GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 8

[PsychoMom]

No, no theories, just backing up my earlier statements that the hacksaw evidence contained in the warrant is likely to be evidence that is "flawed" in some way. Since it seems to me that it would be hard (not to say impossible, because I really don't know) to firmly link the packaging in one place with the saw in another, this confirms for me my thought that LE might use that evidence -- which has impact, for sure -- on the warrant partly to be able to justify the warrant while still holding back any "better stuff" from the defense a bit longer.

I do need to amend the statement I made about the Macon Telegraph only recently referring to "packaging from the hacksaw" instead of "packaging from a hacksaw of the same brand" or something like that. Looking back more closely, I find that the Telegraph has actually been pretty consistent in using the less ambiguous wording -- my mistake! It was other news outlets that seemed to try to keep from linking the saw and the packaging so definitively.

As far as the media interpretation goes, to me it boils down to how to interpret the wording in the warrant: (quote): "A package for the same such Stanley brand hacksaw was found in the apartment of the accused."

Question seems to be, does the legalese modifier "same such" modify the term "Stanley brand" or does it modify the word "hacksaw"?

I found this info. I think it pretty much answers your question about the modifier they are using. Basically, they are wrong.
http://maconpolice.us/?p=1138

Update on Lauren Giddings Homicide – 8/05/2011
~snipped for the question at hand~
11. According to the Arrest Warrant executed on August 2, 2011:

a. Stephen McDaniel had in his possession a key to the victim’s apartment and a master key that unlocked every door in that apartment complex.
b. A Stanley brand hacksaw was found in a locked storage closet at the apartment complex.
c. The hacksaw was submitted to the FBI Crime Lab for analysis and confirmed the presence of the victim’s DNA on the blade.
d. A package for the same such Stanley brand hacksaw was found in McDaniel’s apartment.
e. McDaniel previously commented that he could commit murder, and provided details of methods to avoid detection, which are similar to the facts and circumstances surrounding the killing of Lauren Giddings.
~continues at link~

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

This report, from the Giddings family's area I think, rather than Macon, hints at a landfill search to come. Not as much info in that vein as the headline seems to promise, but still interesting:

Quote: "Family of murdered law student hoping to find more evidence"

"The family of a promising young law school graduate from Howard County, who was murdered in Georgia, is hoping to find more evidence to connect the suspect to the crime. ..."

read more at link: http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/re...ered-law-student-hoping-to-find-more-evidence

Reading that article, the reporter makes it sound like the family thinks the evidence given on the warrant is all that LE has.
However, I also get the impression the reporter spent less than 5 minutes putting that together. :tsktsk:

 

[Wondergirl]

An Element of Truth:

I believe that the statement regarding the hacksaw, that SM made to this mother, as repeated by Glenda McDaniel, had an element of truth in it.

After having watched someone use a saw recently, I can imagine that the tool of convenience (hacksaw) was actually fairly tedious and time consuming to use, for such a gruesome and despicable act of dismemberment.

Glenda McDaniel makes it clear in this statement, that her son was animated and dismayed with the uselessness of the tool.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that the animated description was related to the Bradford Pear Tree. MOO

Besides all that, who throws a brand new tool in the garbage, in plain view, for someone to see and take out of the garbage? Most people would be sure to bury a tool that could possibly harm someone, inside the bag, not in view at all.

“The hacksaw was flimsy, and it bent and twisted and did no good at all, and he threw it in the garbage,” Glenda McDaniel said.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2011/08/06/1656586/mcdaniels-mother-offers-explanation.html#ixzz1VaMNslYi
​

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

:blowkiss: Please make room in your inbox...don't know if you realized it was full.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

An Element of Truth:

I believe that the statement regarding the hacksaw, that SM made to this mother, as repeated by Glenda McDaniel, had an element of truth in it.

After having watched someone use a saw recently, I can imagine that the tool of convenience (hacksaw) was actually fairly tedious and time consuming to use, for such a gruesome and despicable act of dismemberment.

Glenda McDaniel makes it clear in this statement, that her son was animated and dismayed with the uselessness of the tool.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that the animated description was related to the Bradford Pear Tree. MOO

Besides all that, who throws a brand new tool in the garbage, in plain view, for someone to see and take out of the garbage? Most people would be sure to bury a tool that could possibly harm someone, inside the bag, not in view at all.

Errr, I would return it and make sure I got my money back. :twocents:

However, I just used an inexpensive old hacksaw because I moved to a new place, and the blinds I bought were about 3" too wide for some of the windows. (It's an older building, and the windows aren't all the same size, plus they have really deep window sills so I had to cut some of the rack or whatever it's called to make em fit.) I had absolutely no difficulties cutting thru metal. I also cut thru some hard (not soft) wood to fix up an old bookshelf, and it was easy as pie.

But I think that you may well be right...most lies do have some truth in them, :cow:.

 

[Sandstorm]

The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry... as McD now realizes (?).
However, sometimes they work out as planned: "She was just gone."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/what-happened-to-katelyn-markham--1232476.html

 

[GeorgiaRoyalty]

I have been to that Zaxby's a gazillion times. I have never paid any attention to check for cameras...I am almost willing to bet in Macon there is DEF cameras somewhere. I am about to travel in that direction in a few hours. I may stop and do a little snooping. I pass the BH apt. complex pretty often. If you are not consciously looking for these apts you will pass right by them, esp at night time they are virtually hidden, meaning it wouldn't take much effort at all to go unnoticed esp if a person has a key to both upstairs apt's.

Once thing I noticed on BH's website last night is they openly advertised being "SAFE". This almost made my stomach turn esp considering management/ownership could have unintentionally contributed to a gruesome murder by being negligent and flat out lazy

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

I have been to that Zaxby's a gazillion times. I have never paid any attention to check for cameras...I am almost willing to bet in Macon there is DEF cameras somewhere. I am about to travel in that direction in a few hours. I may stop and do a little snooping. I pass the BH apt. complex pretty often. If you are not consciously looking for these apts you will pass right by them, esp at night time they are virtually hidden, meaning it wouldn't take much effort at all to go unnoticed esp if a person has a key to both upstairs apt's.

Once thing I noticed on BH's website last night is they openly advertised being "SAFE". This almost made my stomach turn esp considering management/ownership could have unintentionally contributed to a gruesome murder by being negligent and flat out lazy

If you do stop by the Zaxby's, have a look around the intersection there.
I have a feeling based on the description of what they said the video showed
that the video may have come from a DOT camera.
Have a look and see if it's pointed in that direction.
I'd be interested to know, but I don't know when I'll be in that part of town next...

 

[JeannieC]

Errr, I would return it and make sure I got my money back. :twocents:

However, I just used an inexpensive old hacksaw because I moved to a new place, and the blinds I bought were about 3" too wide for some of the windows. (It's an older building, and the windows aren't all the same size, plus they have really deep window sills so I had to cut some of the rack or whatever it's called to make em fit.) I had absolutely no difficulties cutting thru metal. I also cut thru some hard (not soft) wood to fix up an old bookshelf, and it was easy as pie.

But I think that you may well be right...most lies do have some truth in them, :cow:.

From experience I can tell you these saws aren't made for tree limbs. They do work good on finished wood. Even the cheap ones do if you have a sharp blade. I have used good ones and cheap ones.

 

[Backwoods]

being in his apt. would be the same as being in his possession

nope, not necessarily
He could have had the keys in his pocket or in his car, say, and they would still be "in his possession" as stated in the warrant.

 

[Backwoods]

Reading that article, the reporter makes it sound like the family thinks the evidence given on the warrant is all that LE has.
However, I also get the impression the reporter spent less than 5 minutes putting that together. :tsktsk:

It isn't a very in-depth piece, for sure.

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

From experience I can tell you these saws aren't made for tree limbs. They do work good on finished wood. Even the cheap ones do if you have a sharp blade. I have used good ones and cheap ones.

IMO, no one with a college education, a knife/sword hobby, knowledge of hunting/camping/etc
(his uncle is obviously an avid woodsman) is going to purchase a hacksaw to cut tree limbs. :doh:

 

[Backwoods]

I agree, I think that has to be where the shower rod would have attached. But don't you guys think that, on the day the investigation started, if the rod had been gone, pulled down slightly, or even if the shower curtain were missing, that would have been considered a sign of a struggle or at least struck LE as odd? Her friends and parents have said that there seemed to be no signs of struggle.

I will say that I heard a RUMOR that LG's apartment was found extremely clean. And she was never know to be a neat/clean freak. I'm not saying dirty, just that it was common for her place to be a little cluttered.

Tying in here to the RUMOR bolded above:

I wonder if Lauren had done any packing/moving of her things at all yet? I know that BB said that when she went in the apartment (during the time that LG was missing but before her family and friends realized it) -- and then left the note on LG's door -- that it didn't appear to her that LG was yet preparing for her move scheduled for June 30. I would think it possible, though, that, even before the Saturday she was last seen, she might have packed up and moved/stored some of her stuff...? (In my own case, preparing for a move would almost surely at least temporarily make my surroundings even MORE messy than usual ... but others may be different, of course.)

Also --I'd been wondering how inconvenient it was going to be for LG to move to Atlanta and then have to return to Macon to take the bar exam, because I was thinking that was where the Mercer students would take it ... BUT according to this web site http://www.gabaradmissions.org/pages/informationexam.php
(and more specifically this pdf at the web site: http://www.gabaradmissions.org/pdf/exam_rules.pdf ) ...
the July exam was held in the Atlanta area, so LG would have actually been close to the exam site once she got moved to Atlanta. (Sure that some of you already knew this, but I had not realized this before now.)

edited to add: I think I've just found what may be part of the answer to my own question about the packing, in the article we've already looked at in The Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...-heartache/2011/08/05/gIQAj47IzI_story_4.html

QUOTE:
"Then, in her apartment, about 10:30 that Saturday night, she sat at her computer for the last time, typing an e-mail to (name snipped -her boyfriend).

With her lease due to expire in a week, she was about to start packing. She planned to bunk at friends’ places until she found a job and a permanent place to live. Butterbean, an incessant yapper, was in Maryland with her parents. She had left him there after the Christmas break, wanting one less distraction in her final semester.

She told (name snipped) how much she had enjoyed Mercer and how wonderful Macon had been. Just in passing, without specifics, she told him that she thought someone had tried to break into her apartment recently. “Hoodlums,” she surmised.

She told him she was happy. She told him how excited she was about the future, wherever it might take her."

 

[GeorgiaRoyalty]

nope, not necessarily
He could have had the keys in his pocket or in his car, say, and they would still be "in his possession" as stated in the warrant.

Either or in the eyes of LE its still in his possession...it doesn't matter if its in his pocket or in his sock drawer

 

[Backwoods]

Either or in the eyes of LE its still in his possession...it doesn't matter if its in his pocket or in his sock drawer

Yes, but the discussion was about media reports sometimes being subtly misleading. IMO, the reporter would have done best to stick with the "in his possession" wording from the warrant.

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

This report, from the Giddings family's area I think, rather than Macon, hints at a landfill search to come. Not as much info in that vein as the headline seems to promise, but still interesting:

Quote: "Family of murdered law student hoping to find more evidence"

"The family of a promising young law school graduate from Howard County, who was murdered in Georgia, is hoping to find more evidence to connect the suspect to the crime. ..."

read more at link: http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/re...ered-law-student-hoping-to-find-more-evidence

This is a good timely article, especially since it is from a source other than the locals who I am totally frustrated with. I found a few things interesting: This is the first time I have heard Lauren, she truly was a beautiful girl in every way. Interesting that police say they do not have a motive. Kaitlyn said when McD bragged about being able to get away with murder, he referred to a murder similar to Lauren's ( this may have been pointed out earlier or part of the warrant , come to think of it) And the search for the rest of her body,I still believe, is not only for closure but to establish the cause of death.

 

[SmoothOperator]

a. Stephen McDaniel had in his possession a key to the victim’s apartment and a master key that unlocked every door in that apartment complex.
b. A Stanley brand hacksaw was found in a locked storage closet at the apartment complex.
c. The hacksaw was submitted to the FBI Crime Lab for analysis and confirmed the presence of the victim’s DNA on the blade.
d. A package for the same such Stanley brand hacksaw was found in McDaniel’s apartment.

IMO a key element that is often overlooked in the warrant is the key statement immediately preceding the statement that follows about the Stanley hacksaw being found in a LOCKED storage room of the apt complex..

And that is the statement BBM ^above^ which specifically(and IMO intentionally) states that found to be in Stephen's possession was a masterkey that unlocked all doors in the apartment complex.. which as I stated IMO is no accident that it was worded specifically to say UNLOCKED EVERY DOOR IN THE COMPLEX.. immediately preceding the statement of exactly where the Stanley hacksaw was found..

DD the person labeled as MM my Stephen in his statements to his mom and his attorney Buford.. Much to Stephen's dismay not only was he wrong in labeling DD as a Maintenance Man for BH, IMO he was wrong in assuming this Maintenance Man had access to all the apts(<- which Stephen also made in his statement) by having a masterkey in his possession.. DD was never anything more than a resident contact and was never given a masterkey/access to All apts in the complex..

So while some opinions about*the statement regarding the hacksaw and it's packaging specifically belong to the the particular hacksaw used and contained Lauren's DNA can be argued whether it "matched" .. The clear and precise wording that precedes it let's you know exactly that Stephen had access to the locked storage area not DD..

 

[GeorgiaRoyalty]

Yes, but the discussion was about media reports sometimes being subtly misleading. IMO, the reporter would have done best to stick with the "in his possession" wording from the warrant.

Ok...understood...

-I stopped by the Zaxbys about 2 hours ago and went thru the drivethru. I didn't see any noticeable camera. I did see a monitor above the cash register, but I couldn't place my eye on a camera. I have to drive right by there to get back home. I may stop in and do some more snooping...if so I will report back

 

[~SuperSleuth~]

I did a little searching on the surveillance camera video report.
This is the only article I could find that explicitly states the video was from a Zaxby's camera.

Two weeks ago, sometime around 6:30 on Saturday evening, someone who authorities believe was Lauren Giddings, alone in her car, pulled up to the drive-through window at a Zaxby’s restaurant in downtown Macon. The eatery’s surveillance camera captured a clip of her arm reaching out to grab her order.

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/09/1625474/police-hope-lab-results-from-74.html

However, I'm not sure this is correct because I have a problem with this quote.
How could a Zaxby's camera only "capture a clip of her arm reaching out to grab her order",
and at the same time capture enough for LE to "believe was Lauren Giddings, alone in her car" :waitasec:

To capture a clip of her arm sounds like it must be a camera inside the restaurant.
However, to capture this AND enough for LE to believe it was LG alone in her car,
the camera would have to be outside. And it would seem at some distance.
If it were under the drive-through canopy or attached to the building, it would have been close enough
to clearly see who was driving - hence no "believe" and no "clip of her arm".
So, this is why I'm suspecting either a parking lot camera or DOT camera at the intersection.

:twocents: Not that this has any bearing on anything

 

[GeorgiaRoyalty]

I did a little searching on the surveillance camera video report.
This is the only article I could find that explicitly states the video was from a Zaxby's camera.

However, I'm not sure this is correct because I have a problem with this quote.
How could a Zaxby's camera only "capture a clip of her arm reaching out to grab her order",
and at the same time capture enough for LE to "believe was Lauren Giddings, alone in her car" :waitasec:

To capture a clip of her arm sounds like it must be a camera inside the restaurant.
However, to capture this AND enough for LE to believe it was LG alone in her car,
the camera would have to be outside. And it would seem at some distance.
If it were under the drive-through canopy or attached to the building, it would have been close enough
to clearly see who was driving - hence no "believe" and no "clip of her arm".
So, this is why I'm suspecting either a parking lot camera or DOT camera at the intersection.

:twocents: Not that this has any bearing on anything

They cld have possibly matched the time of her order from her recept to the time of the surveillance camera(possibly)