GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #13

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Since unrelated articles on "psychopathic children" are posted here...

If the jury is majority female I predict that will benefit the defense. McDaniel has a very "feminized" face which infers lower testosterone/anger/aggression/violence on an instinctual level. Feminized male faces appeal to women in developed countries as they are less aggressive and more nurturing.

Can anyone argue that this isn't a feminized male face? It surely is! And that facial structure inspires a natural perception regarding the likelihood of violence.

<snipped image for space>

Just speaking for myself, the info about psychopathic children and the info you present here are both interesting. Related to the case? Well, I sure can't say for sure, but in both cases a pretty dedicated poster apparently thinks "possibly", so I don't mind going on a little side-spin now and then. :seeya:

I'm not sure how much stock to put in the feminized-face effect on female jurors. I'm sure it probably does factor in, but I also think jurors (and women!) are a little more complicated than that, so I'm thinking a lot of factors are working at once and that makes outcomes awfully hard to predict with certainty. I know there are "jury experts" who specialize in trying to do that, though.

This also brought to mind an earlier-in-the-case report that Lauren told apartment co-owner BB that SM was "weird but harmless" -- maybe the effect you reference working on her?

Which brings me back around to -- psychopaths.

Let me say at the outset, I've not seen anything to convince me that SM is a psychopath.

But maybe SM is a psychopath, as some here think, and he killed Lauren. He would have had the boost of whatever feminine facial features he may have working in his favor to deceive her, along with the standard surface innocuousness and ability to manipulate that many psychopaths are reputed to have and use so well to their own advantage.

It is also possible that SM is not a psychopath and yet did kill Lauren. People who are not psychopaths sometimes kill other people, of course, and, yes, try to conceal what they have done; it happens.

He could be also be a psychopath and yet still not be the person who killed Lauren.

Or he could be "weird but harmless" and have had no part in Lauren's death.
 
Which brings me back around to -- psychopaths.

Let me say at the outset, I've not seen anything to convince me that SM is a psychopath.

I believe the mismoner regarding psychopaths is that the only ones that are labeled as such are the ones that run around committing over the top violent crimes. I think there is a MUCH higher percentage of sociopaths in the world, however most obey the laws and stay out of trouble (because they don't want to suffer negative consequences just like everyone else) therefore they are never labeled as such.

The sociopathic mindset is an important tool for survival, as a species we are very warrior like, when wars are fought taking on the "psychopath" mindset is a necessity in the battle field. When facing the enemy the choice is "kill or die" and that requires turning off empathy. When someone threatens your loved ones or breaks into your house you turn off empathy if you want your own to survive.

Factor in the fact that MOST sociopaths do in fact bond and have feelings for some individuals in their lives. They can be loyal friends or devoted partners, however their feelings are in a BOX and whle they may have feelings for some individuals they can be completely DEVOID of feelings in other situations.

So could MCD be a sociopath? Quite possibly, there are a whole heck of a lot of them out there, but even if he IS that doesn't mean he committed this crime (though it surely ups the likelihood as whomever did this probably does have those traits).

&#8220;People think (psychopaths) are just callous and without fear, but there is definitely something more going on,&#8221; Newman says. &#8220;When emotions are their primary focus, we&#8217;ve seen that psychopathic individuals show a normal (emotional) response. But when focused on something else, they become insensitive to emotions entirely.&#8221;

http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/07/03/improving-the-definition-of-‘psychopath’/64.html

OT: Sonya, about the Woolfolk case: I spent a number of years obsessively researching that case...

Must have been very upsetting if you were writing a book and then another gets published. The book is good btw. One very interesting thing that LeRoach brings up is the pressure to have the family member convicted of the crime. She hints that at the time investment money from wealthy Notherners was crucial, and many Northern investors were very nervous about a rebellion of former slaves in the south. If the crime had been committed by the black man that confessed to it that could have caused panic and possibly stopped investment dollars, but if it was committed by a member of the family that would ward off the concern of major upheaval.
 
I can understand how LE, prosecution, defense, court officials, or whoever might find the interest of people on the "outside" somehow less noble than their own, and consider it only an annoyance or hindrance when it causes their own interests any problem.

I agree with your assessment 100%. Of course when the speculation and comments don't fit their agenda, when the evidence is being questioned, when testimony is being questioned and analyzed, etc... THEN it becomes very annoying and they see it as an unsavory "parlor game". One would THINK if they had the real goods they would welcome the "parlor game" debates as it would offer insight into how the jury may view the evidence. They could modify their approach based on feedback, but of course if they DON'T have real evidence then the questions and speculations just rub salt in an open wound.
 
Yeah it seems someone started pointing out unpleasant facts in that thread; placing the blame regarding "doxing" and such on parties other than websleuthers. Not all sleuthers are soccer moms.

:smile:
Nope. Not by a longshot! But I suppose we're all entitled to our delusions.
 
I think people "follow" cases that catch the public's especial interest for a number of reasons ... but I do believe that for many of those people, empathy for the victim and their family and friends plays at least some role. I guess that's why "parlor game" kind of rankles. To be fair, though, The Telegraph apparently was quoting some source on that description, not assigning it independently -- and I can understand how LE, prosecution, defense, court officials, or whoever might find the interest of people on the "outside" somehow less noble than their own, and consider it only an annoyance or hindrance when it causes their own interests any problem.
The term "parlor game" was coined by an un-named source, but the reporters clearly share the sentiment.

The Giddings case has, almost since it began last summer, at times prompted armchair sleuthing frenzies among online message board devotees -- some of whom have turned the Giddings case and its mysteries, as one source close to the case has privately put it, &#8220;into a parlor game.&#8221;
http://www.macon.com/2012/05/18/2030514/hearing-set-for-mcdaniels-bond.html#disqus_thread

I'd be a liar if I denied the element of entertainment involved in "sleuthing". Quite a few members are drawn to this site because of an interest in solving mysteries. These same members often share an interest in puzzle solving, in general. So, from that perspective, there is a hobbyist aspect to web-sleuthing. It's not true of all members all of the time, however, no more than the myth that all members are "soccer moms".

Speaking for myself, what I call "the two Laurens" -- Lauren Giddings and Lauren Spierer -- have become very important to me. Seeking a resolution in their cases has moved far beyond the realm of any "parlor game".
 
Since unrelated articles on "psychopathic children" are posted here...

If the jury is majority female I predict that will benefit the defense. McDaniel has a very "feminized" face which infers lower testosterone/anger/aggression/violence on an instinctual level. Feminized male faces appeal to women in developed countries as they are less aggressive and more nurturing.

Can anyone argue that this isn't a feminized male face? It surely is! And that facial structure inspires a natural perception regarding the likelihood of violence.
Agreed, which brings me back to one of my first posts in this case. I surmised that, in so many words, McD's appearance and demeanor might have enabled him to win LG's trust because she would have viewed him as harmeless. Iirc, it was before we knew he had keys, and we were speculating about how he gained entrance to her apartment. I thought if he knocked on her door to borrow a cup of sugar, she would have opened it, and perhaps even invited him to come inside, because her instincts did not warn of danger from McD.
 
The term "parlor game" was coined by an un-named source, but the reporters clearly share the sentiment.

http://www.macon.com/2012/05/18/2030514/hearing-set-for-mcdaniels-bond.html#disqus_thread

<
respectfully snipped for focus>



If they do, that's kind of funny -- since they are part of it! As I said in my post above:

As for newspapers and other media that report on crimes -- especially high-profile ones for which the coverage is continuing and extensive -- obviously that is serving the same "whodunnit" and "what's-gonna-happen-next" interests in their audience that I think are a big part of what keeps people interested in following cases through other avenues, such as crime forums.
 
Something I just found interesting:

I don't know how often headlines in the print edition of The Telegraph differ greatly from the online-version headline, but the "current" McDaniel story online is titled:

Hearing set for McDaniel's bond to be reconsidered


Yesterday at a store, I noticed that the top headline in the paper Telegraph read:

Lawyers: McDaniel didn't write 'barbecue' post


(or something extremely similar)

Quite a difference in slant, huh?

I assume it was the same story (didn't check in the store, and we no longer subscribe to the paper edition) ... and I see that the headline in the online edition has not been changed.
 
from macon.com



Telegraph takes home 11 Georgia Associated Press awards

... The entire photo department -- Chief Photographer Woody Marshall and photographers Jason Vorhees, Blankenship and Cabell -- won third place in the picture story category for their photographs of the aftermath of the slaying of Mercer University law school graduate Lauren Giddings. ...
read more at: http://www.macon.com/2012/05/19/2031580/telegraph-takes-home-11-georgia.html

Looks like the above-described was the only award the paper garnered for work specifically on coverage of Lauren's murder.

There has been some good photo coverage -- I know we have often referenced their photos here.


 
I have to say, that award was well-deserved. Kudos and thanks to Marhsall, et al.
 

I had something show up in a Google search yesterday that led me to a recent exchange over at the "other site", where SM posted. It's in their "news" section. Someone purporting to be the author of the AJC piece -- and of course I don't know for sure that's who it really was, but then again have no real reason to doubt that it was -- posted a link to the story and basically asked for, umm, feedback I guess. He did not receive a warm welcome and the exchange was short and not sweet.

Confused as to whether I should post a link or not on this ...? So I think maybe, for now, I'll not.

ETA: It should show up in a Google search for the AJC reporter's name and the site name, with results narrowed to within the last week. Warning -- there is an unpleasant/disturbing graphic in (as best I can determine) the original post.
 
Someone purporting to be the author of the AJC piece -- and of course I don't know for sure that's who it really was, but then again have no real reason to doubt that it was -- posted a link to the story and basically asked for, umm, feedback I guess. He did not receive a warm welcome and the exchange was short and not sweet.

That had to be a troll post. Ain't no way an author for the AJC is going to post such a ridiculous photoshopped image.
 

Hearing set for McDaniel's bond to be reconsidered


Yesterday at a store, I noticed that the top headline in the paper Telegraph read:

Lawyers: McDaniel didn't write 'barbecue' post

There may have been a good reason for that, notice NO ONE on macon.com was surprised or really discussed the fake internet post much because it had already been discussed for weeks in the comment section.

It wasn't breaking news online, but the readers of the print edition may not have heard about it. In fact the posters would have likely mocked the writers for pretending it was "breaking news" in the online edition when they had intentionally not covered the story for weeks.
 
Bessie, yep, it appears old Joe and Amy Leigh are pulling the old journalistic trick, attribute a quote to someone else, but it does reveal their position. I believe this is what we have here, why else would they print it? Okay, I can handle that. But what is frustrating about their coverage is that I feel 100% sure that either 1) they are sitting on some bombshell stuff that they are afraid to print, or either 2) they have not dug as deeply as this little cub reporter has into some of what is going on with this case. Maybe they were embarrassed about getting scooped by ATL on the web post, but seems to me that verifying the veracity of the Barbecue V-Card post should have been way up there on their priority list after the bond hearing . They read the same OPCHAN Sol posts we did , and had an article about it after we discussed it, if they saw the BBQ V-Card post in their original scrubbing of the OPCHAN site , they didn't say so either and it WAS NOT included in their original article.
 
That had to be a troll post. Ain't no way an author for the AJC is going to post such a ridiculous photoshopped image.

bbm: You would think not, anyhow ... but I thought perhaps he (if it was truly the reporter) was fishing for further info -- trying, however awkwardly, to "fit in" so he could get the goods...sure got nipped in the bud, though.

Well, maybe he did get one little enticing nugget, though I can't think how he's likely to be able to verify it. I am sure that with communications going on with the lawyers and such, they will be tight-lipped on the matter over there -- and I don't blame them.

I couldn't say for sure that the image went with the original post, just not familiar enough with how things work over there, but it looked to me like it did.
 
There may have been a good reason for that, notice NO ONE on macon.com was surprised or really discussed the fake internet post much because it had already been discussed for weeks in the comment section.

It wasn't breaking news online, but the readers of the print edition may not have heard about it. In fact the posters would have likely mocked the writers for pretending it was "breaking news" in the online edition when they had intentionally not covered the story for weeks.

That hadn't occurred to me, bet you are right!

I know there could be a need for slightly different headlines in the two versions because of layout needs, but I just couldn't recall noticing before a disparity such that one was not even in the same ballpark with the other.

FWIW, the lead on the story seemed to fit the print headline better, I thought, but the overall story worked well under the online head (but that head made the lead seem wacko).
 
I stopped by Lauren's thread tonight, and I am not up to date on everything going on in her case. I see some discussion regarding the SoL posts etc. I will have to read up on that.

When I see the horrible pictures of the black dusting all over her kitchen, and apartment, and I recall the absolutely gruesome details of her death, once again, my thoughts go to her loved ones and many friends.

I am so sorry that happened to Lauren. Nobody should ever have lasting memories of someone like that. I truly wish for justice to persevere in Lauren's case. My God, that's what she believed in. :(

Her death likely brought a monster off the streets. At least he can't hurt anyone else.



*
 
Bessie, yep, it appears old Joe and Amy Leigh are pulling the old journalistic trick, attribute a quote to someone else, but it does reveal their position. I believe this is what we have here, why else would they print it? Okay, I can handle that. But what is frustrating about their coverage is that I feel 100% sure that either 1) they are sitting on some bombshell stuff that they are afraid to print, or either 2) they have not dug as deeply as this little cub reporter has into some of what is going on with this case. Maybe they were embarrassed about getting scooped by ATL on the web post, but seems to me that verifying the veracity of the Barbecue V-Card post should have been way up there on their priority list after the bond hearing . They read the same OPCHAN Sol posts we did , and had an article about it after we discussed it, if they saw the BBQ V-Card post in their original scrubbing of the OPCHAN site , they didn't say so either and it WAS NOT included in their original article.

Kinda partly just jumping off your post here, AgentFrank, but did first want to respond specifically to the part of your post I bolded:

As frustrated as I've been with The Telegraph's lagging on the bond hearing post thing, I DO understand that, at the hearing and just after, they were probably pretty much in the same position some of us here were, saying, sheesh, never saw THAT one! But they probably figured, "there's gotta be some explanation -- otherwise, the DA would never be getting up there and reading this thing to the judge," once again, as a lot of us were thinking.

So they probably turned over all the possible explanations we raised here -- somehow we just missed that one, LE got to that one before we did, etc. For a while, their hands were kind of tied -- how to question the authenticity of the post when all they really had was that it wasn't familiar to them as one of SM's?

OK, quick enough, other folks -- WSers, macon.com commenters, folks at the site where SM posted -- started talking, scratching their heads, wondering, and putting together some pretty clarifying information. Telegraph maybe could have gotten creative at that point and jumped on that somehow, but still, I see that they still had a legitimate dilemma -- how to do without looking like a gossip rag.

Where I really lost patience with them was when the defense attorneys started commenting -- that's where, I think, they should have stepped in and gotten comments from the same attorneys and the district attorney, and carefully worked in whatever "sleuthing" they had been doing in the meantime. But instead, they ignored it, for all we could see, and, some say, even outright stated they had no plans to cover the issue. Truth is, I bet they have maybe been busy as bees with this thing, actually, in their heads -- but they missed the starting gun on this one.

Now on to a few related matters that have been nagging at my own thoughts:

Where I'm coming from, of course, is that the post was NOT written by SM. I'm convinced. I understand some others of you may not be, and I respect that. Whatever view you hold, though, maybe some of this will be relevant.

I've mostly gone with the view that quoting that post must have been a trickily-worded courtroom maneuver that would fly, but just barely, at a bond hearing.

In this view, I've thought maybe DA did for public/media impact, handy "summary" of one theory of the case, etc., with no plans to ever reference that post (and maybe any of SM's posts) again. I've thought maybe getting "caught" at it so quickly was not expected. I've wondered whether, if the post was never referenced again (say, at a trial), would there even be any recourse for the defense to challenge it. I still wonder about that, actually. Telegraph article at

http://www.macon.com/2012/05/18/2030514/hearing-set-for-mcdaniels-bond.html#disqus_thread

makes it sound somewhat as though something like that might happen at the next hearing, but if you read closely, it sounds kind of like they're just guessing, or even shakier, just using that "possibility" to tie in their belated nod to the post dispute to what news they did actually have to report, the upcoming bond reconsideration hearing.

Here's another media report from Monday, and it doesn't sound like Hogue is making any promises about the post playing a part on June 19:

Hearing Set For McDaniel's Bond Reconsideration

... McDaniel's attorney, Franklin Hogue stated, "We will argue for a lower dollar amount, show the judge evidence of no danger to McDaniel's siblings, and offer the 'plan' for supervision while McDaniel is out on bond..." ...
more at: http://www.41nbc.com/news/local-news/12502-hearing-set-for-mcdaniels-bond-reconsideration

Maybe it will be challenged then, just don't know, I'm not a lawyer.

Sometimes though -- I turn my thinking to whether this possibly could have been an actual mistake? Could it be that the prosecution really thought that was a real SM post when it wasn't? The Telegraph article states:

Experts are examining the Internet posting that prosecutors allege McDaniel authored under the screen name &#8220;SoL,&#8221; short for &#8220;Son of Liberty,&#8221; a source familiar with investigation said Friday.
http://www.macon.com/2012/05/18/2030514/hearing-set-for-mcdaniels-bond.html#disqus_thread

The word "investigation" sure would seem to imply that their info is coming from someone at least loosely connected with the prosecution side. So, are they backtracking now? What kind of "experts" are "examining" the post? I sure hope they are examining something besides the post -- in other words, that they are doing all those sophisticated computer and internet forensics that I understand next to nothing about -- because I don't think examining the post alone is going to get them very far.

One thing that has crossed my mind several times during all this -- I never mentioned it before because it just seems TOO simple -- but just throwing it out there: Back when we were reading the SoL posts, that dating system they use over at the other site tripped me up time and time again. I'm just not cosmopolitan enough to deal with much other than month/day/year, it seems. And that's not what that site uses. Could THAT have caused confusion enough to someone at some point to bring all this about? Could whoever was combing the posts have found that one, posted by another "SoL" after SM was in jail (because that is what I believe is the case) but somehow cataloged it under the wrong date?

Seeing that Wondergirl stopped in earlier gave me a thought: I wonder if any of the posters who were regulars on this thread at the time the SoL posts were being sleuthed but later slipped away might just by chance have kept reading at "the other site" (as I know some of us did) and screenshotted or otherwise documented that post made by someone else (again, going on what I am assuming has happened, your opinion may vary, I realize!). I just feel that a good many of us probably READ it, saw it for what it was, and saw no reason to save it. Boy -- hindsight!!


 
Ok, here's part 2 of my uber-long post -- I will try to be briefer in this round, though. This thread is starting to look like my blog ... that's not good. :(

On with the possibility that the prosecution might actually have thought the post was authentic SM:

Something that troubles me is, in that case, the post might have been presented to the grand jury. I would think that would be a very serious matter -- as it should be -- if it is proven not authentic. I wish some of our attorneys would weigh in on what might happen, were that to be the case (the post presented to the grand jury as SM's when it is not).

I've thought back, too, to when AgentFrank reported to us a few months back about getting word that the prosecution knew "exactly how he was able to subdue Lauren." We talked about drugs and chloroform and toxicology tests -- all still possibilities. What we did not talk about was an internet post referencing a Mickey Finn. Another thing that makes me wonder -- were they really banking on this post?

For those of you who feel already convinced that SM is the person who killed Lauren: I think the bright spot for the prosecution among what could be some big snarls from all this post stuff is that SM was charged with the murder before the posts probably came to LE's attention. I was not sure about that -- I knew he was charged in August and the posts came to our attention in August -- so I checked, and he was charged (early August) well before we found the posts. (Of course, the possibility still exists, too, that LE knew about the posts even long before we did -- I just personally believe not.)

If they had truly good, solid evidence to charge him to begin with, it should still hold, eventually, IMO, even with the post brouhaha, as problem-making and embarrassing as that is likely to be. (And this is another thing that has me wondering now if they were convinced the post was authentic -- because, otherwise, wouldn't the risk of using a known-to-be-bogus post, even if "barely OK" at a bond hearing, just outweigh any possible benefit?? And yes, it does also make me question more whether they do have other good, solid evidence... but my point for you in these last two paragraphs is, if they do, it will be still there for them.)
 
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