France - 5 shot, 4 dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications, 2012 #2

Whoa! Talk about 'conspiracies!' This gets more curious by the day. :eek:

So the husband/wife/wife's mom and a stranger, all murdered. Same day, across the globe in the U.S., the wife's secret ex- also mysteriously dies. Then LE questioned a guy who was highly trained in weapons, etc., and after LE questioning, said non-suspect allegedly commits suicide.

There is no coincidence when it comes to murder.

A true mystery!!
:sleuth:

JMHO
fran
 
WTF ?

You really couldn't make this **** up !

Iraqi 'hitman' held over Al-Hilli murders in French Alps

suspected Iraqi contract killer was arrested by police in connection with the murder of the British family in the French Alps, it emerged today.

The 35-year-old convicted criminal was questioned for three days about the shootings.......

In another extraordinary twist investigators revealed that Mrs Al-Hilli had a “secret ex-husband” in America who died of a suspected heart attack on the same day as the murders

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/iraqi-hitman-held-over-alhilli-murders-9591626.html
 
WTF ?

You really couldn't make this **** up !

Iraqi 'hitman' held over Al-Hilli murders in French Alps

suspected Iraqi contract killer was arrested by police in connection with the murder of the British family in the French Alps, it emerged today.

The 35-year-old convicted criminal was questioned for three days about the shootings.......

In another extraordinary twist investigators revealed that Mrs Al-Hilli had a “secret ex-husband” in America who died of a suspected heart attack on the same day as the murders

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/iraqi-hitman-held-over-alhilli-murders-9591626.html


If you read further, this guy mentioned supplied an alibi which was verified, but he's still being held on unrelated charges.

So that means whoever is still out there.

JMHO
fran
 
At first I was intrigued by the headlines, but when I read the actual "news" articles...well, I was less than impressed.
This all sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. (Please pardon my skepticism.)

"He's a dentist. No he's not." "They were married (for less than a year, many years ago). That might have been the cause of the murder.'' Say what??

This all seems like smoke and mirrors to me. Unless the 'dentist' was involved in espionage, then I don't believe this story.
 
This case just keeps getting stranger and stranger. I really hate coincidences and this is one hell of a coincidence.
 
At first I was intrigued by the headlines, but when I read the actual "news" articles...well, I was less than impressed.
This all sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. (Please pardon my skepticism.)

"He's a dentist. No he's not." "They were married (for less than a year, many years ago). That might have been the cause of the murder.'' Say what??

This all seems like smoke and mirrors to me. Unless the 'dentist' was involved in espionage, then I don't believe this story.

A new U.S. passport would be especially useful to a spy/terrorist. Interesting that the ex had ties to the mob and oil industry. Still looks like a compartmentalized, state-sponsored or "deep state" hit to me; how many folks could carry that off on two continents simultaneously?

When they keep letting these folks off because there's "no connection" to the family etc... that's what "compartmentalized" means. The operatives have no connection to anyone else, even other participants in the plot.

It's Assassination 101.

p.s. The misinformation about the ex being a dentist seems to have come from the police spokesman, not the press. The wife Iqbal was studying for a dental career.
 
About James T the first husband of Mrs Al-Hilli:

Annecy prosecutor Eric Maillaud said: "He died from a heart attack on 5 September 2012. This was confirmed by an American doctor. No link is being made with the Chevaline killings."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28221435
 
Very strange.

The most significant evidence seems to be the crime scene and the story it tells as to how the killing went down. Either from Zainab's (the 7 year old child) account or somehow based on forensics, it is believed SM was the first person shot. Apparently there was blood splatter from SM on the shoes of both Zainab and Saad Al-Hilli. SM was well off of the roadway when he was shot. He was "interacting with Saad. 'Saad was then able to jump in the vehicle pull forward, apparently running over SM and then backing up, most likely to align the vehicle so that he could pull out onto the road and escape. When PM arrived on the scene, the vehicle was backed into the dirt and the wheel was spinning. Most likely, Saad had lost consciousness while backing up.

It has been reported that 21 shots were fired from 3 clips that held 7 rounds each. It has been reported that few if any of the shots missed their mark and PM was shot 5 times. We don't know where and how many times the others were shot but the fact that all of the adults were dead when PM checked minutes later suggests multiple head wounds. Anyone who has experience with a handgun knows that they are very inaccurate, even at short range, unless you know what you are doing. This guy did.

There seems to be no getting around the fact that the killer wanted both SM and all of the al-Hilli group dead. Had he been a Hit Man targeting just SM, it is inconceivable that he would have killed an entire family of innocent bystanders who happened to pull into the intended murder site. He would have driven his bike up the road a bit and found a different spot. Killing 5 people is far more problematic than killing one. Had the target been the al-Hilli's, and a French bicyclist just showed on the scene, Perhaps.... It would require pretty quick thinking but it is possible.

If it was a Hit Man targeting the al-Hilli's, how did they know they would be at that particular spot at that particular time. (the forester reported the motorcyclist/killer arriving 15 to 20 minutes before the al-Hillis) If they were spending the day exploring the countryside, it is highly unlikely that they had any specific plans to be at that spot at any particular time, and equally unlikely they would tell anyone about it. (and certainly not his brother)I see no way anyone could have just "figured out" that they would be there around 4:00.

I think the most likely explanation is that al-Hilli had set up a meeting with someone, possibly SM or even the hit man. Someone knew about it.

Why bring his family? Possibly to use a holiday with the family as a cover whatever he was really up to. He had an appointment a the Swiss bank the next day. That seems like a lot of trouble to keep his brother from getting wind of it. (as I pointed out earlier, Zainab was pulled from school to make this trip)

From what I can tell, the brother was definitely trying to defraud Saad out of his inheritance. This could be a motive but would the brother have the contacts to find a hit man who could pull this off with such a degree of proficiency? We don't know that much about the brother.

If the family/money issue is ruled out, then we are left with a very strong possibility that this is international espionage; spook stuff.
al-Hilli was just a engineer who did contract work for communication satellite company with no security clearance and no access to classified material. (isn't that what they all say?) He did have in his possession, a lot of scientific information that was far beyond what he would need for his work. Was he up to some nefarious activity. He was known to rabidly hate Israel and had some contacts with Iran including a resent unexplained trip there. Could he have been trying to recruit SM to work in Iran? It isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

If this something to do with international espionage, anything is possible and we will probably never find out. Certainly a heart attack on loose end in America could be arranged.

 
From Blondie's link above. Mr. Thompson's daughter wants her father's remains tested for poisons. ‘Do they even know who was the intended target? It could have been Iqbal Al-Hilli.

‘Eliminating my father from the investigation and knowing he had a heart attack would be something we would like to know.’

Miss Martinolich said her father married Iqbal, a dentist, so that she could get a green card and live in the US. In exchange, she bought him a Honda car and fixed his teeth.


But she returned to the UK because she was homesick and her family did not want her to marry outside her culture.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-poisoned-daughter-asks.html#ixzz371MAPcv4
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
Very strange.

The most significant evidence seems to be the crime scene and the story it tells as to how the killing went down. Either from Zainab's (the 7 year old child) account or somehow based on forensics, it is believed SM was the first person shot. Apparently there was blood splatter from SM on the shoes of both Zainab and Saad Al-Hilli. SM was well off of the roadway when he was shot. He was "interacting with Saad. 'Saad was then able to jump in the vehicle pull forward, apparently running over SM and then backing up, most likely to align the vehicle so that he could pull out onto the road and escape. When PM arrived on the scene, the vehicle was backed into the dirt and the wheel was spinning. Most likely, Saad had lost consciousness while backing up.
<snip>



This is interesting. Do you have a link for this?
Thanks
 

Snoopster asked:

This is interesting. Do you have a link for this?
Thanks

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/20/french-alps-murder-mystery-s-forensic-breakthrough.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...was-not-main-target?google_editors_picks=true

There is quite a bit of documentation as to the French Police opinion that SM was shot first. All the details haven't been made public but forensic science has made great strides in blood splatter analysis. Basicly, blood splatter on stationary objects (including the ground)can reliably establish the position of the victim upon impact and blood splatter on non-stationary objects (including other people) can establish their position relative to the position of the victim upon impact if the position of the victim is known. They can pretty well figure out where everyone was as each bullet was fired. It took about 6 weeks for this information to com out and it created quite a stir. Initially it was assumed that this was just some crazy Local attacking tourists and SM only came upon the scene after the initial shooting and died because the shooter was still there.

SM's body was found well off of the roadway near the al-Hilli vehicle. In order for blood to splatter from SM to both Zainab and Saad, they had to be standing quite close together. It is pretty obvious that they were interacting in some manner.

In the search for some references I came upon some additional interesting information. Apparently Saad had a visitor in the campground the night before he died and got into some kind of a heated argument. This person has not come forward. Also, the language they spoke has not been disclosed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...n-in-heated-argument-before-Alps-murders.html
 
From Kemo's Link: According to the report, Mollier the cyclist was the first person to catch the assassin&#8217;s wrath.

... investigators now know with certainty that al-Hilli and his daughter Zainab were outside the family car when Mollier was shot. The cyclist&#8217;s blood was on al-Hilli&#8217;s pant leg and on the soles of his daughter&#8217;s feet, even though al-Hilli was shot through the window as he sat in the driver seat.

The first shots at Mollier didn&#8217;t kill him, based on his autopsy report and his trail of blood on the ground. Instead, investigators theorize that the assassin disabled the cyclist&#8212;perhaps intentionally keeping him alive&#8212;and then turned fire to the al-Hillis. According to the report, Saad al-Hilli then scrambled back into the family car, locked the doors and frantically threw the vehicle into reverse,.....

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...s-murder-mystery-s-forensic-breakthrough.html
 
Another possibility is that the RAF guy was the target. Perhaps al-Hilli waved over the French cyclist by mistake, and he was shot by mistake.
 
Wasn't there some business about al-Hilli's mother-in-law having some kind of extraneous passport (Swedish?) at the scene? That is a lot of passports.
 
The secret ex-husband of VICTIM Iqbal Al-Hilli, who was supposedly 'murdered' with a 'poison dart' in the US on the same day she was gunned down in France...is not true.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/murdered-al-hilli-mother-secret-ex-husband-3829895

He died of a heart attack. It's a coincidence and the story is a really, really, poor piece of journalism. In my opinion. They don't even seem to have checked their sources, or they'd have known it was incorrect.

It is all nonsense, in my opinion. Follow the money. There is your answer to this despicable crime. Media are getting themselves bogged down in the 'foreigness' of this shooting, just because it happened in France. The answer lies right at home in England, where the Al-Hilli family made their home. In my opinion.
 
The cyclist was former military - he tried to help. That's all. He was probably the most threatening to the gunman too, so got shot first.

The person who did this really, really needs to be locked up now. French investigations concentrate on crazy stuff like anyalzing handwriting, and they also take years. I don't have much hope of resolution while they're in charge of this investigation, to be honest. I think the killer's probably back in England.
 
"We have found out some surprising things about Iqbal, and we still don't have answers to some of the questions," said lead investigator Lieutenant-Colonel Benoit Vinnemann. Before marrying Hilli, Iqbal had never told her family about a US visit between February 1999 and December 2000 in which she married a dentist who was 13 years her senior. They divorced soon afterwards. Iqbal was herself a dentist. She met her second husband in Dubai a couple of years later.

The former husband, known only as James T, died on September 5 2012 in Natchez, Mississippi. The official cause of death was a heart attack."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/08/saad-al-hilli-wife-secret-husband-french-alps-murder
 
" Before marrying Hilli, Iqbal had never told her family about a US visit between February 1999 and December 2000 in which she married a dentist who was 13 years her senior. They divorced soon afterwards. Iqbal was herself a dentist.

(Snip)
From my link on post #250, She was the dentist...

Miss Martinolich said her father married Iqbal, a dentist, so that she could get a green card and live in the US. In exchange, she bought him a Honda car and fixed his teeth.


then:
zwiebel asks:


Only seems to be one Jim T who died in Natchez, MS, Sept 5th 2012.

https://www.meaningfulfunerals.net/f...48&fh_id=11269

..... Yes that's him, same daughter's name in the articles.


Swamp Fox Trot asks:


Wasn't there some business about al-Hilli's mother-in-law having some kind of extraneous passport (Swedish?) at the scene? That is a lot of passports.


...The weird thing is LE has never found the Hilli's British passports, were they used as proof of murder?

In a separate disclosure, Eric Maillaud, a prosecutor in charge of the case, said the murdered couple’s British passports had never been found.

“Investigators searched absolutely everywhere, on the bodies, in the family caravan, in the house in Claygate (in Britain),” he said. “Given the timing (of the killings), it’s not impossible that the killer took the two passports... but that would have been tight.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...n-in-heated-argument-before-Alps-murders.html
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
138
Guests online
3,119
Total visitors
3,257

Forum statistics

Threads
593,062
Messages
17,980,413
Members
229,004
Latest member
PCook77
Back
Top