For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

Discussion in 'Netflix Series: Making A Murderer' started by Madeleine74, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    IMO each release of new information and documents makes Avery and Dassey look more culpable.

    Did you notice in that motion in limine I posted a couple days ago, one of the statements was Dassey allegedly telling a female (initials C. F.) that "she better be careful she could end up like Teresa." Now tell me again how BD was so mentally compromised he was like a 7 yr old.



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  2. Limaes

    Limaes Active Member

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    If he is as mentally compromised as his attorneys claim, and doesn't understand the difference between right and wrong, why on earth should he be let out amongst society? He was capable of standing up to his uncle when he tried to force him to get in his mother's car one time, but he wasn't capable of telling LE he wanted to go home or yes, I want my mum to be in here. smh

    JMO
     
  3. Limaes

    Limaes Active Member

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    I have seen talk of KZ's tests not being favourable to SA and will be revealed soon. Personally, I believe there is already more than enough evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but very curious to learn what it is if this is true.

    JMO
     
  4. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    Please provide a link or a source as to where you have "seen talk of KZ's tests not being favourable to SA". Or, if you are an insider on this case, please see the link below that walks you through the verification process:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-Process-for-Professional-or-Insider-Posters
     
  5. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    I'm curious too. I'm hoping the results, whenever they come back, will be something definitive.
     
  6. IDK

    IDK Active Member

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    Thanks for including the word "allegedly" in your post. Makes all the difference in the world, IMO.
     
  7. RANCH

    RANCH Well-Known Member

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  8. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    Thanks for the heads-up RANCH.

    I recorded the episode and am always glad to be able to fast forward through commercials.

    Seeing everything, or as much as possible, that has been amassed in the case presents a very different reality, IMO. A 42 minute show can't get into the depth and scope of detail necessary, but at least anyone tuning in who wasn't previously aware now knows there's more to the case, and if they decide they want to learn more, they can.
     
  9. Limaes

    Limaes Active Member

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    Just caught part of the show. If I ever found myself in the Halbach's nightmare situation, I would want Kratz & Fassbender (and throw in Steve Thomas from the JBR case) in there fighting and standing up for my loved one.

    JB is a complete and utter dirt bag that went beyond a former Defense Attorney role with his denial of SA's history of abuse against women.

    Have to go out for a while but will watch the rest later.

    JMO

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  10. Limaes

    Limaes Active Member

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    I see I'm not the only one taking a break from this case 😊

    I did end up watching the entire Dr.Phil show and was astounded that Buting was pushing the same ol' stories and accusations. He failed to prove them at trial and he still fails to prove them in the 10+ years since. JMO

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  11. RANCH

    RANCH Well-Known Member

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    I read a good portion of Zellners motion. I was surprised when it appeared that the focus of it is ineffective assistance of counsel.

    I was chastised by many when I bought up the idea that Buting and Strang did such a poor job of defending Avery that it looked like ineffective assistance of counsel to me. I was told that it wasn't.

    Should I believe Zellner?
     
  12. Limaes

    Limaes Active Member

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    Wonder what happened to his airtight alibi and cell tower pings? 😊
     
  13. Limaes

    Limaes Active Member

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    It's strange that there is a lot of discussion about alibis of Teresa's friends and no one mentions the fact that it is SA that has no alibi.

    Been reading many comments about KK & TF at CrimeCon including those in the media. It is so great that the truth is finally coming out and the misleading documentary, along with their cheer squad, are finally being exposed.

    You can't keep a good truth down. It always rises. 😊

    JMO

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  14. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    Hi All,

    You're way ahead of me as I've only read bits and pieces of this brief. So far we've learned:

    - Zellner didn't use the cell tower data or cell phone pings she swore would prove Avery's alibi. Avery has no alibi.

    - Zellner conceded it was fresh (2005) blood of her client in the SUV.

    - Zellner said LE didn't plant the blood or the body, despite a year plus of Avery supporters claiming it to be so.

    - Loof the tracking dog hit on SA's trailer and around towards the back.

    - There were multiple 'hits' by different tracking canines -- one set of canines tracked TH's scent and another set of canines (including Brutus), were human remains detection dogs.

    - The deer camp trailer was not where canine Loof was tracking or hitting -- the 'red trailer' was none other than SA's.

    - The "mystery witness" Zellner tweeted about is none other than the lying murderer himself, whose lies have been well documented.

    - The calls by Avery to AT claiming TH never showed are detailed in a document she included in her brief.

    - TH's friend from AT claims that it was twice that SA met TH wearing only a towel. That statement is included in a document as part of the brief.

    - After tweeting months ago about "mind reading not being evidence," in her brief she advances a type of mind-reading as evidence which is called "Brain Fingerprinting."

    - And, in a massive stroke of irony where she railed against people accusing her client without evidence, Zellner herself, without any evidence whatsoever, floats a ridiculous story that the ex-boyfriend from half a decade back was TH's murderer and he somehow entered SA's trailer at the exact right time, without any detection, acquired Avery's freshly-dripped blood within a few mere minutes of Avery leaving that blood and then leaving the property, planted this blood in TH's SUV, then planted the SUV on the berm. How did RH get home? In her story she has him leaving the SUV behind. Did he walk the 30 miles? She never said. Must have been a magic carpet.

    The eyerolling is just beginning.
     
  15. Limaes

    Limaes Active Member

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    Hi Madeleine

    How bizarre that KZ released so much info that is damaging to her own client?

    Hoping to get time to read the affidavits today. Looks like the airtight alibi wasn't so airtight LOL
     
  16. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    Hi Limaes!

    I guess you're having winter now? Hope you're staying warm. Here it's HOT.

    I've seen various opinions on what Zellner is trying to do with this brief. One opinion is Zellner's trying to align the case to the release of MaM2 and endeavored to create a story for the series, and that she doesn't really believe RH had anything to do with TH's murder. More cynical types have opined maybe she's trying to dump her guilty client and back away since she knows he did it.

    She didn't even have the C14 test run, which she made a big deal about late summer/early fall last year.

    Her burden was high, as she has reminded people, she has to prove him innocent. She was trying to go for exoneration, not a new trial. This huge document doesn't prove SA innocent, and while she's attempted to name "the killer," there's no evidence linking him to the murder. Since Teresa herself didn't know she'd be at ASY until later morning of Oct 31, RH couldn't have known her schedule. The brief contains lots of conjecture and speculation, but so far no evidence to implicate him.

    I don't think she met her stated goal with this brief and I don't think it's even close. It wouldn't surprise me if she saw the writing on the wall months ago.
     
  17. Limaes

    Limaes Active Member

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    Yes, winter time here atm. Time for weekends spent in front of the TV. Wonder if there is any good Netflix documentaries coming up? 😊

    My longtime feelings is that this is all about putting together a second series. That brief only appeases the deeply entrenched supporters, not a court imo.

    As far as the timing, I think her filing just 2 days before CrimeCon is too big of a coincidence to ignore. She filed on the Wednesday, by Friday (when Fassbender & Kratz debuted at CrimeCon) the public had copies of the brief and all talk was on that.

    What a shame the filmakers weren't interested in making their own appearance at the convention. Perhaps they didn't want to answer any tough questions from the public...their viewers?

    From what I have read so far, SA supporters have to ignore the evidence in their queen's brief if they wish to keep pushing the same theories they have been since day one.

    Her brief is a gift to guilters. All the things we keep saying e.g Loof alerted from Avery's trailer, not the deer camp one etc have been validated by her. 😂

    How funny that one of her witnesses is SA? LOL He has changed his story AGAIN!

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  18. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    LOL @ good Netflix documentaries. I can highly recommend "House of Cards." And that title works well for the nearly 1,300 page brief. ;-D

    Did you see the tweet she put out about a month ago in which she said (paraphrasing) she couldn't care less about the supporters and they have no clue about the complexity of the case... She rejected the theories sent to her and actually insulted SA's followers. She was happy to take all their donations though (so much for the self-funded claim).

    Not only did Zellner fail to prove the things she would prove, the brief is filled with "ifs," "could haves" and speculation up the wazoo. She swore the testing would prove her client innocent, no maybes. It did not. It actually removed major pieces of the conspiracy that were proposed by followers. I've seen people who were waiting patiently for that tsunami she promised and when they finally got it and read what it contained they realized it was a whole lot of nothing. I've seen at least a dozen people say they're "disappointed" in the brief's contents, and they're "confused" by what they had been promised.

    She admitted LE did not plant things despite insisting it was so. She's now tried to pass it all off to RH.

    Remember how it was claimed TH's key was rubbed on SA's slippers? The brief says absolutely not.
    Remember how it was claimed TH's phone pings proved she was in or near Whitlaw? Never mentioned in the brief.

    This was her best effort, her one shot. As with her prior motion, there are many mistakes being listed and detailed elsewhere, dozens of discrepancies and even some outright mistruths.
     
  19. Limaes

    Limaes Active Member

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    I haven't got through it all yet but there is so many things that make no sense at all.

    Remember her August filing? She erroneously claimed that Radant could not have seen the fire behind the garage because it was not viewable from where he was even though his statement (that she included) clearly says it was the BURN BARREL. Now, she is using his affidavit and saying he never told investigators he seen the burn pit fire and that it was the BURN BARREL. lol Ohh myy ggod! The only person that claimed he said the burn pit...was HER! This is some bat s**t crazy stuff.

    I've read a bit about the "groin swab" caper. Lol She claims the expert says the sample with his DNA was never used to swab the hood latch but the expert actually discusses the quantity of hood latch debris on this same swab. If it wasn't used on the hood latch, then how the heck did he get hood latch debris on his groin?

    I was expecting a dodgy brief, but this has exceeded my expectations by a country mile.

    And yes, I did hear about her insulting the supporters, which is strange because wasn't she asking for their "tips" not long before?

    For the Halbach's sake I hope this goes no further so they do not have to relive it again. If it does, I will enjoy seeing SA testifying and finally answering to his many lies and changing stories.

    All JMO 😊


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  20. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant Well-Known Member

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