GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam Co, 2 May 2014 - #13

[Bibi55]

I'd like to view the video of Mr Dermond in the supermarket if you've got a link handy. Interested to see the younger guy who enters the store.

What? "The man was seen on their front lawn on Saturday by a neighbour. I wonder where the Dermonds were killed." That's marvelous as I did not think one eyewitness had seen a thing at the D's on that fateful Kentucky Derby Day. Is there a description of the man who was seen on their yard?

Why both of them? Why was it important to take Russ and Shirley away then return them to their garage? Who benefited from their murders? The original Crime Scene is likely close to their home. It may require seclusion as not to attract others from the gunfire + an outdoors place for what was done to Mr. Dermond with a mighty sharp straight edge weapon.

While it is horrific, evil and sad, it may not necessarily be hatred that made the killer beat Shirley. It was a v sadistic killing. Perhaps she was made to watch her husband lose his head?

We may think of the MOB or Mafia acting this way bc this is one horrific, sadistic, double homicide. Thrill kills are premeditated murders.

The major common denominator among those who commit thrill killings is that they usually feel inadequate and are driven by a need to feel powerful. "To a certain extent, they [thrill killers] may make their victims suffer so that they can feel good," said Levin. "Sadism is fairly common in thrill killings. The killer might torture, degrade, or rape his victim before he or she takes his or her life."[4] They frequently have an "ideal victim type" who has certain physical characteristics.[1][5

 

[Bibi55]

The video of Mr Dermond in store is on UTube and it’s by 11Alive and titled “the murders at Lake Oconee 4 years later couples son opens up”. It’s at the beginning of video you first see the couple who follow him into store

 

[Ladyotm]

Could be I guess but now you got me thinking what if it was something like the movie Funny Games. How frightening! But would make sense since there was no obvious motive. And no signs of forced entry or struggle or anything in the house missing. Obviously whoever did this wanted them dead but maybe it wasn't personal at all. A neat-looking teenager offering help with gardening etc may not seem suspicious to many people. I think LE may have focused on the adults living around the lake at the time (if they did check) but what about the kids

I had to go read up on the plot of Funny Games. You might be on to something. Killing just for the thrill of it.

 

[Bibi55]

May 24, 2023

“We continue to try new things. We had something. Whether that’s going to evolve into something else, I don’t know,” Sills said. “At this point in time, there has to be some more analysis done.”

Sills said he’s hopeful the new DNA will lead to breaks in the case, though he did say he’s not sure there’s enough to run the DNA through a national database in search of a match with a suspect.

“There has to be an additional test done to what’s been developed so far and whether or not that is potentially enough to run it through CODIS,” Sills said.

The other question is whether or not the DNA belongs to the killer.

“We have some potential DNA that may or may not be identifiable,” Sills said. “And it could still be the Dermonds.”

The sheriff said he has also now received the long-awaited results of geo-fencing, a means of identifying certain mobile devices that were active during a certain time period in a specific area, in this case, a period of time around when authorities believe the murders occurred and an area of several acres, including the Dermond home.

“There’s nobody on there with any kind of alarming criminal history,” Sills said. “And there’s nobody there, at least at this juncture, that I know has any connection to the Dermonds.”

Sills said that the new DNA could be the most significant development in the case in years.

[..]

New DNA evidence could finally solve murders of husband found beheaded, wife dropped in Lake Oconee

The new evidence could be the most significant development in the puzzling case in years.

www.wsbtv.com

Really wasn’t surprised at his news. No intelligent offender is going to conduct a serious crime like this carrying their own mobile phone. They probably took Burner phones bought in false names or walkie talkie devices

 

[fred&edna]

Really wasn’t surprised at his news. No intelligent offender is going to conduct a serious crime like this carrying their own mobile phone. They probably took Burner phones bought in false names or walkie talkie devices

If Brian Kohberger is guilty of the murders in Idaho, he sure kept his phone close.

 

[ilovewings]

Really wasn’t surprised at his news. No intelligent offender is going to conduct a serious crime like this carrying their own mobile phone. They probably took Burner phones bought in false names or walkie talkie devices

First of all most offenders are not really intelligent- second- even if a killer is intelligent, when someone becomes a killer they don't always use their intelligence: killers usually (not always) make a mistake or two- which is why most of them (not all) get caught. There is an emotional aspect to a murder- murderers have made stupid mistakes because of that emotional aspect of the crime or because they were in a hurry, or well, just because.

 

[Chewy]

I personally don’t think it was so large a timeframe. SS says Their paper was delivered Friday and it looks like Shirley had started doing crosswords. One of Dermond’s opened an email Friday. I think It started early Sat morning because post Mortem on Shirely Dermond she was fully dressed in day clothes ready for her day but Russel was still in his pjs so probably still in bed or in process of getting up. They said Shirley usually got up from bed earlier then Russel. The man was seen on their front lawn on Saturday by a neighbour. I wonder where the Dermonds were killed. SS says they both died around same time. I really wonder where they were killed. The house was too clean for it to be done there. Whoever planned and/or committed this crime really hated the Dermonds in my opinion. I think money is involved somehow it is root of all evil. This was a well planned, thought out and executive crime. Could be a murder for hire. I doubt the technological equipment they have been using to pick up telecommunications equipment in area of residence will turn up much. These perps would not be stupid enough to carry their own mobiles. They would have burner phones if anything or walkie talkies. I watched the video of Mr Dermond at supermarket several times. Couldn’t help but notice the younger man who entered store after him kept looking in his direction a lot while Russel was getting his trolley. After watching See No Evil so many times where they capture people on camera you start to notice these things. I think SS should get some fresh eyes on this investigation. Horrible to think these evil killers are walking the streets.

I really hope they open this case again. Because I was just watching Mike's coverage of it on That Chapter and it was INSTANTLY obvious to me what probably happened. I'm sure someone else may have thought of this but just in case I'll post it here.

Some important clues. They both were killed right around the same time. She was removed from the house. The criminals were not professionals and were trying to do things to cover up the crime or avoid detection. (Taking the head to conceal the bullet, weighing her body down in a lake with cement blocks which any true crime novice knows won't work once the body decays.)

No other motive. Why the over the top mutilations? IMO it was a failed Kidnapping Ransom attempt that went catastrophic because Russell recognized the kidnappers. They had no choice but to kill him. That's why nothing in the house was taken. It switched gears from trying to get money out of them to cover up and get the heck out of dodge.


Shirley was in her day clothes he was in his pajamas. She got up early before him. The kidnappers take her from the house before he even wakes up. She's bundled out to the car and taken to another location. The kidnappers wear a disguise ski mask whatever. One of them then returns to the hosue later when Russell has woken up. They don't call, they don't email they just show up again with their burner cell phone in hand and let him talk to her on the other end of the phone. To prove they have her. They think not calling the house or sending emails or letters avoid evidence. So they show up in person. One's got Shirley the other is talking to Russell.

And he makes the terrible fatal error of trying to reason with the kidnapper by letting him know and his wife know that he knows who they are. Ex on the phone to Shirley "Honey, it's Tommy and his buddies, it's ok, I know we can stop this. "

The minute they realize he recognizes them and knows exactly who they are, they could have just stopped. But kidnapping is a felony that is a capital crime. They are all looking at Life in Prison. So they "had no choice" but to just kill both of them. They didn't bludgeon her because of rage. They honestly didn't expect to have to kill her. They thought they were going to collect on the ransom money and send her back. So they had to clumsily find a weapon, rock, crow bar to smash her with, the overkill was out of inexperience, not rage.

IMO it's someone they worked with or someone who did home repairs in the home. Someone close enough to know that their security system in the house wasn't working. Someone they knew fairly well for Russel to recognize the voice or the body size or perhaps the eyes of the killers.

Curious what others think of this theory. I do hope that cold case people look at this site for ideas.

 

[dotr]

Relentless: Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills chases a killer

In Putnam County, GA, everybody knows Sheriff Howard Sills, and Sills knows everybody—except who murdered an elderly couple on Lake Oconee last May.

www.atlantamagazine.com

BY JOE KOVAC JR. MAY 6, 2015
rbbm
''What he did not divulge was that the cut was remarkably clean. “It was not the skill of a surgeon,” he would say months later, but “whoever did it took time doing it.” It was as if the collar of Russ Dermond’s T-shirt had been used as a guide for a very sharp knife, the likes of which had not turned up.''

Sometimes you can bag all the blue jays and have little to show for it. He was convinced the Dermonds were not slain at random.

But why?

“Damn the why,” Sills boomed, imploring himself for answers.

“Get the evidence. Make the case . . . The why can be a significant, if not the most significant factor in determining the who, so you don’t ignore it. But let’s not dwell on the esoteric. Let’s dwell on putting this *advertiser censored* on the chain gang. Or better, put his *advertiser censored* in the electric chair. If God and the law give me the opportunity, I’m gonna send the son of to hell in my hand. I’ve gotten up every day of my life and asked God Almighty to give me the opportunity to hurl a hoodlum into hell. This son of a or sons of *advertiser censored* or *advertiser censored* need it, and they need it in the worst sort of way. And I hope the hell I can deliver it. Nothing would please me more.”

 

[Valiant]

I really hope they open this case again. Because I was just watching Mike's coverage of it on That Chapter and it was INSTANTLY obvious to me what probably happened. I'm sure someone else may have thought of this but just in case I'll post it here.

Some important clues. They both were killed right around the same time. She was removed from the house. The criminals were not professionals and were trying to do things to cover up the crime or avoid detection. (Taking the head to conceal the bullet, weighing her body down in a lake with cement blocks which any true crime novice knows won't work once the body decays.)

No other motive. Why the over the top mutilations? IMO it was a failed Kidnapping Ransom attempt that went catastrophic because Russell recognized the kidnappers. They had no choice but to kill him. That's why nothing in the house was taken. It switched gears from trying to get money out of them to cover up and get the heck out of dodge.


Shirley was in her day clothes he was in his pajamas. She got up early before him. The kidnappers take her from the house before he even wakes up. She's bundled out to the car and taken to another location. The kidnappers wear a disguise ski mask whatever. One of them then returns to the hosue later when Russell has woken up. They don't call, they don't email they just show up again with their burner cell phone in hand and let him talk to her on the other end of the phone. To prove they have her. They think not calling the house or sending emails or letters avoid evidence. So they show up in person. One's got Shirley the other is talking to Russell.

And he makes the terrible fatal error of trying to reason with the kidnapper by letting him know and his wife know that he knows who they are. Ex on the phone to Shirley "Honey, it's Tommy and his buddies, it's ok, I know we can stop this. "

The minute they realize he recognizes them and knows exactly who they are, they could have just stopped. But kidnapping is a felony that is a capital crime. They are all looking at Life in Prison. So they "had no choice" but to just kill both of them. They didn't bludgeon her because of rage. They honestly didn't expect to have to kill her. They thought they were going to collect on the ransom money and send her back. So they had to clumsily find a weapon, rock, crow bar to smash her with, the overkill was out of inexperience, not rage.

IMO it's someone they worked with or someone who did home repairs in the home. Someone close enough to know that their security system in the house wasn't working. Someone they knew fairly well for Russel to recognize the voice or the body size or perhaps the eyes of the killers.

Curious what others think of this theory. I do hope that cold case people look at this site for ideas.

i think the flaw with that scenario was that he had some of her hair clenched in his hand. So they weren't likely separated.

 

[s. simon]

I know one thing that solves this case, but it is way outside the box. What if the male victim of this case was misidentified ? No member of the family ever saw the body to my knowledge. The identification was based on fingerprints and two distinguishing body marks. Now I think the identification was based almost entirely on the two body marks Mr. Dermond had. First, a flattened little finger from the military and second from a knee scar from a quite common knee operation. Initially (before he found out about the military misshaped finger), the sheriff was quoted in the paper as believing the flat finger was caused by a vice. If one were seeking a body double it should not be difficult to find a homeless person with the same build who had the knee scar on the same leg.

So, now we come to the fingerprint identification, which compared the prints of the body with those of Mr. Dermond's military record when he was quite young. Two things bother me about the prints. They were taken from the body many days after death and Mr. Dermond was a lot heavier than when as a very young man he was in the military. Assuming you can reliably print somebody who has been dead for awhile, lets consider the weight issue. His fingers were the same length as when he was in the military but the distortion in the prints from weight would occur in the their width. The two sets would look different.

By the time the body prints were compared to the military record prints, law enforcement were understandably virtually certain that the body was that of Mr. Dermond because of the fit (his home) and the body marks. How hard would it have been to miss the print identification ?

And, if this happened, everything strange about this case from the missing head, the missing wife, the careful head removal and everything else undisturbed suddenly fits perfectly. Then the only question left was why did he do it ? The sheriff should do a DNA check, I think.

 

[Canaille]

DNA should’ve identified him. I can’t believe this case hasn’t been solved. I think they have a person of interest but are waiting for that person to slip up.

 

[MesquiteO21]

I know one thing that solves this case, but it is way outside the box. What if the male victim of this case was misidentified ? No member of the family ever saw the body to my knowledge. The identification was based on fingerprints and two distinguishing body marks. Now I think the identification was based almost entirely on the two body marks Mr. Dermond had. First, a flattened little finger from the military and second from a knee scar from a quite common knee operation. Initially (before he found out about the military misshaped finger), the sheriff was quoted in the paper as believing the flat finger was caused by a vice. If one were seeking a body double it should not be difficult to find a homeless person with the same build who had the knee scar on the same leg.

So, now we come to the fingerprint identification, which compared the prints of the body with those of Mr. Dermond's military record when he was quite young. Two things bother me about the prints. They were taken from the body many days after death and Mr. Dermond was a lot heavier than when as a very young man he was in the military. Assuming you can reliably print somebody who has been dead for awhile, lets consider the weight issue. His fingers were the same length as when he was in the military but the distortion in the prints from weight would occur in the their width. The two sets would look different.

By the time the body prints were compared to the military record prints, law enforcement were understandably virtually certain that the body was that of Mr. Dermond because of the fit (his home) and the body marks. How hard would it have been to miss the print identification ?

And, if this happened, everything strange about this case from the missing head, the missing wife, the careful head removal and everything else undisturbed suddenly fits perfectly. Then the only question left was why did he do it ? The sheriff should do a DNA check, I think.

my understanding of fingerprints, correct me if i'm wrong, is that they are so unique that gaining or losing weight wouldn't affect the overall print..? because when fingerprints are taken you flatten out the finger and move it from side to side which accounts for width. I imagine this is how the military takes fingerprints (don't know for sure) and could be easily replicated by LE/medical examiner.

 

[s. simon]

my understanding of fingerprints, correct me if i'm wrong, is that they are so unique that gaining or losing weight wouldn't affect the overall print..? because when fingerprints are taken you flatten out the finger and move it from side to side which accounts for width. I imagine this is how the military takes fingerprints (don't know for sure) and could be easily replicated by LE/medical examiner.

You are correct up to a point, and then you get it wrong. Just as the ring size of a fat finger must be larger than for that same finger when it was smaller, the roughly half circle resulting from printing the fat finger has a larger half circumference and will produce a wider print on flat paper than the smaller, slender finger print. Both will have the same height. By increasing the width of the print but leaving the height the same, two differing fingerprints result from the same finger, one for fat the other for slender.

 

[dotr]

It might take a bit of time, but in Othram's hands, things look hopeful!
May 26, 2023

 

[Cardinal47]

Had to take a look back to see if this one was ever solved. Sad that two senior citizens had to die this way.
Maybe time for that Cold Case tv show to show up here. Kelly is pretty good!

 

[keptbycats]

This is one of the cases that continues to haunt my mind. I sure hope to see it solved one day.

 

[STAGNUM]

This is one of the cases that continues to haunt my mind. I sure hope to see it solved one day.

Wow this case still never solved? The big mystery to me is why Sheriff Sills never involved GBI. This must be tenth anniversary coming up. I suppose the Sheriff will throw out some new evidence that is sure to solve the case.

 

[Vedder]

I really hope to see closure of this case! I hope Sills relents and brings in the GBI.

 

[vls12345]

Hey, they found some unknown dna. @othram is helping! I hope this is the breakthrough they need!

Son says he has ‘sliver of hope’ after best evidence in 10 years revealed in Lake Oconee killing

Someone shot and beheaded Russell and Shirley Dermond in 2014. Deputies have followed hundreds of leads, but they have all led nowhere.

www.wsbtv.com

 

[dotr]

Possible new clue emerges in long-unsolved Lake Oconee killings

The killings of Russell and Shirley Dermond, a Lake Oconee husband and wife, shocked the region in 2014.

www.ajc.com

''Sheriff Howard Sills, in February, hand-delivered several items of potential evidence to the lab. At least one of those items, a piece of clothing belonging to Russell Dermond, who was decapitated, was found to contain DNA from an unknown individual.
Sills told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that the discovery involved so-called “touch DNA” that could have been left by an assailant. “I don’t know that criminals at the time would have been concerned with touch DNA,” he said. The technique can detect miniscule samples of skin cells left on an item that has been casually touched.
The sheriff was quick to note, however, that no suspect has been identified and that further testing is underway.''