GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #12

[bessie]

Backwoods, on July 4th, a member posted that the pass key was one of several rumors going around the neighborhood.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 25 June 2011


I always thought either LE found it in his apartment, or he voluntarily turned it over when he confessed about the condom thefts.

ETA: Giving more thought to this, it never made sense that he would've just out of the blue confessed to the condom thefts. It does make sense if LE had a tip and confronted him. I do think it's possible he bragged to someone because as you've pointed out, we've heard the stories of McD demonstrating how to pick a lock, and commit the perfect murder, and we've seen his internet posts in which he boasts of his cunnning. It's not a stretch to think he shared with someone that he had a pass key, probably long before he thought of murdering Lauren. Now who did he tell? I have no idea.

 

[tomkat]

In regards to trash pickup comments

One day after the murder, I was coming from home nearby and drove by, the trash pickup LOOKED to be backed into the complex on the right side, (if you are looking at the building) On McD's side. The men were off the truck, I presumed when I saw it, they were picking up the trash bins single handedly. In Georgia, there are still some old fashioned pickups, where the truck stops and men jump off the back and physically empty the cans into the truck back side. The way Barristers' hall is setup, they should be able to still get in the parking lot and drive up to the bin and let the truck's lift empty it overhead into the truck. In the same community you'll find various methods. I was always confused about the truck backed in but that was before I realized there were other units in the back, but Probably trash truck had driven down the back end and picked up there and was coming out that drive to exit the complex after picking up the last cans in the front. The cans probalby dont' move so they have to pick them up physically, becuase of location and parking lot.

Also, in the videos you can clearly see that the body is being retrieved frmo the left side of the building (when looking at it), in front, not down the side of the building. Those cans probably stay there at all times, in front of or beside teh curb to the grassy area or flower bed. There seems to be nowhere else to place them out of the way becuase of the parking lot.Since it's an apartment Complex, they wouldn't have to roll them to the street, which explains the trash truck coming up the right side of the building, explained above. Typically those bins would be moved to the street if it was a house.

Did anyone else hear as I did (very early on) that the trash man found the remains and contacted police? Very Soon after hearing that first report, it was reported the LE found the remains in the bin.

JM observations

 

[tomkat]

And according to pics and video from the scene, the bins were located on teh left side of the building FRONT, where they usually are during the week

 

[tomkat]

Whew, now that's a thought that never occurred to me...!??

You know, they used so much luminol in the three apartments that they had to borrow more -- but there was always discussion on here about whether that meant (1) they were finding lots of blood or (2) they were searching and searching for any blood. (I guess it could also be something in between those, as well.) What would be your take on that?
(Because, of course, we still don't know.)

I am always fascinated when you or sarx are here talking about the dogs, so I don't mind it when you get a little tunnel vision (though you really didn't).

I guess the frozen torso comment from Oriah explains it. I have commented here endlessly about HOW THE HECK MCD or anyone could dismember without a huge mess in the apartment!!! Ponchos, plastic or not, you can't clean that up easily without dropping some on the floor either.......can you!?

I took it that they used so much luminol becuase they weren't finding anything. If they'd found some, would they have stopped and moved to another apartment? How many apartments were luminoled? Just McD? I mean how much luminol for those small apartments does one need for one apartment, especially if they found blood in each room or one room, would they stop? Or keep looking for more and more in the same room?

On the other hand, whats the average lumonol usage typically to search with?

 

[Oriah]

I guess the frozen torso comment from Oriah explains it. I have commented here endlessly about HOW THE HECK MCD or anyone could dismember without a huge mess in the apartment!!! Ponchos, plastic or not, you can't clean that up easily without dropping some on the floor either.......can you!?

I took it that they used so much luminol becuase they weren't finding anything. If they'd found some, would they have stopped and moved to another apartment? How many apartments were luminoled? Just McD? I mean how much luminol for those small apartments does one need for one apartment, especially if they found blood in each room or one room, would they stop? Or keep looking for more and more in the same room?

On the other hand, whats the average lumonol usage typically to search with?

I would imagine they used luminol in all three apartments, as well as possibly common areas and possibly routes taken to the trash bin? And Lauren's vehicle? The use in certain locations may have been spurred by HRD dog alerts. That's what I've experienced in the past, anyway.

Also, if you 'overspray' luminol in any one place, it often distorts the results so I would think the reason for investigators to need more than the usual amount might be because they continued to chemically search more and more areas of interest?

I still can't figure how this crime could have taken place in one of the apartments without leaving quite a mess. As bessie pointed out, dismemberments are more common then one might think... but in a confined area with the substrates inherent in an apartment complex- it seems really unlikely to me that one could clean it effectively.

I have wondered if Lauren's remains were exsanguinated elsewhere. That or already in a frozen state is all I can come up with for reducing the impact of blood on a crime scene.

I might have missed this somewhere, but did investigators tear apart the drains? Take the tub(s), sinks, plumbing etc into evidence?

Poor Lauren. My heart breaks for her family and friends.

 

[MaconMom]

Oriah - very early on the police searched the storm drains. They also removed the traps and drains from both Lauren's and SMDs apartment. Here are pics: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649727/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

Something else I found just now that I had forgotten about when searching past articles for drains: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/06/1621693/evidence-search-in-giddings-case.html

This article mentions a security camera that had a view of the trash cans next to the apartment building. It didn't say if there was any video found related to the crime, but how awesome would that be if they can get video of SMD dumping a large package in the trash?

 

[Oriah]

Oriah - very early on the police searched the storm drains. They also removed the traps and drains from both Lauren's and SMDs apartment. Here are pics: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649727/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

Something else I found just now that I had forgotten about when searching past articles for drains: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/06/1621693/evidence-search-in-giddings-case.html

This article mentions a security camera that had a view of the trash cans next to the apartment building. It didn't say if there was any video found related to the crime, but how awesome would that be if they can get video of SMD dumping a large package in the trash?

Great catch, MaconMom. That seems like surveillance that would have been running too. I wonder if they got to it in time. I hope!

 

[tomkat]

I would imagine they used luminol in all three apartments, as well as possibly common areas and possibly routes taken to the trash bin? And Lauren's vehicle? The use in certain locations may have been spurred by HRD dog alerts. That's what I've experienced in the past, anyway.

Also, if you 'overspray' luminol in any one place, it often distorts the results so I would think the reason for investigators to need more than the usual amount might be because they continued to chemically search more and more areas of interest?

I still can't figure how this crime could have taken place in one of the apartments without leaving quite a mess. As bessie pointed out, dismemberments are more common then one might think... but in a confined area with the substrates inherent in an apartment complex- it seems really unlikely to me that one could clean it effectively.

I have wondered if Lauren's remains were exsanguinated elsewhere. That or already in a frozen state is all I can come up with for reducing the impact of blood on a crime scene.

I might have missed this somewhere, but did investigators tear apart the drains? Take the tub(s), sinks, plumbing etc into evidence?

Poor Lauren. My heart breaks for her family and friends.

Yes on the drains and tub, and I concur about the frozen state, that just makes sense. I don't know where else he'd have done it unless another vacant apt and so that may be the defense case, no dogs entered other vacant apts.

Also if searching 3 apartments and cars, that would explain the need for more luminol? Everyone just reading too much into that comment made about LE needing more luminol


I AGREE............I do NOT know how her mother and father Cope day to day, or her family !!!!!!

Also, how this case has effected others, ie: Halloween has always been a grotesque holiday in my opinion and after this case, I have absolutely NO interest in it!

Thanks for the insight

 

[Backwoods]

Yes on the drains and tub, and I concur about the frozen state, that just makes sense. I don't know where else he'd have done it unless another vacant apt and so that may be the defense case, no dogs entered other vacant apts.

Also if searching 3 apartments and cars, that would explain the need for more luminol? Everyone just reading too much into that comment made about LE needing more luminol


I AGREE............I do NOT know how her mother and father Cope day to day, or her family !!!!!!

Also, how this case has effected others, ie: Halloween has always been a grotesque holiday in my opinion and after this case, I have absolutely NO interest in it!

Thanks for the insight

about what I bolded and turned blue: I think you could well be right about that -- I just don't have any idea what would be a "standard" amount, or what MPD would normally have on hand...

For anyone interested, here is the link to an older Macon Telegraph story that mentions the use and borrowing of luminol:

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/09/1625474/police-hope-lab-results-from-74.html#storylink=misearch

Also, same article contains the info that "Detectives have also collected clothing and apparent blood evidence..." (bbm)

 

[Oriah]

I don't tend to be a fan of these 'crime scene' publications, but I thought this one was quite accurate and very explanatory:

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/blood.html

<In recent years, blood visualization enhancing chemicals have regained popularity with crime scene investigators. The chemical of choice is usually luminol. Luminol is a chemical that when applied to bloodstains, even very dilute bloodstains, will cause the bloodstains to glow in the dark. Because it has several drawbacks as a presumptive test for blood, spraying luminol at a crime scene should be an investigator's last resort for detecting blood. The problems with luminol include...>

Respectfully snipped from relative portion of publication, much more at link.

 

[tomkat]

I don't tend to be a fan of these 'crime scene' publications, but I thought this one was quite accurate and very explanatory:

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/blood.html

<In recent years, blood visualization enhancing chemicals have regained popularity with crime scene investigators. The chemical of choice is usually luminol. Luminol is a chemical that when applied to bloodstains, even very dilute bloodstains, will cause the bloodstains to glow in the dark. Because it has several drawbacks as a presumptive test for blood, spraying luminol at a crime scene should be an investigator's last resort for detecting blood. The problems with luminol include...>

Respectfully snipped from relative portion of publication, much more at link.

So they were desperate? Or there was just no visible signs of blood.

 

[tomkat]

So they were desperate? Or there was just no visible signs of blood.

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html

Nearby, (HER BED in back bedroom) a 3-inch oval swatch had been carved out, possibly for crime lab, fiber matching purposes. There was a similar carpet cutout in the middle of the next bedroom, which most residents in the complex use as a study.

So what fibers are they hoping to find in a small swatch of carpet by her bed? and another small one in spare bedroom, I dont understand out of that whole apt what they hope to find in just those few swatches.


Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html#ixzz1fWVd5FW8

 

[Backwoods]

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html

Nearby, (HER BED in back bedroom) a 3-inch oval swatch had been carved out, possibly for crime lab, fiber matching purposes. There was a similar carpet cutout in the middle of the next bedroom, which most residents in the complex use as a study.

So what fibers are they hoping to find in a small swatch of carpet by her bed? and another small one in spare bedroom, I dont understand out of that whole apt what they hope to find in just those few swatches.


Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html#ixzz1fWVd5FW8

I am glad you brought this up, tomkat -- I was wanting to ask Oriah about the carpet swatches. I'm wondering if they may be from the "main" (not the right term, but just trying to get the point across) hit areas from the HRD dogs...? Because, if I've understood correctly, if the dogs "narrow down" to one spot, DNA can sometimes be identified from there. Oriah, is this in the ballpark of being correct?

The really weird thing is that I was wanting to post that question to Oriah about the carpet swatches, and I KNOW there was a pic on the macon.com site of where one was taken from a bedroom in SM's apartment, too. (Remember, Patterson testified about dog hits in SM's back bedroom and bathroom.) But now that pic seems to be gone...? I'm almost certain it was among the pictures at this link:

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649727/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

... which is also the one MaconMom posted just a few posts back, when speaking about the drains. I'm pretty sure I saw the pic of SM's carpet (along with the pic of Lauren's) when I reviewed the pics again after MaconMom posted. But now -- I don't see it there?? Anybody else seeing it, or know where it is --or, even if not the pic, a print reference to a swatch being taken in SM's apartment?

 

[Oriah]

So they were desperate? Or there was just no visible signs of blood.

I don't think either, necessarily. I think they were covering all of their bases.

I can see there being no visible signs of blood, however. One of the articles mentions Laurens' friends entered her apartment and found no sign of her. I would think if the apartment were a mess or contained signs of a crime scene, it would have been noted numerous times.

 

[MaconMom]

The really weird thing is that I was wanting to post that question to Oriah about the carpet swatches, and I KNOW there was a pic on the macon.com site of where one was taken from a bedroom in SM's apartment, too. (Remember, Patterson testified about dog hits in SM's back bedroom and bathroom.) But now that pic seems to be gone...? I'm almost certain it was among the pictures at this link:

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649727/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

... which is also the one MaconMom posted just a few posts back, when speaking about the drains.

Try pic #3 at that link. Is that what youre looking for?

 

[Oriah]

I am glad you brought this up, tomkat -- I was wanting to ask Oriah about the carpet swatches. I'm wondering if they may be from the "main" (not the right term, but just trying to get the point across) hit areas from the HRD dogs...? Because, if I've understood correctly, if the dogs "narrow down" to one spot, DNA can sometimes be identified from there. Oriah, is this in the ballpark of being correct?

The really weird thing is that I was wanting to post that question to Oriah about the carpet swatches, and I KNOW there was a pic on the macon.com site of where one was taken from a bedroom in SM's apartment, too. (Remember, Patterson testified about dog hits in SM's back bedroom and bathroom.) But now that pic seems to be gone...? I'm almost certain it was among the pictures at this link:

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649727/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

... which is also the one MaconMom posted just a few posts back, when speaking about the drains. I'm pretty sure I saw the pic of SM's carpet (along with the pic of Lauren's) when I reviewed the pics again after MaconMom posted. But now -- I don't see it there?? Anybody else seeing it, or know where it is --or, even if not the pic, a print reference to a swatch being taken in SM's apartment?

It is very possible that a K9 alert was noted at those specific locations.
It's also possible that they took samples for fiber analysis to compare to fibers found elsewhere. Something as simple as a high traffic location vs a low traffic location can make a difference.
Or another investigative tool (such as the luminol) could have indicated something at those locations.

Were the apartments fully furnished at that time?

 

[Sandstorm]

I have read the "frozen torso theory" and the "torso pieces theory" posted recently and the "I dont see how he could carry a torso down the stairs" line of thought.

I appreciate the ideas and theories shared here on Lauren's WS threads.
However, I am sticking to the early theory of Lauren’s case:
this was a lust murder which Angel identified and proposed in the very first WS threads.

I don’t think he froze her torso or cut it up. He was using the torso for his purposes. He kept her as long as he possibly could which was one day too many. He did not want to part with HER.

Another thing, when we as good conscience law abiding people, attempt to conceive of HOW he committed this crime in her apartment, we simply cannot. It is impossible for us to understand how his mind thinks. We have a conscience and he does not. He cannot relate to love and caring. We do.

In my mind, there is no doubt that McD murdered Lauren in her apartment using exactly what he said he would to subdue his victim: chloroform.

Everything was on his side:
It was lock-down study time for the upcoming bar exam - good timing for law school graduates to drop off the social radar. Lauren was taken completely by surprise, secondly by force, and she was most likely drugged with chloroform then dragged to the bathtub. Once she was subdued, he could have easily carried out the rest of his evil deed right there in her bath tub. Not nearly as much clean up when you plan it well and have an totally unsuspecting victim who has always been kind and shown sympathy for you.

I do believe that night, Jun 25 - 26, did not go as smoothly has he had originally planned due to the fact that there was blood found in her apt plus he had scratches on his stomach when LE arrested him on July 1 for burglary charges.

We all are aware from his SoL posts and from Thaddeus Money's interview, he had A murder well planned. He had 4 days - time on his side - to clean up and transport her body parts.

It only takes a minute to haul a garbage bag down a set of stairs, even if it is heavy. Gravity is working with you. Besides, what are the odds that anyone would see him in the middle of the night? Low odds. I have driven in and out of Barristers Hall Apts. - it is shaded with trees and is a much smaller and secluded area than the photos portray. He could have easily moved her down those stairs in the midnight hours. No one was watching; no one was expecting a murder. The fact is, we have a difficult time imagining any of this. But he was set on committing the perfect murder. His adrenalin was pumping that night; he had determination and strength working for him in full steam.

We cannot conceive of this scenario in our minds, but it was no problem for McD. He had the job wrapped up and enjoyed the reality of it. He was so confident that while her torso was in the trash can next to his apt and LE was swarming the apt grounds, he was on TV being interviewed! Now that takes a lot of confidence – “I am waaaay smarter than the rest of you.”

McD planned this murder and had the sociopathic confidence to actually do it.
However, he miscalulated. He got caught. Evidence has been collected.
Personally, I rest assured that the Macon LE have what they need to prove it.

This post is merely my opinion.
I look forward to the day when the truth prevails and some justice is served for Lauren and her family.

Recommended reading from WS earliest Lauren threads:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/40094487/Psychology-of-Lust-Murder

 

[Backwoods]

Try pic #3 at that link. Is that what youre looking for?

Thanks, MaconMom, but no -- that one is labeled from Lauren's apartment. I am pretty sure that once there was mention and I think a pic, as well, of where a swatch was taken in SM's apartment, too.

 

[Wondergirl]

I have read the "frozen torso theory" and the "torso pieces theory" posted recently and the "I dont see how he could carry a torso down the stairs" line of thought.

I appreciate the ideas and theories shared here on Lauren's WS threads.
However, I am sticking to the early theory of Lauren’s case:
this was a lust murder which Angel identified and proposed in the very first WS threads.

I don’t think he froze her torso or cut it up. He was using the torso for his purposes. He kept her as long as he possibly could which was one day too many. He did not want to part with HER.

Another thing, when we as good conscience law abiding people, attempt to conceive of HOW he committed this crime in her apartment, we simply cannot. It is impossible for us to understand how his mind thinks. We have a conscience and he does not. He cannot relate to love and caring. We do.

In my mind, there is no doubt that McD murdered Lauren in her apartment using exactly what he said he would to subdue his victim: chloroform.

Everything was on his side:
It was lock-down study time for the upcoming bar exam - good timing for law school graduates to drop off the social radar. Lauren was taken completely by surprise, secondly by force, and she was most likely drugged with chloroform then dragged to the bathtub. Once she was subdued, he could have easily carried out the rest of his evil deed right there in her bath tub. Not nearly as much clean up when you plan it well and have an totally unsuspecting victim who has always been kind and shown sympathy for you.

I do believe that night, Jun 25 - 26, did not go as smoothly has he had originally planned due to the fact that there was blood found in her apt plus he had scratches on his stomach when LE arrested him on July 1 for burglary charges.

We all are aware from his SoL posts and from Thaddeus Money's interview, he had A murder well planned. He had 4 days - time on his side - to clean up and transport her body parts.

It only takes a minute to haul a garbage bag down a set of stairs, even if it is heavy. Gravity is working with you. Besides, what are the odds that anyone would see him in the middle of the night? Low odds. I have driven in and out of Barristers Hall Apts. - it is shaded with trees and is a much smaller and secluded area than the photos portray. He could have easily moved her down those stairs in the midnight hours. No one was watching; no one was expecting a murder. The fact is, we have a difficult time imagining any of this. But he was set on committing the perfect murder. His adrenalin was pumping that night; he had determination and strength working for him in full steam.

We cannot conceive of this scenario in our minds, but it was no problem for McD. He had the job wrapped up and enjoyed the reality of it. He was so confident that while her torso was in the trash can next to his apt and LE was swarming the apt grounds, he was on TV being interviewed! Now that takes a lot of confidence – “I am waaaay smarter than the rest of you.”

McD planned this murder and had the sociopathic confidence to actually do it.
However, he miscalulated. He got caught. Evidence has been collected.
Personally, I rest assured that the Macon LE have what they need to prove it.

This post is merely my opinion.
I look forward to the day when the truth prevails and some justice is served for Lauren and her family.

Recommended reading from WS earliest Lauren threads:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/40094487/Psychology-of-Lust-Murder

Great post, thank-you, Sandstorm.

 

[MaconMom]

Thanks, MaconMom, but no -- that one is labeled from Lauren's apartment. I am pretty sure that once there was mention and I think a pic, as well, of where a swatch was taken in SM's apartment, too.

I looked through those pics last week when I posted the link and I don't remember seeing a photo like that from SMD's apartment, but I wasn't specifically looking for it so I could be wrong.