GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 4

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't know Smooth, I don't think the canned food being neatly arranged in the cupboard is very telling honestly. The owner of our company has similar OCD issues about some pretty weird things too, but he's not a killer. The hair, also not a big deal to me. Maybe it was in his brush/comb and he pulled it out. Meant to hit the commode to flush it and missed.

What was the point of that news story really? I guess I'm just tired tonight, but I am starting to get irritated with BB. Time to zip it before I break TOS.

None of that of course is aimed at you Smooth.
 
Lastly as is in the snipped quote ^above^ they state that there is a clump of what was obviously McD's hair beside the toilet.. Anyone care to speculate on what that's about?? Given his particular hair style it's not as tho he's cutting his hair.. So what would explain a clump Of his hair next to the toilet??

<snipped for focus>

Probably came out of all those drains and pipes they were removing.
 
This statement made by apt mgr as well as the plumber about severe organization to the point of having in his kitchen cabinet's canned goods were arranged and displayed with all labels facing forward.. Their being organized in a just so fashion..

It takes my mind back to the 2 felony burglary charges against McD for the two separate *occasions of burglary if his neighbors in stealing one single condom from each residence.. And many of us questioning throughout what could possibly have drawn LE to their existence being suspect rather than them just being seen as 2 random condoms in his apt??

This obsessive type organization and OCD like behaviors do lend more credence to what some of us have theorized that the condoms possibly were "displayed" or " labeled" in a way that would first bring attention to LE and second to have been seen in any way suspect that would lead to LE then questioning McD about them..*

Just something that came to mind in reading the article..

Also extremely organized in an almost obsessive fashion but yet the owner want to point out that in a completely odd and totally opposite type of behavior the apt was not kept "clean".. Of course IMO that's typical college guys bachelor pad .. Unclean and and a mess.. But it is strange in this case given the obsessive organization.. The two are like oil and water IMO and they just don't mix..

Lastly as is in the snipped quote ^above^ they state that there is a clump of what was obviously McD's hair beside the toilet.. Anyone care to speculate on what that's about?? Given his particular hair style it's not as tho he's cutting his hair.. So what would explain a clump Of his hair next to the toilet??

Thanks guys for posting the link to this latest article;)


The clump of hair could have been from cleaning a hairbrush and missing the trash can or the toilet as some people do flush it.

I turn all my canned goods so I can read the labels and things are arranged by size. Helps when I write my grocery list. I also have all my clothes hangers going the same direction and blouse and jackets facing the same direction. Dresses and pants too. Clothes are sorted by type, color, and season. My drawers are the same way. Everything is folded the same and stacks are by size and in rows. My mother made us keep our drawers and closet as clean as the rest of the house. My house is clean but not spotless. Am I OCD? I would never miss the trash can!

My neighbor's house is spotless but her drawers and closet are a mess! Can we both be half OCD?

I'm not trying to be smart...I'm really asking.....
 
Thank God for the integrity of this case!!! Because it'd be one helluva scary day for our justice system if we were privy to all the evidence of a case before someone is even charged, much less brought to trial on those charges..

We are and will not be privy to the evidence that is needed in order to make such a serious judgement of guilty or not guilty before a court.. If we were then our justice system would fail each and every time.. There is a very good reason We are not privy to the evidence needed to truly make a judgement against an individual.. It is necessary..

We will not any time in the near future months and possibly even years(CA case took 3 yrs to take it to trial)be privy to the type of evidence that ppl are stating that they need before they can see he's the responsible party.. It's one thing to recognize that an individual is most likely responsible totally different to be on an actual jury and vote him guilty with a possie death sentence.. No one is making that claim here that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.. That time and the evidence needed to mAke that decision is very far off in the future..

We will not be privy to the evidence until that time.. NOR SHOULD WE BE PRIVY TO IT!!

Common sense, logical conclusions.. That is what is being drawn here.. No one is finding any individual guilty before a court of law.. Huge difference!! Huge, huge difference!!!

Some good thoughts here. Pretty much in accord with I said earlier when responding to the post where someone stated that I had "just qualified for the jury" in response to my posting that at this point I could see certain points going either way: We are suitable for study as something like a mock jury, not a real one.

As for the evidence question, I do think we have hope of knowing, within the next week, not detailed evidence of the type I'd need to get off the fence, but whether that type of evidence even exists.
 
I agree backwoods I bet the hair was at the top of the drain in the bathtub just from over the course of time with his long/thick hair it had gotten to be a clump of hair..I Feel that's most likely the source.. Thanks for pointing that out..

Knox I agree his OCD doesnt make him a murderer just seemed to be a possibility that such OCD behaviors couod have also led to him having labeled or displayed the 2 condoms thus bringing LE attention to them..

Believe me I've had toothpicks holding open my eyelids and me saying I'm just gonna read one more page of posts..lol..

Go catch some zzzzz's
sleep_1.gif
that's where I'm certainly going to force myself to do here very shortly..lol
 
snipped
SMOOTHOPERATOR post 360
That visceral reaction that is seen and heard would make sense given the intention was that the torso would have been long gone and hauled away with the apt complex trash that was to be picked up!!! No torso, no body, No Lauren, No murder!!!! And Lauren just is another name on another Missing Persons flyer for God knows how Many years!!!
That discovery of that torso was at minimum at 2 punch to the gut that left him breathless and rendered him speechless for moments to come.. It was the realization of this happy go lucky plan that thus far was playing out smoothly just got yanked out from under his feet before he even knew what hit him..

IMO looking back on this reaction with what most of us believe to be that the absolute intention was for that torso to have been hauled off to the dump and not discovered right there 50 feet from his and Laurens front doors.. It makes the reaction just that much more understandable IMO...

***************************************

Sandstorm said:
smoothoperator, you nailed it.

He was definitely shocked to hear that a BODY had been found.

All that McD replied was "body?"
and then, "I think I need to sit down."

My thoughts are:
If he were innocent wouldn't he have asked questions based along this line:

Where did they find a body?
Who found it?
Are they sure it is Lauren?
What happened to her?
Are they sure she is dead?
Who could have done this?
Do they know who killed her?


Those are the thoughts that come to my mind if I were told that my neighbor's body was found in the parking lot.
In the video McD makes no inquiry.
Maybe he did off camera and it was not recorded. (??)

I think he was in complete shock at the repercussions of the body being found.
Now, everything had changed.


Another thing that catches my attention is when the reporter asks
"Did she have any enemies, do you know of anyone who would want to hurt her?"
McD avoids that question and redirects the conversation: "We don't know where she is..." then he proceeds to comment with reference to her running and that maybe someone snatched her.

Another point from the video:
In part 1 and part 2 of the video McD explicitly states that

"No one has seen her since Saturday".

This interview was 5 days later. He was studying for the bar. How did he know that NO ONE had seen Lauren since Saturday?

He also makes a comment about her car that is odd to me:
When asked by the reporter Michelle Quesada if that was Lauren's car. He states that "No that car was Detective Patterson's... Lauren's car had been there for days."
Why would he think that her car had been there for days? How would he know that she had not driven her car when he was not aware?

***************************
These are very tell tale signs for me.
What do you think about these points?
Your ideas are appreciated.

You are assuming this SMD thinks like you, reacts like you, talks like you, replies like you think YOU would.

I'll just say this. If SMD has Asperger's, he would NOT react or respond in the manner you would or you think you would. It doesn't mean he's lying, it simply means that not everyone reacts and replies with the same thought process as the next person. Innocent people have said crazy things and reacted in odd ways in tons of cases, but the key word is innocent. The public, in general, judges another person by the way the public thinks they should act or reply. It's not always gonna be the way you think or would like it to be, and when it's not, it does NOT constitute a person of being guilty. Evidence and hard facts prove or disprove these things in a court of law. Here's an example:

The public listened to the slanted version of stories that Nancy Grace twisted up for entertainment purposes for her viewers so they would gasp and keep tuning in, so they got all hyped up and wanted some of Casey Anthony's blood in return. BUT, in the trial, as well as official legal documents, many of the things Grace said were not even brought up or brought out. The jury heard the evidence, which was basically NOTHING, they had to follow the law and the rules given to them, reviewing the questions on their paper one by one, answering each question based on the evidence. What they learned was that since the trial showed NO evidence of the way the child died, they didn't know. They learned that the trial revealed NO proof that Casey was involved in the death of her child, and it actually could have been someone else, therefore, they could not answer those jury questions. If they can't answer all questions under each charge, they can't vote to convict her of any of them. The questions have to be answered on their papers and supported by the evidence presented to them in the trial, or they can't convict. That's what happened, BUT the public went crazy because most were all fired up by the talking TV heads and they were not even on the same page as the jury.

As far as SMD goes, the same thing could happen if the talking tv heads got their hands on this. Nancy would say you must be an idiot to not think this guy did it because he allegedly had this master key that police found in his apartment, so bam! She's judged him and encouraged her viewers to do the same. She would hang him on that one tidbit, but I would say to HER that if the master key opens all doors in that complex, it could certainly open SMD's door just the same way it could have opened LG's and could be planted there intentionally. Until we know what evidence police have to firm up a suspect and charge him OR HER with the crime, we have to assume he's innocent of everything and wait for the EVIDENCE to tell the tale, not a sensationalist on TV or anywhere else.

And when SMD made the statement about LG's car being there for days, the logic behind that statement is so simple. He was taken with other friends of LG's to be questioned for hours before he even showed back up there where the cameras were. If investigators asked him if he had noticed her car there for days, he could infer that it WAS there for days. Did anyone think that investigators may have said something like this to SMD- "The landlord said the car was parked there for 3 days (or 2 or whatever) from her best recollection of seeing it, so how many days do you recall seeing it sit there? "-

Simple. They could have clearly said it to him and he repeated it. He WAS at the police department with other of LG's friends for hours BEFORE that interview. It was NOT the other way around.

If you're interested, there is a song on youtube by James Scott. He sings a song called Through My Eyes about having Asperger's.
James Scott HAS ASPERGER'S.

(here are a few lines from the song)

I'm not blind but I can't always see.
I'm not deaf, but things just sound strange to me.
I'm not trapped but it's hard to be free.
Imagine what it's like to be me.

It's hard for me to try to think things through
or talk like you

Everything can be a blur sometimes,
if you walk along beside me,
hold my hand to guide me
Together any mountain we can climb..

Dreamin of my future
and it's brighter than you know....

The point is, if you don't understand Asperger's, which I believe is entirely possible with SMD, then you can't even BEGIN to know how he would react or reply. If his responses don't match what you think YOURS would be, that does NOT mean he's guilty of anything.

Also, Asperger's does not equal STUPID. (Yes, normal for most to attend college, yep, even law school. Albert Einstein is thought to have been on the autism spectrum, as well.) People with Asperger's are extremely brilliant & most have GREAT language skills & are very social, however, social situations may be awkward, such as starting a conversation with a topic that seems to fit the moment, and eye contact may be minimal or the eyes dart about when speaking.

I will repeat that I feel this is entirely possible with SMD and think it should be considered.
 
Sorry if my statements in the post about OCD seemed to indicate in any way that OCD behavior was indicative of him being guilty of murder.. That wasnt at all my intention.. It was only in that seeing his did exhibit some OCD behaviors led my mind back to thinking on the possibility that the condoms were labeled or displayed in a certain manner..

For that reason only is why I mentioned the OCD behavior..
 
I have a comment regarding the "little handgun" that SM says he could have lent Lauren.

If SM actually is an avid collector of knives, and does actually have a collection in his apartment, why wouldn't he have offered to lend her one of THOSE, kwim?

Kind of funny that he suggests a handgun, if in fact he has a large collection of knives. JMO

Guys tend to think [perhaps correctly] that women don't stand a chance using a knife against a male attacker.
 
The Asberger's has been discussed and detailed about what it's all about and that's anyone's prerogative if they'd like to believe or consider that he has it or may have it..

Just like it's those of ours prerogative to know what Asberger's is and feel it's completely irrelevant.. We are not sensationalized talking heads but rather a group of people who are allowed to discuss the aspects of this case as it unfolds.. And in those discussions also theorizing takes place..

No one here is coming up with ridiculous or wild theories but rather use of common sense and logical conclusions are being drawn..

To each their own.. But there are no outlandish assumptions being made either but rather again using common sense and drawing logical conclusions about the only named POI in this case..
That will continue until if or when information is found to point in another direction..
 
Sorry if my statements in the post about OCD seemed to indicate in any way that OCD behavior was indicative of him being guilty of murder.. That wasnt at all my intention.. It was only in that seeing his did exhibit some OCD behaviors led my mind back to thinking on the possibility that the condoms were labeled or displayed in a certain manner..

For that reason only is why I mentioned the OCD behavior..


HI Smooth. I didn't take it that way at all and I don't think anyone else did. When I asked about me I was serious. I wasn't kidding about my neighbor either. Everything that is visible is in perfect order but things fall out of the closets. lol I just wondered if a person can be OCD in some ways but not others.
 
HI Smooth. I didn't take it that way at all and I don't think anyone else did. When I asked about me I was serious. I wasn't kidding about my neighbor either. Everything that is visible is in perfect order but things fall out of the closets. lol I just wondered if a person can be OCD in some ways but not others.

Yes.
Some people are obsessive compulsive about other kinds of ritualistic behaviors, like touching objects the "right" way lest they have a panic attack about their cat they just let out the door because unless they touch the doorknob the ''right'' way the cat is going to get hit by a car or bitten by snake...ok I speak from personal experience. But seriously, there are lots of facets to OCD, the cleaning obsession is only one of them. Many hoarders [although some are now considering hoarding to be a disorder of its own] are very obsessive about the ritual of never letting go of anything, and will organize and display certain things elaborately while living in filth.
I was diagnosed with OCD because of my other compulsive-ritualistic behaviors, I'm not a neat freak, lol [wish I was].
 
The Asberger's has been discussed and detailed about what it's all about and that's anyone's prerogative if they'd like to believe or consider that he has it or may have it..

Just like it's those of ours prerogative to know what Asberger's is and feel it's completely irrelevant.. We are not sensationalized talking heads but rather a group of people who are allowed to discuss the aspects of this case as it unfolds.. And in those discussions also theorizing takes place..

No one here is coming up with ridiculous or wild theories but rather use of common sense and logical conclusions are being drawn..

To each their own.. But there are no outlandish assumptions being made either but rather again using common sense and drawing logical conclusions about the only named POI in this case..
That will continue until if or when information is found to point in another direction..


It's Asperger's,

I know for some people, it is easier to disregard something as irrelevant if you don't really know about it, or care to learn enough to weight it as a possible explanation for behaviors that are being described as odd. It's just sad to me, although I respect our difference in viewpoints.

If you try to drive a car with 3 wheels, you're gonna be missing something and really won't get anywhere successfully. It's so much better when someone gives you the 4th tire and you're no longer stuck on 3 wheels, but that's completely up to you whether or not to accept the tire that makes the car roll. I would be pretty upset if my spouse deemed the 4th tire irrelevant and made me sit there for days trying to get those 3 wheels to take us somewhere.
 
Yes.
Some people are obsessive compulsive about other kinds of ritualistic behaviors, like touching objects the "right" way lest they have a panic attack about their cat they just let out the door because unless they touch the doorknob the ''right'' way the cat is going to get hit by a car or bitten by snake...ok I speak from personal experience. But seriously, there are lots of facets to OCD, the cleaning obsession is only one of them. Many hoarders [although some are now considering hoarding to be a disorder of its own] are very obsessive about the ritual of never letting go of anything, and will organize and display certain things elaborately while living in filth.
I was diagnosed with OCD because of my other compulsive-ritualistic behaviors, I'm not a neat freak, lol [wish I was].

You took my answer away that I was just about to type! I am very similar.

I can completely see how McD could have his cabinets arranged just so and yet not be considered neat by other standards. OCD is all about what you need to control and what you need to adjust so that you can feel "okay." For example, my bookshelves have to be very neat and organized, in a way that I prefer, yet my closet is not. (that's just a general example - no need for personal details).

OCD can also vary as to how you are feeling or your stress level at that time. For instance, the ritualistic tendencies of OCD can get worse depending on how you feel.

I know we have little details into what kind of person McD is, so these little glimpses allow us to kind of formulate and speculate an opinion because right now, we have so many questions and so few answers.

However, I do wish Boni Bush would quit doing interviews. I know it's hard to have her business interrupted, but a precious life was lost here. It all just comes out seeming so....artificial. Kind of, whoa is me, people cancelled their leases, I need reimbursement..but let me tell you what I know personally every week in a news interview. Granted, I'm sure that is not her intention, but it is coming off that way. Like I've said before, I live in Macon and went to Mercer (undergrad) and so I've heard alot of public opinion. While most of it varies, the consensus on her is, "please stop talking!"
 
HI Smooth. I didn't take it that way at all and I don't think anyone else did. When I asked about me I was serious. I wasn't kidding about my neighbor either. Everything that is visible is in perfect order but things fall out of the closets. lol I just wondered if a person can be OCD in some ways but not others.


lol, If the neighbor is truly OCD about stuff being organized and all things visible are in perfect order, the compulsion to organize would require even the closets to be in order, however, since they are not, this seems more like a paranoia of what others would think if it was not in order, anxiety about image, but perhpas not true OCD.

sort of like a woman who always wears a beautiful dress, always has well manicured nails, always has every hair in place, but her panties are worn out, stained, and have holes in them. She's just all about image.
 
***********************************
You are assuming this SMD thinks like you, reacts like you, talks like you, replies like you think YOU would.

I'll just say this. If SMD has Asperger's, he would NOT react or respond in the manner you would or you think you would. It doesn't mean he's lying, it simply means that not everyone reacts and replies with the same thought process as the next person. Innocent people have said crazy things and reacted in odd ways in tons of cases, but the key word is innocent. The public, in general, judges another person by the way the public thinks they should act or reply. It's not always gonna be the way you think or would like it to be, and when it's not, it does NOT constitute a person of being guilty. Evidence and hard facts prove or disprove these things in a court of law. Here's an example:

The public listened to the slanted version of stories that Nancy Grace twisted up for entertainment purposes for her viewers so they would gasp and keep tuning in, so they got all hyped up and wanted some of Casey Anthony's blood in return. BUT, in the trial, as well as official legal documents, many of the things Grace said were not even brought up or brought out. The jury heard the evidence, which was basically NOTHING, they had to follow the law and the rules given to them, reviewing the questions on their paper one by one, answering each question based on the evidence. What they learned was that since the trial showed NO evidence of the way the child died, they didn't know. They learned that the trial revealed NO proof that Casey was involved in the death of her child, and it actually could have been someone else, therefore, they could not answer those jury questions. If they can't answer all questions under each charge, they can't vote to convict her of any of them. The questions have to be answered on their papers and supported by the evidence presented to them in the trial, or they can't convict. That's what happened, BUT the public went crazy because most were all fired up by the talking TV heads and they were not even on the same page as the jury.

As far as SMD goes, the same thing could happen if the talking tv heads got their hands on this. Nancy would say you must be an idiot to not think this guy did it because he allegedly had this master key that police found in his apartment, so bam! She's judged him and encouraged her viewers to do the same. She would hang him on that one tidbit, but I would say to HER that if the master key opens all doors in that complex, it could certainly open SMD's door just the same way it could have opened LG's and could be planted there intentionally. Until we know what evidence police have to firm up a suspect and charge him OR HER with the crime, we have to assume he's innocent of everything and wait for the EVIDENCE to tell the tale, not a sensationalist on TV or anywhere else.

And when SMD made the statement about LG's car being there for days, the logic behind that statement is so simple. He was taken with other friends of LG's to be questioned for hours before he even showed back up there where the cameras were. If investigators asked him if he had noticed her car there for days, he could infer that it WAS there for days. Did anyone think that investigators may have said something like this to SMD- "The landlord said the car was parked there for 3 days (or 2 or whatever) from her best recollection of seeing it, so how many days do you recall seeing it sit there? "-

Simple. They could have clearly said it to him and he repeated it. He WAS at the police department with other of LG's friends for hours BEFORE that interview. It was NOT the other way around.

If you're interested, there is a song on youtube by James Scott. He sings a song called Through My Eyes about having Asperger's.
James Scott HAS ASPERGER'S.

(here are a few lines from the song)

I'm not blind but I can't always see.
I'm not deaf, but things just sound strange to me.
I'm not trapped but it's hard to be free.
Imagine what it's like to be me.

It's hard for me to try to think things through
or talk like you

Everything can be a blur sometimes,
if you walk along beside me,
hold my hand to guide me
Together any mountain we can climb..

Dreamin of my future
and it's brighter than you know....

The point is, if you don't understand Asperger's, which I believe is entirely possible with SMD, then you can't even BEGIN to know how he would react or reply. If his responses don't match what you think YOURS would be, that does NOT mean he's guilty of anything.

Also, Asperger's does not equal STUPID. (Yes, normal for most to attend college, yep, even law school. Albert Einstein is thought to have been on the autism spectrum, as well.) People with Asperger's are extremely brilliant & most have GREAT language skills & are very social, however, social situations may be awkward, such as starting a conversation with a topic that seems to fit the moment, and eye contact may be minimal or the eyes dart about when speaking.

I will repeat that I feel this is entirely possible with SMD and think it should be considered.


Missinglovedones,
I recognize your passionate concern, however, the post you refer to was merely my opinion.
See reference post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 27 June 2011 - #4


Should a medical diagnosis be made that McD has aspergers then I will definitely research aspergers and decide if aspergers should be taken into consideration when forming my opinion.

Until then, I will continue to evaluate and form my opinion of McD based on logic, facts, and common sense, which, according to my understanding, is acceptable and encouraged here on WS.

For further clarification, please see my post:

For further clarification of my opinion of McD and this case, please see my recent post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 27 June 2011 - #4
 
The apartment still needs wall and plumbing repairs, and it won&#8217;t be ready for a new tenant for another week or so. But it has been rented.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html#ixzz1TflMkrEG

No kidding. Investigators ripped out the bathtub. But a clump of frizzy hair on the bathroom floor is noteworthy?!?! Ya think the police overlooked that in their search??
:eek:hoh: Good thing the cub reporters were johnny on the spot. I hope the FBI has been notified of their finding. And did I understand that the apartment "wasn't really clean". I mean, heavens to Betsy, the least those old cops could've done was use a little lemon Pledge after they tossed the place! But what really worries me is the condition of the pantry. Have mercy! What kind of a nut doesn't turn at least a few of his soup cans backwards, for crying out loud! :noooo:

I don't mean to disparage any of our members who've responded to this report, but the last segment of this otherwise informative article should have been omitted. The implications are absurd and an insult to readers. IMO
:loser:
 
It's Asperger's,

I know for some people, it is easier to disregard something as irrelevant if you don't really know about it, or care to learn enough to weight it as a possible explanation for behaviors that are being described as odd. It's just sad to me, although I respect our difference in viewpoints.

If you try to drive a car with 3 wheels, you're gonna be missing something and really won't get anywhere successfully. It's so much better when someone gives you the 4th tire and you're no longer stuck on 3 wheels, but that's completely up to you whether or not to accept the tire that makes the car roll. I would be pretty upset if my spouse deemed the 4th tire irrelevant and made me sit there for days trying to get those 3 wheels to take us somewhere.

I think that unfortunately, this is an area where a person has to have some first-hand experience in order to be able to accurately weigh its relevance. If you've not had significant interaction with a person dealing with Asperger's, all the armchair psychology and reading in the world probably isn't going to help you. On the other hand, if you've got that experience, you can often spot the subtle signs very quickly and accurately.

I also feel quite strongly that there are signs of Asperger's in his speech and mannerisms.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
86
Guests online
501
Total visitors
587

Forum statistics

Threads
596,479
Messages
18,048,371
Members
230,011
Latest member
Ms.Priss74
Back
Top