Flies and Maggots in the trunk - forensic entomology #1

[chefmom]

It isn't just the insects you do find that is important. Sometimes the insects you DON'T find tell a story.


From the e-mails between OCSO and the Body Farm:

Mike, forgot to mention something in my last email. I FINALLY got a call back from Dr. Neal Haskell, my entomologist friend, and he said that the ‘fruit flies’ may really be coffin flies and that might be significant. He said that if you still have them to please send them to him at the following address and he will check them out.
​

Coffin flies are called "coffin" flies because they can manipulate themselves through small crevices and spaces to get to a body--even bodies that are underground in coffins. Blow flies and house flies, which are usually the first to get to dead body, can't. Unless Caylee was sealed up in the trunk before she died or shortly afterward, blow flies would have laid eggs on her body. That's why not finding any signs of blow flies and house flies would be of significance.

Here's an aticle about a case that was solved by Dr. Haskell because there were "coffin flies" and NO "blow flies": http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/science/12file-fly.html?_r=2&hp&ex=&ei=&partner=

I think these "coffin flies" may be one of the final nails in KC's coffin! Just saying. :furious:

 

[Jolynna]

I think these "coffin flies" may be one of the final nails in KC's coffin! Just saying. :furious:

Bugs have been the smoking gun in other cases.

No blow flies and the adipocere found on the napkins would suggest Caylee's body was sealed in the trunk either right after or just before death. Adipocere forms where oxygen is low to zilch.

Putrefactive organisms, of which Clostridium welchii is most active, are important, and adipocere formation is facilitated by post-mortem invasion of the tissues by commensal bacteria.A warm, moist, anaerobic environment favours adipocere formation
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:iVK2LmuGbREJ:www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/Lecture%2520Notes%2520in%2520Forensic%2520Medicine %2520Derrick%2520Pounder%252048pages.pdf+warm+mois t+airtight+environment+corpse&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk& gl=us

Clostridium: A group of anaerobic bacteria (bacteria that thrive in the absence of oxygen). There are 100+ species of Clostridium. They include, for examples, Clostridium difficile, Clostridium perfringens (also called Clostridium welchii), and Clostridium botulinum.http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=6539

This is the key to adipocere formation; the bacteria that convert the body's fat to adipocere are anaerobic. These bacteria digest body fat, excreting adipocere and ammonial gases. They do not work well when exposed to air, which is why adipocere rarely forms on body parts exposed to air. Another important factor is the limiting of scavengers and insect larvae. http://www.angelfire.com/wa/zzaran/Adipocere.html

An exception is provided by the formation of adipocere under air-tight conditions. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8908987​

 

[magic-cat]

"11-5-08 Telcall w/SA Cowan-some items (napkins) from trashbag in car were sent to entomologist-that examiner noted 'coffin flies' being present as well as 'grave wax' or 'death wax'; these hairs submitted were found w/in bag and/or adhered to napkins/paper-towel-like paper-check for decomp OCSO does have additional napkins that were in trash bag that did not go to entomologist. Plant life was also in bag-a forensic botanist(David Hall) is working on those items..."

This is an excerpt from hand-written notes from the FBI's Laboratory Activity and Communications Log and this note is dated 11-5-08. This is from page 1057 of 1405 of this document:
http://www.wftv.com/download/2009/1009/21252103.pdf

Plant life was in the bag??? What on earth was THAT?:waitasec:

Anyhow...it seems these coffin flies might be a most important part of this puzzle, huh?

 

[3doglady]

Plant life was in the bag??? What on earth was THAT?

Snipped from Maggic Cat

BJB suggested earlier that the paper towels may have been used by KC to clean her shoes. If the bag leaked on her shoes while she was dumping it in the woods, plant life would be present on the towels also. Sounds more like KC to be more concerned with cleaning her shoes than the trunk.

 

[magic-cat]

Plant life was in the bag??? What on earth was THAT?

Snipped from Maggic Cat

BJB suggested earlier that the paper towels may have been used by KC to clean her shoes. If the bag leaked on her shoes while she was dumping it in the woods, plant life would be present on the towels also. Sounds more like KC to be more concerned with cleaning her shoes than the trunk.

If that were the case, would they have called it "plant life"??? I would think there would be another more suitable word if it was just crumbs off of a shoe...:waitasec:

 

[truckengirl]

The insect test results were released to the defense last week so we should be getting them soon. I'm hoping there's something good in the report since JB and BC has been quiet and haven't mentioned the reports and havent held a news conferences about results. I feel it will link Caylee to the trunk. There's some reason the defense is on a mission filing all these new motions.

 

[suepitzl]

in reading the angel fire link above in jolynna's post, i think it was quite possible that the body had reached and completed the putrefication stage.............sounds sick but it would seem to fit the huge stain in the trunk, you would haave to read the link to understand what I mean........just sick, sick, sick........

 

[suepitzl]

By a week after death, gases produced by bacterial and chemical processes begin to cause bloating of bodies. Internally, the bacteria that all humans live with every day, such as those found in the digestive tract, continue working on. But instead of the friendly bacteria's food source being what humans eat for food, it is now the dead human body itself which is consumed. Internal organs begin to liquefy. Within two weeks from onset of death, there is a bloody purge of putrefying liquid from the mouth, nose, anus, or any other opening. The stench from the rotting corpse is overwhelmingly powerful, if within an enclosed space.
*snipped from adicopere article, would lend credence to the body being in the trunk for a longer period of time, such as until the 26th of june.......just my opinion

 

[Oakley]

By a week after death, gases produced by bacterial and chemical processes begin to cause bloating of bodies. Internally, the bacteria that all humans live with every day, such as those found in the digestive tract, continue working on. But instead of the friendly bacteria's food source being what humans eat for food, it is now the dead human body itself which is consumed. Internal organs begin to liquefy. Within two weeks from onset of death, there is a bloody purge of putrefying liquid from the mouth, nose, anus, or any other opening. The stench from the rotting corpse is overwhelmingly powerful, if within an enclosed space.
*snipped from adicopere article, would lend credence to the body being in the trunk for a longer period of time, such as until the 26th of june.......just my opinion

I was surprised to learn of the 2.5 days in the forensic reports. Seemed to me it had been a bit longer than that. But don't recall specifically why I thought that at the time.

 

[Jolynna]

By a week after death, gases produced by bacterial and chemical processes begin to cause bloating of bodies. Internally, the bacteria that all humans live with every day, such as those found in the digestive tract, continue working on. But instead of the friendly bacteria's food source being what humans eat for food, it is now the dead human body itself which is consumed. Internal organs begin to liquefy. Within two weeks from onset of death, there is a bloody purge of putrefying liquid from the mouth, nose, anus, or any other opening. The stench from the rotting corpse is overwhelmingly powerful, if within an enclosed space.
*snipped from adicopere article, would lend credence to the body being in the trunk for a longer period of time, such as until the 26th of june.......just my opinion

The whole process would be in fast forward for a 30 lb.toddler. Kids putrefy much more rapidly. Caylee was clothed, swaddled in a blanket and inside plastic bags. Unembalmed with blood in her veins, in the Florda heat to make the gasses inside Caylee's body swell, it was a perfect bacteria breeding ground.

You are right, the smell would have been awful.

 

[RR0004]

The whole process would be in fast forward for a 30 lb.toddler. Kids putrefy much more rapidly. Caylee was clothed, swaddled in a blanket and inside plastic bags. Unembalmed with blood in her veins, in the Florda heat to make the gasses inside Caylee's body swell, it was a perfect bacteria breeding ground.

You are right, the smell would have been awful.

This makes my heart hurt so!

 

[magic-cat]

The whole process would be in fast forward for a 30 lb.toddler. Kids putrefy much more rapidly. Caylee was clothed, swaddled in a blanket and inside plastic bags. Unembalmed with blood in her veins, in the Florda heat to make the gasses inside Caylee's body swell, it was a perfect bacteria breeding ground.

You are right, the smell would have been awful.

And as Cindy told us all in her final 911 call, it WAS awful and smelled just like what it was "a dead body in the damned car"!

 

[faefrost]

Plant life was in the bag??? What on earth was THAT?

Snipped from Maggic Cat

BJB suggested earlier that the paper towels may have been used by KC to clean her shoes. If the bag leaked on her shoes while she was dumping it in the woods, plant life would be present on the towels also. Sounds more like KC to be more concerned with cleaning her shoes than the trunk.

Another possibility is the plant matter came from around the A home. Remember the cadaver dogs did have some strong hits from the backyard. We have long suspected that KC originally tried to find a place to dispose of her back there, but the ground and growth was more then she could manage in a short time.

 

[snow_walker]

I wonder if the plant material could have been potpourri? Intended to disguise the odour. Not that it would have done much, but then neither would those fabric softener sheets.

 

[celticthyme]

So sorry for this question, but does the 2.5 days in the trunk then mean . . .

1) she had to have been somewhere else BEFORE she was in the trunk
2) because of the flies and plant life
3) because of the amount of leakage from decomposition??

or what could it mean Thanks

 

[celticthyme]

"11-5-08 Telcall w/SA Cowan-some items (napkins) from trashbag in car were sent to entomologist-that examiner noted 'coffin flies' being present as well as 'grave wax' or 'death wax'; these hairs submitted were found w/in bag and/or adhered to napkins/paper-towel-like paper-check for decomp OCSO does have additional napkins that were in trash bag that did not go to entomologist. Plant life was also in bag-a forensic botanist(David Hall) is working on those items..."

This is an excerpt from hand-written notes from the FBI's Laboratory Activity and Communications Log and this note is dated 11-5-08. This is from page 1057 of 1405 of this document:
http://www.wftv.com/download/2009/1009/21252103.pdf

Plant life was in the bag??? What on earth was THAT?:waitasec:

Anyhow...it seems these coffin flies might be a most important part of this puzzle, huh?

And don't the coffin flies indicate a live body in the trunk???

 

[magic-cat]

So sorry for this question, but does the 2.5 days in the trunk then mean . . .

1) she had to have been somewhere else BEFORE she was in the trunk
2) because of the flies and plant life
3) because of the amount of leakage from decomposition??

or what could it mean Thanks

Not real sure about the plant life, however; the flies, which have been stated to have been 'coffin flies" actually would be more indicative of the fact that she went into the trunk LIVE or very shortly after her death. Blow flies land on the body within about 20 minutes of death I think...but coffin flies can tunnel in to places that are SEALED, like a coffin or a trunk for instance...if there are coffin flies and NO blow flies? Then Casey is in some serious trouble!

 

[suepitzl]

As I understand it, the air tests from the Body Farm state that the odor is consistent with a body being in the trunk for at least 2.6 days......However, as I understand it, the body could then have been placed in something (Whitney Laundry Bag), which would decrease the odor in the air, and still be stored in the trunk. IMO, that large of a stain in the trunk indicates putrification had occured, before she was placed in the whitney bag......Perhaps the plastic garbage bags leaked, or she was not even placed in any thing other than the pooh blanket, then the putrification occured prompting the horrible smell, which KC tried to stifle by triple bagging her? I really don't know, but still believe the stain in the trunk was a result of the putrification stage being complete and as Jolynna mentioned, it would occur more rapidly in a 30 lb victim in the FL heat.

 

[suepitzl]

bringing this over froma very early thread from 2.6 days in the trunk, interesting explanation on anareobic.....
days -

The FBI reports released are not all of the trunk evidence, many reports are still missing such as soil samples, maggot testing etc. but from these 34 pages here is what it states…..Caylee died and was placed somewhere first (doll house) and after the decomp process started; Caylee was placed in an air tight container such as a plastic bag and decomp started to break down the destruction of cells and organs due to an aseptic chemical process. When the body's cells reach the final stage of autolysis, an anaerobic environment is created, that is, an environment wherein oxygen is not present. This allows the body's normal bacteria to break down the remaining carbohydrates, proteins, and lipids. The products from the breakdown create acids, gases, and other products which cause volatile organic compounds (VOCs), and putrefactive effects. VOCs are produced during the early stages of human decomposition. This is the exact decomp the FBI lab found in the trunk which means that Caylee was dead 2.6 days before the decomp juices leaked in the trunk.

aka- the juices are that of a decomp at 2.6 days

***it could also be caylee died in the trunk and was there 2.6 days of decomp staged juices; then moved****

 

[magic-cat]

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/1106/21539770.pdf

Here it is folks! Coffin flies in the trunk and blow flies!!!