GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

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From a common sense point of view, I don't see any justification for two men to kill one man who is jogging or even running away from a crime. If these two men thought that this guy had been in the neighborhood before and stolen before, why not just detain him or follow him and call 911?

Back in my running days, I used to run through lots of neighborhoods where I didn't live. That doesn't mean that I committed any crime. Unless it was a gated community, the roads belong to and are maintained by the city.

I got lost in a gated community one time and was quickly approached by a security guard in a security vehicle and told that I was trespassing on private property. I told the guard that I was lost. He directed me to the gate but didn't even offer a ride to me. I was on my own to get off their property!!
 
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Baciagalupo said:
My friend is married to an Afro-American and they live in an affluent part of Atlanta, I'm afraid something like this might someday happen to him.
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Statistically, your friend's black husband has far greater chance of being killed by young black males in Atlanta over a disrespect issue than he does being killed by white vigilantes.

I am not using these very accurate statistics to detract from the victim. Rather, I am simply stating that murders by racist white vigilantes are rare.

As a further illustration of emerging complexities, the deceased was once arrested for carrying a gun to a high school basketball game.

Though he might of had good intentions in carrying the weapon, he might of been involved in a respect / disrespect issue.
 
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work and life have been hectic so I have only today been able to catch up with the reporting on this case. Now that I have, I am appalled.

This young man appears to have been hunted and subsequently gunned down in broad daylight simply for jogging while black.

My heart is broken for his family. I doubt very much that I will follow this discussion as it will likely become heated in ways that left me scarred with another case I shall not name because that man's name will never cross my fingertips again if I can help it.

I mean, I get that COVID has played havoc with the court systems and their normal practices. I also have read that in GA capital offenses must be indicted by a grand jury. But why can they not convene a special one via zoom or some other video platform? We have seen hearings and trials around the country being done in this manner. You mean to tell me that this county can't figure out some way to get these men charged???

The fact that one of the perpetrators was in law enforcement for years and thought it was perfectly fine to do what he and his son did just blows me away. This is EXACTLY the type of thing that creates a mistrust of LE and gives other LEOs a bad name.

I'm out here at ----- Shores . . . There's a black man running down the street"

The SUGGESTION is being made that Ahmaud is the man a neighbor caught on security video from his open and under construction property poking around the construction site on previous occasions. Simple trespassing that was never reported, and is only now, after this young man's death a topic of concern.

but this case brings back awful memories of a another similar incident where a private citizen took it upon himself to "police" his neighborhood to tragic results for a young black man.

I have said my piece and now I am out. I don't have it in me to follow another case such as this one.
 
BeckyF said:
According to this the person who filmed was a friend of the McMichael's who helped them chase down and trap the victim. Video of Brunswick shooting made by one of victim's pursuers
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Thank you for the link, this was a good article. I'm stunned by the adjacent county's DA's (George Barnhill) conclusions that the victim "initiated the fight". To me, the video showed that the victim was first taking measures that a reasonable person would take to avoid the confrontation. When that was clearly no longer an option, and 3 white men in 2 vehicles had followed him and were boxing him in, one visibly armed with a shotgun, I don't consider his next actions unreasonable at all. I also would have fought as dirty as I had to in order to save myself from imminent harm if I was in his shoes at the moment in time.

This quote from that article is spot-on: "You can't argue self-defense if you instigated the event," [Longtime Brunswick attorney James] Yancey said. "This is the South. No black man being chased by two white men in a pick-up truck with guns is going to stay and talk to them. He had no legal obligation to do what they said. (Arbery) had every right to defend himself."
 
My take on what DA said in his letter to the police chief is that he alone has already tried and convicted the victim. It was all Ahmaud's fault, even though all of the facts are not known. He brings up the victim's mental health history? Why?

Why did these 2 men shout to the victim that they wanted to talk to him? Why did the son get out of the truck holding a shotgun? I can tell you that most people would have felt intimidated and in fear for their life if they were in the same situation. IMO these 3 men should have known how this would turn out. Who makes them judge, jury and executioners?

When was this video shown to anyone?
 
Cryptic said:
[

Statistically, your friend's black husband has far greater chance of being killed by young black males in Atlanta over a disrespect issue than he does being killed by white vigilantes.
Click to expand...

And these black males will get arrested for their crimes and not protected and walk free for two months!

As a further illustration of emerging complexities, the deceased was once arrested for carrying a gun to a high school basketball game.
Click to expand...

Who cares??? And I can only imagine what the shooters were able to get away with in their life being in a position of power for most of it!
 
Baciagalupo said:
And these black males will get arrested for their crimes and not protected and walk free for two months!
Click to expand...
No, they don't.

It is very important that these white men get prosecuted. Justice must be equal and cannot give one group very broadly defined rights of "self defense" over another group.

But that is a separate issue from the obvious fact that statistically, black males kill far more black victims than white racists do. Is this fact hard for you to accept?
Baciagalupo said:
Who cares???
Click to expand...
​
Maybe some of the coaches, players, students, teachers and students who were at the game?

The fact that he was turned in for carrying the weapon suggests that at least one person cared. There may have been others as well.
 
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Bodhi said:
Thank you for answering, Leve!

I am with you re the term 'Old South', Cubby. On the surface, separate but equal was outlawed and separate public facilities were eliminated. But the legacy of redlining followed by predatory lending practices that created the foreclosure crisis means segregated, largely white neighborhoods continue. We had made progress, no doubt, through integration and affirmative action. White supremacy never went away but it was under a rock at least. But the last 4 years they feel liberated as the president encourages it and harnesses it. The orders re the meatpacking plants and the reopen push is as cavalier a federal policy about black and brown lives as it can be. I fear for this country. We are in dangerous times, it will get worse as the election approaches. I hope American democracy survives.

I anticipate political statements here will be called inappropriate by some. But the murder of a young black man in daylight by 3 white supremacists IS political. The automatic acceptance of the pretense that it was justified by law enforcement and the justice system IS political. We cannot ignore the overarching systemic problems that led to this crime and attempted coverup by officials.
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Do we know these men were “white nationalists”?
 
CoolJ said:
Do we know these men were “white nationalists”?
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Yes. They organized and carried out an armed ambush of a black person for running through the neighborhood.

They called 911 before hunting him down to report 'there is black guy running through my neighborhood' and the dispatcher asked several times what the issue was. That was the issue. He was black.

The trespassing comment came later and is unsubstantiated. And would have been no excuse for killing a curious person anyway. It wasn't the McMichaels' or the friends' property.

So the 3 guys in trucks felt they were defending themselves, and therefore their actions were not criminal. Why doesn't the black guy they ambushed at gunpoint have the right to stand his ground and defend himself?
 
Bodhi said:
Yes. They organized and carried out an armed ambush of a black person for running through the neighborhood.

They called 911 before hunting him down to report 'there is black guy running through my neighborhood' and the dispatcher asked several times what the issue was. That was the issue. He was black.

The trespassing comment came later and is unsubstantiated. And would have been no excuse for killing a curious person anyway. It wasn't the McMichaels' or the friends' property.

So the 3 guys in trucks felt they were defending themselves, and therefore their actions were not criminal. Why doesn't the black guy they ambushed at gunpoint have the right to stand his ground and defend himself?
Click to expand...

He certainly does have that right. I am merely asking if there is confirmation that these men were actually white supremacists.
 
It seems to me that it was open season on Mr. Arbery. Now that this has hit national news, Mr. Arbery's full life and any action will be trotted before the citizenry to assassinate his character to justify why his killers should not be held to account as their chasing, hunting him, cutting off his escape and his challenging was reasonable. We saw this happen with Mr. Jean and his pot smoking.

Mr. Arbery was hunted plain and simple. These monsters had every opportunity to surveil and get uniform officer support. I have no doubt that if Mr. Arbery was armed and the same circumstances happened but with one of these killers dead that Mr. Arbery would not be given the doubt about defending himself from people pointing a gun at him. I am so sick and tired of this kind of justification of killing a person based on "perceived wrong-doing" that doesn't go the other way.

My condolences and my apologies to the family of Mr. Arbery for the injustice delivered to their loved one as well as the hubris and crazy justifications that will drag him through the mud while protecting those who confronted and killed him for running on their street.
 
Bodhi said:
The article linked above includes a link to the incident report.

What amazes me is that video was released by the McMichael's attorney because thought it would quell tensions.
Click to expand...

I don't think it was to quell tensions but rather to incite a division based on how some might look at the justifiable actions of his clients. If you look at this as a crime, they hunted him. If you look at this as protecting your neighborhood, all one's actions are justifiable based on a single burglary that might have been committed by this man of color.
 
There would be no way for this family to get justice. It seems that Mr. Arbery was guilty based on prior behavior and familial behavior in this prosecutor's eye. So much fairness and looking at the facts when one can paint a man with a broad brush based on an old event and the good old boys who work for the police and attorney's office can do no wrong. This is the prosecutor's words from this article:

“This family are not strangers to the local criminal justice system,” Barnhill wrote in his letter to Carr. “From best we can tell, Ahmauds older brother has gone to prison in the past and is currently in the Glynn jail, without bond, awaiting new felony prosecution. It also appears a cousin has been prosecuted by DA Johnson's office.”

EXCLUSIVE: Father of Brunswick shooter previously investigated victim
 
Bodhi said:
Thank you for answering, Leve!

I am with you re the term 'Old South', Cubby. On the surface, separate but equal was outlawed and separate public facilities were eliminated. But the legacy of redlining followed by predatory lending practices that created the foreclosure crisis means segregated, largely white neighborhoods continue. We had made progress, no doubt, through integration and affirmative action. White supremacy never went away but it was under a rock at least. But the last 4 years they feel liberated as the president encourages it and harnesses it. The orders re the meatpacking plants and the reopen push is as cavalier a federal policy about black and brown lives as it can be. I fear for this country. We are in dangerous times, it will get worse as the election approaches. I hope American democracy survives.

I anticipate political statements here will be called inappropriate by some. But the murder of a young black man in daylight by 3 white supremacists IS political. The automatic acceptance of the pretense that it was justified by law enforcement and the justice system IS political. We cannot ignore the overarching systemic problems that led to this crime and attempted coverup by officials.
Click to expand...
bbm
Interesting thread.
First of all...I am glad to see we can all have an open discussion that is political.
As long as we can agree to disagree if needed. :)

Wow.
First bolded : Strong words and I'm not saying I disagree completely ; but did you have a link for your statements re. the current president ?
I had to chuckle about the president's assertion that there are good people in Norway --- the country that gave us Anders Behring Breivik and Belle Gunness.
Might want to retract that statement.

Second bolded : And do we know for a certainty that the perps in this case are white supremacists ?
Not saying they're innocent-- they are not.

I remember back in the olden days some said Obama was pro-(any kind of ) terrorist ... but never backed it up with anything concrete.
So a person can say anything.
Just like the apparent lie about the money given to Iran in a policy of "appeasement".
Some say that never happened, and there's no proof... and that there was never any policy of 'appeasement' in the Obama admin.
So I was wrong re. any cash given to any other country during that era.

So what is the plain and unvarnished truth ?
My opinion is that many of the 'peasants' never get to know the truth but are manipulated by those in power.
I'm probably a 'conspiracy nut' when it comes to the government. :rolleyes:
 
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