Found Deceased France - Émile S., 2, outside grandparent’s house, Le Vernet, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, 8 July 2023

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In my opinion where DM is indicating the body was found is my purple circle. About 100m from the grandparents' home as opposed to 1km. Different by a factor of 10.

Here’s the DM map. They have it within the area outline that looks like a cat to me:
1712135085359.png

Just noting: I’ve been on a few searches as a volunteer. I now live on the North Altlantic coast over a mountain. There was a local search that took place in my area and it was treacherous for everyone involved. Even for the helicopters. So I’m just trying to understand the maps because I understand the limitations in what they can indicate.

To cover one square kilometre quickly in my area would take hundreds of volunteers because of the challenging terrain. But if you look at it from an areal map it looks pretty straightforward.
 
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Here’s the DM map. They have it within the area outline that looks like a cat to me:
View attachment 494584
I think it's not an accurate map. The prosecutor didn't show any specific map they don't want to show the exact location. But they indicate the name of the trails and the fact that it's an intersection between 4 paths next to a small water stream.


Screenshot_20240403-074637~2.png

Red circle : grand father's house
Yellow : saint Pancras chapelle
Blue : possible location i think the one on the left is the right one.
 
Thank you.

I’m still a bit lost between the differences in the maps. Isn’t that a line drawing of the town? Could you indicate the grandfather’s home on your map and where the remains were found?

The DM is showing the remains were found closer to the home than the French newspaper is indicating. It’s confusing to me because the paths on the French site where they believe the remains were found and the streets of the town on the DM map look similar.

Do you have a link to the map that the prosecutor used? I’m having trouble finding a third source (other media are using the DM’s map).
The DM map seems to indicate the remains on a field, but we do know that it's not the case but we don't have an exact map so i'm just trying to guess with the little amount of info we have at the moment. Maybe i'm wrong
 
I think it's not an accurate map. The prosecutor didn't show any specific map they don't want to show the exact location. But they indicate the name of the trails and the fact that it's an intersection between 4 paths next to a small water stream.


View attachment 494586

Red circle : grand father's house
Yellow : saint Pancras chapelle
Blue : possible location i think the one on the left is the right one.
Near a small water stream? I mean, pick one.
1712138625882.png
 
A big thank you, everyone, who has been untangling the mess with the location of the remains!
It has been driving me crazy, because basically every other newspaper had a completely different description of the place (including distance from the grandparents house) and it has been rare for maps to highlight the same place, too. Extremely confusing.

First i saw - found pretty much within the the village, like 200-400m from home on a very public road - well, this is kinda odd that the remains were so close and not found.
Then - found pretty much in the farthest and deepest ravine that was visible on the maps, several km away - well, makes sense for a place a skull could roll to, seems kinda too far for him to have walked on this landscape, though. But maybe the remains were moved long distances by a bigger mammal or bird? Dunno. All options open.
Then - found 1-2 km away, on a trail "downhill". Well, this for one, might make sense.

I’m still a bit lost between the differences in the maps. Isn’t that a line drawing of the town? Could you indicate the grandfather’s home on your map and where the remains were found?

The DM is showing the remains were found closer to the home than the French newspaper is indicating.

hvtemp.png

In my opinion where DM is indicating the body was found is my purple circle. About 100m from the grandparents' home as opposed to 1km.

The prosecutor didn't show any specific map they don't want to show the exact location. But they indicate the name of the trails and the fact that it's an intersection between 4 paths next to a small water stream.

Screenshot_20240403-074637~2.png


Red circle : grand father's house
Yellow : saint Pancras chapelle
Blue : possible location i think the one on the left is the right one
I understand that the investigators do not want to map the exact location and this is understandable. I hope they find more bones etc, though I am afraid the CoD will legally stay as "undetermined" forever.
 
2 cents— Maybe he unfortunately did pass away in a stream that was running fast in July but it eventually slowed down or dried up enough to reveal his remains? Then scavenging animals became involved?
 
The DM map seems to indicate the remains on a field, but we do know that it's not the case but we don't have an exact map so i'm just trying to guess with the little amount of info we have at the moment. Maybe i'm wrong

It’s not you, really. The one newspaper seems to be very far off, but the landmarks look similar. Add to that some of the officials quoted seem to be giving differing descriptions. I’m confused!
 
Many true crime followers and followers of fictional crimes would likely know about not taking or moving anything at a crime scene or where remains are found.

But I'm sure there are also many who would have no idea that taking a skull or other remains to LE or police is something they shouldn't do.
I'd have thought most people would be grossed out by finding such a thing.
 
Actually, I don’t see that at all. The approach used by SAR is proven to rely on fantastic data, and the searches themselves generate even more data. The method has been honed over the years, and is also used by the military. It has saved many lives, and kept SAR out of risky situations.

Also, the approach has netted very few failures when it comes to children in wild areas.

New catalogs of missing persons are added to the databases all the time, always refining the data.

You can try out the new app from the Department of Homeland Security to get an idea of the protocols. Lost Person Behavior App | Homeland Security

Standard search parameter is 72 hours. Outside of that time frame, survival is minimal. The search continues under special circumstances. Keep in mind, SAR is volunteer; these folks have jobs and lives they have to go to.

A special circumstance example was the young woman on the spectrum who went missing on Vancouver Island last year. There was extra challenge in that her decisionmaking might have been very creative (she might have done something most adults wouldn’t choose to do in that situation). That search kept going for a while.

Usually, a child is “special circumstance”.

Families do get unhappy when searches end at 72 hours—and SAR doesn’t like it much, either—but searches aren’t risk-free, either. SAR is often out in dangerous situations. Managers have to weigh risk and reward. E.g. the Matrosova case sent SAR into extreme danger. The odds of getting blasted off a mountain were extremely high, as was the likelihood of perishing from cold.

Matrosova story: Where You’ll Find Me
I’m sorry but I just can’t understand how anyone can look at what’s happened here and think this was handled well. The major search was called off after 4 days (97 hectares so 555m radius), with targeted efforts after that, and his remains were found ~1km away.

Granted it’s an effort for police, gendarmes or whoever and yes that’s a cost. But this is not the surface of Mars they’re searching.
 
I’m sorry but I just can’t understand how anyone can look at what’s happened here and think this was handled well. The major search was called off after 4 days (97 hectares so 555m radius), with targeted efforts after that, and his remains were found ~1km away.

Granted it’s an effort for police, gendarmes or whoever and yes that’s a cost. But this is not the surface of Mars they’re searching.
Would it not be a possibility that families and neighbours would go out looking at weekends etc etc
 
Here’s the DM map. They have it within the area outline that looks like a cat to me:
1712135085359.png
Look at the proportions. DM has put the remains so that the bottom of the village, near the church (not the chapel) is equidistant between the remains and the grandparents' house. I maintain my purple circle as corresponding to the DM's red concentric rings.

I wish we could get something definite. IMO there's no way that the bones were missed that close to the main residential area of the hamlet. On the other hand the 1km-distant site is left extremely vague. And wasn't there a suggestion that someone saw Emile at the level of the mountain paths, something like that? I wonder in what direction that allegedly was.
 
Would it not be a possibility that families and neighbours would go out looking at weekends etc etc

Possibly, however, if they believed that the search was conclusive and that someone must have taken the boy, then they might have stopped searching.
I wonder how persuasive the mayor was in his belief that the child could not have walked beyond the search area.
 
Possibly, however, if they believed that the search was conclusive and that someone must have taken the boy, then they might have stopped searching.
I wonder how persuasive the mayor was in his belief that the child could not have walked beyond the search area.
Speaking of the mayor... From the beginning I have wondered how local politics, influential residents and power of the Church have fit into this case. moo
 
Speaking of the mayor... From the beginning I have wondered how local politics, influential residents and power of the Church have fit into this case. moo

I would think that Search and Rescue has a text-book protocol that they follow in a situation like this, so that are aren't influenced by extraneous matters. But someone like the mayor might influence people who would otherwise continue the search after the formal search is over. The mayor was so sure the boy couldn't walk beyond the search area, but he never gave a good reason for his opinion. Did that influence LE to suspect a predator? I don't know.
 
I would think that Search and Rescue has a text-book protocol that they follow in a situation like this, so that are aren't influenced by extraneous matters. But someone like the mayor might influence people who would otherwise continue the search after the formal search is over. The mayor was so sure the boy couldn't walk beyond the search area, but he never gave a good reason for his opinion. Did that influence LE to suspect a predator? I don't know.
I doubt this and have followed closely from the outset.
 
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