GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 8

[Backwoods]

I don't think anyone suggests that there is a clear cut answer. Psychomom, correct me if I am wrong...it is my understanding that there is no one test that you can do for these personality disorders and no one thing that happens in a child's history that definitely makes them "this or that."

I have seen profiles written on certain murderers, and then seen papers that re-evaluate that analysis.

We have a tiny portion of what LE has and a tiny snippet into someone's life. Who knows...but it does pass the time to research and speculate.

Seems like we are basically in agreement here. (Replying since you referenced my post when making your post.)

 

[clkwrks]

I thought that too, but a quick google search shows the Guntmann method can delete individual files (not just the entire hard drive). I've never tried it myself though.

Good point, there are programs available that will do files selectively, but I've never tried them either. I always overwrite the entire drive because it's the best way, for me, to be sure nothing is left. If someone really knows what files to delete they could make it difficult to trace their activity without losing their OS. But, files like index.dat and others on Windows platforms store a lot of info about a users activity and if it were deleted Windows would recreate it automatically and a tech would see the file creation date. And would see when activity resumed. Not incriminating, but would be seen as odd.
I'm not as familiar with Macs but believe there are similar files that would automatically be recreated if deleted that would show some attempt to hide what you're doing.

 

[Backwoods]

Seems that at the link we've already had to the latest Macon Telegraph article on the case ...

link: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/17/1668142/youngest-giddings-sister-is-college.html

... the reporters are continuing to use their recently-adopted wording to talk about the hacksaw packaging:

Quote: "An arrest warrant alleges that authorities found a hacksaw with Giddings’ DNA in a locked room at the apartment complex. The packaging for the saw was found in McDaniel’s apartment, as were a master key to the complex and a key to Giddings’ residence."

No more ambiguous "packaging for a saw of the same brand", etc. Have they gotten some kind of clarification from LE on the meaning of the words in the warrant, do y'all think?

I understand the "common sense" aspect of this, but the fact remains that the warrant is not clearly worded to indicate "packaging from the same saw", IMO.

Forensic science buffs: How could it be determined that saw packaging in one location matched a saw in another location?

Also interesting to note (though maybe not so very important) is that the article says the keys were in his apartment, while the warrant says they were in his possession.

for reference, link to warrant: http://media.macon.com/static/graphics/0805McDanielWarrant.jpg

 

[PsychoMom]

Seems that at the link we've already had to the latest Macon Telegraph article on the case ...

link: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/17/1668142/youngest-giddings-sister-is-college.html

... the reporters are continuing to use their recently-adopted wording to talk about the hacksaw packaging:

Quote: "An arrest warrant alleges that authorities found a hacksaw with Giddings’ DNA in a locked room at the apartment complex. The packaging for the saw was found in McDaniel’s apartment, as were a master key to the complex and a key to Giddings’ residence."

No more ambiguous "packaging for a saw of the same brand", etc. Have they gotten some kind of clarification from LE on the meaning of the words in the warrant, do y'all think?

I understand the "common sense" aspect of this, but the fact remains that the warrant is not clearly worded to indicate "packaging from the same saw", IMO.

Forensic science buffs: How could it be determined that saw packaging in one location matched a saw in another location?

Also interesting to note (though maybe not so very important) is that the article says the keys were in his apartment, while the warrant says they were in his possession.

I would think if LE had confirmed it was THE packaging, they would have had a major news story showing a link had been made. I think it is just continued bad writing on their part. I really would expect these reporters to step up their game and be more accurate and less vague knowing this case has garnered national attention. I would think they would want to stop looking incapable of writing at a more professional level.

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

Seems that at the link we've already had to the latest Macon Telegraph article on the case ...

link: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/17/1668142/youngest-giddings-sister-is-college.html

... the reporters are continuing to use their recently-adopted wording to talk about the hacksaw packaging:

Quote: "An arrest warrant alleges that authorities found a hacksaw with Giddings’ DNA in a locked room at the apartment complex. The packaging for the saw was found in McDaniel’s apartment, as were a master key to the complex and a key to Giddings’ residence."

No more ambiguous "packaging for a saw of the same brand", etc. Have they gotten some kind of clarification from LE on the meaning of the words in the warrant, do y'all think?

I understand the "common sense" aspect of this, but the fact remains that the warrant is not clearly worded to indicate "packaging from the same saw", IMO.

Forensic science buffs: How could it be determined that saw packaging in one location matched a saw in another location?

Also interesting to note (though maybe not so very important) is that the article says the keys were in his apartment, while the warrant says they were in his possession.

Very interesting , and great catch Backwoods!

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Good point, there are programs available that will do files selectively, but I've never tried them either. I always overwrite the entire drive because it's the best way, for me, to be sure nothing is left. If someone really knows what files to delete they could make it difficult to trace their activity without losing their OS. But, files like index.dat and others on Windows platforms store a lot of info about a users activity and if it were deleted Windows would recreate it automatically and a tech would see the file creation date. And would see when activity resumed. Not incriminating, but would be seen as odd.
I'm not as familiar with Macs but believe there are similar files that would automatically be recreated if deleted that would show some attempt to hide what you're doing.

Yep yep, very similar for Macs.

 

[ThinMan]

about the part I bolded:

That's good thinking! I've wished I had a diagram of the layout of the rooms of the adjacent apartments, for various reasons, but I hadn't thought about the possibility of hearing the shower next door come on.

It's a lead pipe cinch that the bathrooms & showers in BH apartments back up to each other with a common wall. Just makes sense that these concrete block construction apartments are mirror images of each other and that plumbing for bathrooms would be placed within the interior wall (to avoid the occasional frozen pipe problem). Only better evidence would be testimony from a resident or former resident about how the apts are laid out.

Good thinking, indeed!

 

[pearl]

about the part I bolded:

That's good thinking! I've wished I had a diagram of the layout of the rooms of the adjacent apartments, for various reasons, but I hadn't thought about the possibility of hearing the shower next door come on.

I do realize that the discussion has moved past this issue and is into computer forensics now, but I thought I would share this. I think we would find that in many apartment buildings and hotels built with economy of cost in mind, the bathrooms would share a common wall so that they could use some of the same plumbing pipes. When we built our house, we moved an upstairs bathroom to where it would sit over a downstairs bathroom so they could share some drainage pipes. If you think about it, in some hotels you can hear the shower, etc in the next room because the bathrooms are built back to back. If I remember correctly, wasn't Barrister's Hall complex at one time some type of federally funded housing? If so, I'm sure costs would have been cut in any way possible. Posting is not earth shattering. Just sharing ideas.

Didn't see Thinman's post before I did mine. I didn't think of the possible freezing of the pipes though.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I think he probably did try to break in Thursday night; perhaps that's even the night he'd planned to do it all along. What are the odds that someone (a Macon hoodlum, if you will) would try to break in three nights before someone else actually does and murder her?

Maybe he tried to unlock the door and discovered he couldn't because of the jam, then he locks the door back but the jam was moved slightly leading her to think someone tried to break in? But I guess I would think that she would have called the police to report it. We know she had called them twice before while living there for other instances.

I had a thought this morning when I heard my neighbor's shower come on through the wall. I've been in one apt. at BH that was on the right side if looking at the doors (like SM's). I remember that the bathroom was on the left of the unit, most likely sharing the wall with the neighbor's bathroom if the layouts are flipped. What if he could hear her shower come on? Maybe she only used the door jam when she started to go to bed. He knew he could try the door and if it unlocked, he could slip in without her hearing him and she'd be backed into a corner so to speak if she were in the shower. Also, if the attack got messy, the bathroom is easier to clean and blood would go down the drain. Just a thought, of course....

Maybe it is just me, but when I come in from a run, especially if the weather is hot, the first thing I do is secure my apartment. I know that even if I feel really strong after a tough run, I might be a little weak (eg, dehydrated or need to eat), so I don't want to risk someone breaking in. Also, and maybe this is because Psycho made a very lasting impression on me, I absolutely do not get in the shower without the doors locked and the jam in place. The running water and fan make it so hard to hear if there is an intruder!

 

[ehmadpotter]

I do realize that the discussion has moved past this issue and is into computer forensics now, but I thought I would share this. I think we would find that in many apartment buildings and hotels built with economy of cost in mind, the bathrooms would share a common wall so that they could use some of the same plumbing pipes. When we built our house, we moved an upstairs bathroom to where it would sit over a downstairs bathroom so they could share some drainage pipes. If you think about it, in some hotels you can hear the shower, etc in the next room because the bathrooms are built back to back. If I remember correctly, wasn't Barrister's Hall complex at one time some type of federally funded housing? If so, I'm sure costs would have been cut in any way possible. Posting is not earth shattering. Just sharing ideas.

Didn't see Thinman's post before I did mine. I didn't think of the possible freezing of the pipes though.

I haven't figured out posting jpegs here yet, but here's a link to a photo of a plumber working on McD's drainpipes, through LG's wall, which clearly shows the wall outside her bathroom, from which said plumber is accessing McD's bathroom plumbing. I hope this puts to rest whether they shared a bathroom wall or not.
http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649722/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

Quote from caption of photo link: " Richard Holbrook with Frank Irby Plumbing reaches through a wall in Lauren Giddings' apartment to help remove a drain stuck in the bath tub at Stephen McDaniel's apartment Friday.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649722/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html#ixzz1VKzF432o

 

[bessie]

There's a fundamental design principle that says shorter pipes and fewer junctions equal better flow. It's also more cost effective. In multiple dwelling properties, the standard design has adjacent bathrooms stacked on top of each other where there is more than one story. The fixtures might be on opposite sides, but the bathrooms share a common wall.

Oops...I see someone beat me to it. LOL A picture is, indeed, worth a thousand words.

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

I haven't figured out posting jpegs here yet, but here's a link to a photo of a plumber working on McD's drainpipes, through LG's wall, which clearly shows the wall outside her bathroom, from which said plumber is accessing McD's bathroom plumbing. I hope this puts to rest whether they shared a bathroom wall or not.
http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649722/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

Quote from caption of photo link: " Richard Holbrook with Frank Irby Plumbing reaches through a wall in Lauren Giddings' apartment to help remove a drain stuck in the bath tub at Stephen McDaniel's apartment Friday.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649722/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html#ixzz1VKzF432o

I looked at this earlier too. I also noticed the layout of their bathrooms are different.
I guess I'd assumed the two units were identical. Would be interesting to see some actual floorplans.
LG: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649724/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html
SM: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649727/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

 

[Backwoods]

Maybe it is just me, but when I come in from a run, especially if the weather is hot, the first thing I do is secure my apartment. I know that even if I feel really strong after a tough run, I might be a little weak (eg, dehydrated or need to eat), so I don't want to risk someone breaking in. Also, and maybe this is because Psycho made a very lasting impression on me, I absolutely do not get in the shower without the doors locked and the jam in place. The running water and fan make it so hard to hear if there is an intruder!

Absolutely! And I figure: If you leave a key outside in a not-super-hard-to-find spot AND you have a door jam or brace, you probably are less worried about someone robbing you of things while you aren't there and more worried about someone confronting you personally while you are off-guard or incapacitated in some way...like while you are asleep or in the shower. (I think Psycho made a lasting impression on a lot of people!)

 

[Nancysleuth]

Maybe it is just me, but when I come in from a run, especially if the weather is hot, the first thing I do is secure my apartment. I know that even if I feel really strong after a tough run, I might be a little weak (eg, dehydrated or need to eat), so I don't want to risk someone breaking in. Also, and maybe this is because Psycho made a very lasting impression on me, I absolutely do not get in the shower without the doors locked and the jam in place. The running water and fan make it so hard to hear if there is an intruder!

The first thin I do when I come is lock the door as well, although I don't have a door jam so who knows how often she bothered to use it. One other possibility is of course that he let himself in with his copy of the key while she was out for a run. Lock the door again once inside and wait for her to come home.

 

[Backwoods]

Think we kind of reached a consensus that the macon.com chat the other day was not anything to shout about.

link, if you didn't catch it live or haven't looked at the recap yet: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/15/166...he-reporters-giddings.html#storylink=misearch

One part I did find sort of interesting, though. The reporters were asked for a timeline from when Lauren was last seen until SM was taken into custody. Joe Kovac Jr. answered:
quote:


"No disrespect, but if we could answer that one maybe the case would be solved. As to when Lauren Giddings was last "seen" ... it was sometime on the night of June 25, a Saturday. But the police have not divulged many specifics."

Now such a timeline, I know, would cover many things, but the last part of Joe's response takes me back to when we first learned (publicly) about some details not published before about Lauren's activities on the 25th, through an article in The Washington Post. Remember, toward the end of the long story ...

link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...o-heartache/2011/08/05/gIQAj47IzI_story_4.htm

...we saw, published for the first time, the details that Lauren spent Friday night at a friend's; that she went to the country club to swim and sun the next day; that the Zaxby's receipt and wrappers were found in her car -- when most of us had seen reported before that they were found in her apartment. (From the general angle of this story and from the fact that it is in a paper more "local" to the Giddings family than to Macon, I feel like these details probably were given to the writer by the family or close friends.) And I still wonder, did Lauren go somewhere else, before returning to the apartment ... and if so, when did she return? Was she seen, after 6:30 or so, by anyone besides her killer?

(The WP article referenced above indicates she did return to the apartment, just as we've assumed all along, because it mentions her typing that last email on her computer "in her apartment", and I'm guessing that some of the earlier communications she had with family and friends probably also indicated that she had returned. But I wonder...when?)

Another thing I wonder about: In the Macon news reports, mentions of a person "believed to be Lauren" being captured on video at the Zaxby's say her arm is visible in the video, reaching out to take her food. (Is this what is normally captured on video, or was the camera not angled right or something...?) The same reports say she was "alone" in the vehicle. How do they know that, if all they can see is her arm?

 

[Wondergirl]

Thank-you Emmadpotter for posting the link to those pictures again.

Ummm, I couldn't help but notice that there is not any (or much) black dusting in SM's bathroom. Not near the quantity that's in Lauren's.

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649727/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

 

[bessie]

Think we kind of reached a consensus that the macon.com chat the other day was not anything to shout about.

link, if you didn't catch it live or haven't looked at the recap yet: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/15/166...he-reporters-giddings.html#storylink=misearch

One part I did find sort of interesting, though. The reporters were asked for a timeline from when Lauren was last seen until SM was taken into custody. Joe Kovac Jr. answered:
quote:


"No disrespect, but if we could answer that one maybe the case would be solved. As to when Lauren Giddings was last "seen" ... it was sometime on the night of June 25, a Saturday. But the police have not divulged many specifics."

Now such a timeline, I know, would cover many things, but the last part of Joe's response takes me back to when we first learned (publicly) about some details not published before about Lauren's activities on the 25th, through an article in The Washington Post. Remember, toward the end of the long story ...

link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...o-heartache/2011/08/05/gIQAj47IzI_story_4.htm

...we saw, published for the first time, the details that Lauren spent Friday night at a friend's; that she went to the country club to swim and sun the next day; that the Zaxby's receipt and wrappers were found in her car -- when most of us had seen reported before that they were found in her apartment. (From the general angle of this story and from the fact that it is in a paper more "local" to the Giddings family than to Macon, I feel like these details probably were given to the writer by the family or close friends.) And I still wonder, did Lauren go somewhere else, before returning to the apartment ... and if so, when did she return? Was she seen, after 6:30 or so, by anyone besides her killer?

(The WP article referenced above indicates she did return to the apartment, just as we've assumed all along, because it mentions her typing that last email on her computer "in her apartment", and I'm guessing that some of the earlier communications she had with family and friends probably also indicated that she had returned. But I wonder...when?)

Another thing I wonder about: In the Macon news reports, mentions of a person "believed to be Lauren" being captured on video at the Zaxby's say her arm is visible in the video, reaching out to take her food. (Is this what is normally captured on video, or was the camera not angled right or something...?) The same reports say she was "alone" in the vehicle. How do they know that, if all they can see is her arm?

Not sure what to make of this yet, but the cashier would've been questioned, and might've given a statement saying it was LG in the car, and she was alone.

 

[bessie]

I looked at this earlier too. I also noticed the layout of their bathrooms are different.
I guess I'd assumed the two units were identical. Would be interesting to see some actual floorplans.
LG: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649724/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html
SM: http://www.macon.com/2011/07/30/1649794_a1649727/barristers-hall-getting-ready.html

I think these photos are mixed up. In the one where we see the plumber reaching through the wall he's supposed to be in LG's apartment, right? We can see into the bathroom, and the tub and toilet are next to each other. So, the bathroom with tub and toilet on opposite walls must be McD's. That is the one covered in fingerprint dust.

ETA: Never mind. I had to zoom way, way in, but now I can see the toilet is perpendicular to the door in LG's apartment.

 

[PsychoMom]

Not sure what to make of this yet, but the cashier would've been questioned, and might've given a statement saying it was LG in the car, and she was alone.

I don't think most fast food restaurants would remember one person that well. They may remember her face, especially after it hit the news they were at the drive-thru, but I seriously doubt they can remember who is in every car. Depending on the angle, they may not have even been able to see in the passengar seat. It does bring up some interesting thinking.

 

[Backwoods]

I don't think most fast food restaurants would remember one person that well. They may remember her face, especially after it hit the news they were at the drive-thru, but I seriously doubt they can remember who is in every car. Depending on the angle, they may not have even been able to see in the passengar seat. It does bring up some interesting thinking.

...or the back seat.