned if there's a risk of underage marriage and sex.

I think some individual counseling might result in some of these women opting to go to the women's shelter with the intention of leaving the FLDS. Or is that being too optimistic?

 

[Spotted1]

Unless he's referring to God (or Jesus) as a prophet? As far as the tenents of the two religions and the rituals that are followed by both I don't see where they're similar to FLDS.

FLDS are Christians, technically, the same as Baptists and Catholics. That would be my guess as to what John Walsh was aiming at. It's not about rituals, but about core beliefs. They believe that there's a God, and that Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for man's sins. Catholics and Baptists believe the same way.

Unlike Baptists and Catholics, however, FLDS take many parts of the Bible literally ("Be fruitful and multiple" for example.).

But there are more similarities. Consider how Catholics look to the Pope to lead them, make decisions for them. If the Pope says that IVF is wrong, then, generally speaking of course, parishiners follow his lead. What the FLDS leaders say, their followers do. Same concept.

 

[Pepper]

FLDS are Christians, technically, the same as Baptists and Catholics. That would be my guess as to what John Walsh was aiming at. It's not about rituals, but about core beliefs. They believe that there's a God, and that Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for man's sins. Catholics and Baptists believe the same way.

Unlike Baptists and Catholics, however, FLDS take many parts of the Bible literally ("Be fruitful and multiple" for example.).

But there are more similarities. Consider how Catholics look to the Pope to lead them, make decisions for them. If the Pope says that IVF is wrong, then, generally speaking of course, parishiners follow his lead. What the FLDS leaders say, their followers do. Same concept.

Technically there are many, including myself, who would disagree with this statement. Just google "are mormons christians" and you will see why many Christian denominations do not consider LDS or FLDS to be Christian because of their belief in polytheism.

ETA: Christians believe in one God. Mormons believe that God was once man and that any Mormon man can earn his way to the highest levels of heaven and become a god in another world (planet?).

 

[Spotted1]

Technically there are many, including myself, who would disagree with this statement. Just google "are mormons christians" and you will see why many Christian denominations do not consider LDS or FLDS to be Christian because of their belief in polytheism.

ETA: Christians believe in one God. Mormons believe that God was once man and that any Mormon man can earn his way to the highest levels of heaven and become a god in another world (planet?).

Just because you or even "other christians" believe that (F)LDS aren't Christians, it doesn't change the fact that, by definition, they are Christians.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn.htm

As far as polytheism goes... LDS believe in "The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost", much like many other Christians. They do believe that through exaltation they may become like gods. How is that any different than say, Catholics with their sainthood?

For the record, I'm not FLDS, or LDS.. or even Christian..

 

[cook78]

Um, wow. I must agree with Pepper.

 

[LovingTheChaos]

Pepper - I am not a Mormon, but I Know several & I believe they all consider themselves Christians. Many Evangelicals don't consider Catholics Christians, And many Catholics don't consider Protestants Christians. I don't think that it is going to be up to any of us here on earth to decide who is the most deserving of the title 'Christian'.

I don't believe they believe that men can become 'gods'. I am not an expert, but I think they are closer to Catholics beliefs in Sainthood. They do believe in one God & that Jesus is the son of God. Beyond that, their beliefs depart drastically from my own. I am searching for a post by a mormon reader that gave an excellent description of their faith.

I can tell you that I have always been impressed with Mormons that I have met. They exhibited what I would consider "Christian-like" behaviors that I think we all could learn from.

 

[Spotted1]

Pepper - I am not a Mormon, but I Know several & I believe they all consider themselves Christians. Many Evangelicals don't consider Catholics Christians, And many Catholics don't consider Protestants Christians. I don't think that it is going to be up to any of us here on earth to decide who is the most deserving of the title 'Christian'.

I don't believe they believe that men can become 'gods'. I am not an expert, but I think they are closer to Catholics beliefs in Sainthood. They do believe in one God & that Jesus is the son of God. Beyond that, their beliefs depart drastically from my own. I am searching for a post by a mormon reader that gave an excellent description of their faith.

I can tell you that I have always been impressed with Mormons that I have met. They exhibited what I would consider "Christian-like" behaviors that I think we all could learn from.

Oh thank goodness for your post. I was afraid I'd be standing solo on this one.

 

[TopGunner]

I just saw the unibrow , they're on Nancy Grace now. One of the guests, Allison (she used to be on Little House on the Prarie), said this isn't about religion, it's about child rape.

 

[Truly]

I just saw the unibrow , they're on Nancy Grace now. One of the guests, Allison (she used to be on Little House on the Prarie), said this isn't about religion, it's about child rape.

LOL! Do you mean she used to wear the outfits and be in the cult? Or was she really one of the free-spirited girls on the show inspired by the equally free-spirited Laura Ingalls Wilder?

LOL either way!

And she is absolutely right. This is not about religion; it is about child rape.

 

[mollymalone]

I don't doubt that they will be seperated if they haven't already.

SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) - "Adult mothers who have been allowed to stay with their young children since they were taken from a polygamous sect will be separated from them after DNA sampling is completed next week, a child welfare official said Saturday.

Now, only mothers younger than 18 will be allowed to remain with their children once the sampling is complete. The welfare agency will also try to keep siblings together, he said."

 

[Pepper]

Pepper - I am not a Mormon, but I Know several & I believe they all consider themselves Christians. Many Evangelicals don't consider Catholics Christians, And many Catholics don't consider Protestants Christians. I don't think that it is going to be up to any of us here on earth to decide who is the most deserving of the title 'Christian'.

I don't believe they believe that men can become 'gods'. I am not an expert, but I think they are closer to Catholics beliefs in Sainthood. They do believe in one God & that Jesus is the son of God. Beyond that, their beliefs depart drastically from my own. I am searching for a post by a mormon reader that gave an excellent description of their faith.

I can tell you that I have always been impressed with Mormons that I have met. They exhibited what I would consider "Christian-like" behaviors that I think we all could learn from.

I respectfully disagree. I have read many books about this religion. Here is one explanation. The internet is filled with information.

http://wri.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/mormon-god.html:

Christianity has taught monotheism from its foundation, the belief in the existence of one God. Mormonism believes in the existence of a plurality of gods. According to Mormonism, there are an infinite number of planets like earth in the universe, each with their god or gods who were once men who have evolved into godhood. Mormon theologian and Apostle Bruce McConkie states, "[A] plurality of gods exist . . . there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods."{3}

Joseph Smith wrote, "In the beginning, the head of the gods called a council of the gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and (the) people in it."{4}

The Pearl of Great Price states in the Book of Abraham, "And they (the gods) said: let there be light and there was light. And they (the gods) comprehended the light, . . . and the gods called the light Day and the darkness they called Night. . . ." In these two chapters, the plural designation "gods" is used over fifty times.

Although they believe that numerous gods exist, Mormons consider themselves to be monotheists because they focus their worship exclusively on the Godhead of this earth. With this being the case, a more accurate description of Mormon practice is henotheism, a form of polytheism that stresses a central deity.

 

[barb0301]

It looks like the children will not be placed in individual foster homes, rather in larger group facilities to allow more of them to stay together.

"Once experts complete the testing, the children will be placed into large group facilities, rather than individual foster homes, in an effort to keep family members together, Cunningham said."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5714465.html

I do applaud the state for doing everything possible to keep the kids in family units.

 

[Leila]

SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) - "Adult mothers who have been allowed to stay with their young children since they were taken from a polygamous sect will be separated from them after DNA sampling is completed next week, a child welfare official said Saturday.

Now, only mothers younger than 18 will be allowed to remain with their children once the sampling is complete. The welfare agency will also try to keep siblings together, he said."

This is good. Those mothers under 18 are also victims of abuse, and of all the mothers, the most likely to want to leave the FLDS. Once they feel comfortable and develop trust with the social workers, they may provide good evidence for the state's case.

 

[LinasK]

I don't think this topic has been addressed. Since many women remain with the men at the compound, what's to keep them from getting pregnant? Has no one thought this may be in the "works" by FLDS?

That definitely occurred to me, they'll just start over with a new crop! These people need to be mandatorily sterilized!!!

 

[LinasK]

it's not child abuse for a 19 year old and a 16 year old to get together.

Yes it is- it's called statutory rape!!! That wasn't directed at you Molly- it was at the idiot who said that.

 

[LovingTheChaos]

I respectfully disagree. I have read many books about this religion. Here is one explanation. The internet is filled with information.

http://wri.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/mormon-god.html:

Christianity has taught monotheism from its foundation, the belief in the existence of one God. Mormonism believes in the existence of a plurality of gods. According to Mormonism, there are an infinite number of planets like earth in the universe, each with their god or gods who were once men who have evolved into godhood. Mormon theologian and Apostle Bruce McConkie states, "[A] plurality of gods exist . . . there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods."{3}

Joseph Smith wrote, "In the beginning, the head of the gods called a council of the gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and (the) people in it."{4}

The Pearl of Great Price states in the Book of Abraham, "And they (the gods) said: let there be light and there was light. And they (the gods) comprehended the light, . . . and the gods called the light Day and the darkness they called Night. . . ." In these two chapters, the plural designation "gods" is used over fifty times.

Although they believe that numerous gods exist, Mormons consider themselves to be monotheists because they focus their worship exclusively on the Godhead of this earth. With this being the case, a more accurate description of Mormon practice is henotheism, a form of polytheism that stresses a central deity.

Pepper - I know that the internet is full of information - I can do a search and find out why Catholics are not really Christians as well. I can also do a search that will tell me why evangelicals are evil. How many mormons have you talked to? The internet is filled with information alright - including mis-information. My sister & BIL are ex-fundies, I have heard it all.
I

 

[Floh]

Pepper - I know that the internet is full of information - I can do a search and find out why Catholics are not really Christians as well. I can also do a search that will tell me why evangelicals are evil. How many mormons have you talked to? The internet is filled with information alright - including mis-information. My sister & BIL are ex-fundies, I have heard it all.
I

Great they left! :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[SuziQ]

Pepper - I know that the internet is full of information - I can do a search and find out why Catholics are not really Christians as well. I can also do a search that will tell me why evangelicals are evil. How many mormons have you talked to? The internet is filled with information alright - including mis-information. My sister & BIL are ex-fundies, I have heard it all.
I

ITA about the information out there. While researching the LDS Church over the past few days, I've found alot of info that is simply not not true and downright confusing. To weigh in on who's a Christian, I was taught as a child in Baptist Sunday school that it was anyone who believes in Christ.

ETA: I haven't delved into the LDS Church deep enough to determine why they believe they are Christians. I've had my hands full trying to sort out the Joseph Smith polygamy mess. I do know that the LDS members I know consider themselves Christians.